MovieChat Forums > Space: Above and Beyond (1995) Discussion > Did this series get better as it progres...

Did this series get better as it progressed?!?!


I remember watching this show, or at least several episodes, when it was on TV. I remember thinking it had great special effects and everything. Then again, I was 11. Nearly 13 years have passed.

I bought this series on dvd and was looking forward to taking a trip down memory lane, and after 4 episodes I am very much disappointed. I have issues.....

1. The acting. Very 2-dimensional and many lines feel forced and are cliches. James Morrison, however, was the bright spot and next to him Rodney Rowland's mysterious character (Hawkes), especially in episode 4 "Mutiny". Other than that, the acting mostly feels very wooden and shallow.

2. Lack of connection to half of the characters. I really don't care about Lt. West because all he does is yell and whine, and he has the same expression on his face every single episode. Wang and Damphousse are underused so far but maybe this changes later on?


3. Scientific errors. In space no one can hear you scream but apparently you can hear explosions. And the physics of the explosions are hardly believable, which leads me to:

4. The special effects. This is more forgivable due to the times, and it actually has gotten a few laughs out of me. Pretty funny.

Does it get better? In my opinion the only thing which nearly keeps this afloat is the story. I think watching Firefly ruined S:AAB for me.

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[deleted]

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I should preface this by saying that this was one of my favorite shows when I was a kid. As an older viewer - 21 - I picked up the DVD and have recently been rewatching the show.

I think this was a show ahead of its time, and I think it would've drawn serious viewers had it come out around 10 years later on sci-fi, instead of in the mid-90s on FOX.

With the exception of Dark Side of the Sun, the first five or six episodes are kind-of lackluster. They introduce the characters and play around with a few different senerios - new commanding officer, mutiny on a ship, that sort of thing. In my opinion, the show really gets going at the episode Hostile Visit. After that there are only a handful of episodes that I think didn't really work - but for the most part I think the show was consistently good.

"Come with me if you want to live!"

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Definitely stronger than most shows first seasons, hence the tragedy it was cancelled, but I'd agree that there were some so-so episodes, especially early on, until the actors and writers got into their stride.

In addition to Dark Side of the Sun, Ray Butts really worked for me in the first part of the season though.



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Asps. Very Dangerous. You Go First.
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I guess I have a different opinion. I didn't see any cheese watching the show.

One of the things I loved and still do about the show was that it was a dark and gritty. They didn't shy away from the brutal truths of war (as much as they could on network tv). It was messy at time and mistakes were made. They weren't perfect and things didn't always work out for them. They got scared and stupid and tried to do the best they could.

Sure some of the eps were better than others and some were almost weak but there isn't a single show out there who doesn't have a few weak eps in each season.

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I also remembered this show more fondly than the episodes I've watched so far. But this is only because it's butting heads in my mind with Battlestar Galactica. I just finished watching Season 3 on DVD recently and decided to buy S:AAB as I had also remembered it fondly. For its time, it was really good. Morrison was great. It bugs me now that Hawke's hair is so freaking long for the military, which I didn't even notice when I watched it back then! I loved that the cast was multi-ethnic with a strong female character (Shane); one didn't see much of that then. So far (I've watched the first 7 episodes) it's been hit and miss, but I do remember the Never No More episode which had a GREAT impact in me back then, so I'm hoping by the time I get to that one it will stand the test of time :). BSG is just so incredibly good that having watched that one right before going back to S:AAB made S:AAB seem like BSG's red-headed step-sister in terms of quality (it was too "clean," I like stuff realistically messy like BSG), and script (BSG has some really "tight" scripts that touch very realisically on human emotions) and has way more hits than misses.

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I'd say the show does get better by the Chiggy Von Richtoven two-parter. The writers seemed to shift the lead role away from Morgan Weisser's weeny of a character and onto James Morrison's and Kristen Cloke's characters. The writing and storytelling also gets a lot better -- it feels like it shifts from being a sci-fi series to a war series with sci-fi elements. Like most shows they seemed to finally find their rhythm midway through the first year. Unfortunately, by then no one was watching and Fox was trying its best to murder S:AAB by the constantly shifting schedule.

The F/X don't ever get better. Funny looking back ... when I was 14 and watching S:AAB I thought the F/X were fine for T.V., and now looking at it ... all I can think of is ... OMG, HALO looks better.

I think the main problem with S:AAB is that the new Battlestar Galactica took a lot of the elements I liked about S:AAB and made them better. The took all the things I disliked about S:AAB (and most other network sci-fi) and for the most part avoided them.

Larry M


"No More Pitching Tents For Us," Lost Planet

http://www.larrymadill.com/

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I think the main problem with S:AAB is that the new Battlestar Galactica took a lot of the elements I liked about S:AAB and made them better. The took all the things I disliked about S:AAB (and most other network sci-fi) and for the most part avoided them.

It's funny because I had watched S:AAB when it first came out and didn't get back to watching it again until after I had seen the first season of BSG. With just watched S:AAB again I started to watch the second season of BSG and found that at times it resembled S:AAB with S:AAB coming out the winner when I compared. That was when I didn't find the storylines of BSG laughable. I never got that BSG was 'real' unless it changed alot after I stopped watching. I didn't even finish the second season. I instead watched the S:AAB dvds one more time and moved on to watch other series. As for the FX being not as great. The show was made over ten years ago. FX have improved so much in the past year let alone twelve that you can't judge it's FX with anything that was made eight/ten or even twelve years after it was.

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I agree the first couple of seasons of BSG are good and comparable to S:AAB, but once they go more into revealing more about the cylons, it really takes away that mystery and the ominous presence of the enemy. And frankly kills the show for me.

But who knows that may have eventually happened to SAAB had the show continued, but I still think part of what made it great was that we knew so little about the enemy. I don't know I grew up watching SAAB so maybe there is a bit of nostalgia but I still think it's a great show with a great group of characters.

but there are a few rough spots, some episodes that are a little more difficult to watch, but if you get past that I really think as a whole it shines. My boyfriend who had never seen the show, tried to watch and didn't make it too far into the series though. Damnit, How can I get him to try again without coming off like a crazy person?


"That's it man. Game over man. GAME OVER!" ~Pvt. Hudson, Aliens.

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To put it in context, when SAAB came on TV, we still had 486s. Toy Story was sui generis. 3D Artist carried many articles on SAAB, featuring NewTek LightWave and other cutting edge tools running on Amigas. Yup.

As for Halo, Bungie had just released Marathon 2 when SAAB was on TV.

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But the Trek shows airing at the same time looked a lot better. It's not just the effects, either: the cinematography and lighting of the interior shots are really bad.

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My top 250: http://www.flickchart.com/Charts.aspx?user=SlackerInc&perpage=250

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Exactly, it's so awful I had a hard time to believe this is conidered "cult classic". I would have accepted VFX (even though some from 70s looks better) but the cinematography, set design, acting and even the story were all crude and/or shallow. Couldn't make it past first 2 episodes.

To be fair, I didn't particularly like BSG either but it was a much more polished show. My gripe with it was lack of depth in characters and somewhat clicheic, predictable patterns the storyline followed. Nevertheless, I watched around 6-8 episodes.

BTW, I used to have Amiga 4000 myself and watching those graphics made me think "that must have been rendered on Amiga". Not that it couldn't do better.


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Yeah but even BSG has had its weaker episodes... especially in Season 2.5 and a couple in 3... and I'm still not totally on board thinking what BSG is in its 4 and final season is what was intended... But anyway my point is that BSG still had some crap episodes in later seasons while SAAB ironed out its bugs early for the most part, so who's to say what might have been if it had stayed alive?

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I was watching the last few episodes recently because I found the disk at a video store that was closing. Just one disk, too. I thought 'This is really good show' I only watched it sporatically when it was on. The new Battlestar definently took some of the feel of it in terms of space fighting. Except SAAB uses more futuristic weapons, which makes better sense to me. Not a bad show at all.

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I have a similar experience I was roughly the same age when watching this show back when it came out and I have to say I loved it as a child. I mean it made a huge impression on me at that age. So naturally I bought the DVDs as soon as they came out. Watched them, and yeah they do start off a little rough around the edges during the first episodes but I really think by the end it gets so amazingly good...

I definitely have a deep seated love for a few episodes I think the first which definitely don't start till mid-way through the season. "Never No More" & "Angriest Angel" these were the Chiggy Von Richtoven episode are probably my favorite. As well as the last 3 episodes of the season "Sugar Dirt", "And If They Lay Us Down to Rest...""..Tell Our Moms We've Done Our Best." I think half of why I love this show was it was so dark and bleak. Not to mention the ending, with them knowing they were going to be canceled. It just keeps this show up there in my favorites.

I'm just wondering if my early exposure and love puts me in a biased position. I'm trying to show it to a friend right now, and I think he may not be taking to it. It's hard with the graphics being so out dated and those early episodes not being stellar. I just hope he'll continue to watch and not just decide to go with BSG instead... 'because I really do think SAAB is brilliant and want to share it.

"That's it man. Game over man. GAME OVER!" ~Pvt. Hudson, Aliens.

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I too was around 10 and 11 when I last saw this show. They Chiggy von richtoven episodes really made an impression on me "abandon all hope" or something like that on the chiggy ace's ship always send chills down my spine when I remember it. I have not gotten into BSG mainly because of this show. The aesthetics felt very similar and when BSG started airing I had no hope that it would last more than a season like SAAB. Now that it is getting a proper finale I might check out BSG, but I am a little bit cautious about revisiting this childhood series. I remember it fondly and with the advent of age and a little bit more wisdom I might not look fondly back upon it. The fx were mindblowing to me back in the day. I shudder at the horror in finding out how dated they look now.

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I'm rewatching the show now. I remember looking forward to it when it came out. I do not think the network messed it up like they did Firefly though. LIke previous posters have said the beginning episodes were very weak with very 2-dimensional characters. It did get a whole better as the series got along, epidsode 10 or so and on. It had lost it's viewers by then.

I really enjoyed seeing the development of Hawkes character the most and would have enjoyed seeing more on Morrison's character had they allowed the series to go further. I also liked Shane's strong character. Her, Hawkes and Morrison were the only believable "marines" on the show.

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Yes, I feel BSG is what SAAB could have been if it were allowed to continue beyond it's 2 season run on Fox. Also what killed SA:AB was the constant time slot changes due to NFL on Fox(which just started at that time). One time it was Friday, then Sunday, the moved into progress due to a playoff game or OT, or this, or that. By the time season two came around, people didn't know what to watch for anymore.

I thought it heated up when the Chigs were not so Alien as we were led to believe, and the whole conspiracy around Operation Roundhammer, ah well you guys know the rest :)

If you like BSG, then you'll love this...

In the words of the late Great Paul Wang:
"Come get some..ahhhhh"

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How does this show compare to Starhunter (both years)? I just watched the SAAB Pilot and was fairly disappointed. I loved the BSG Pilot and the first 2 years, but the 3rd year lost me a bit and I didn't stay with the 4th year.

I have recently viewed Odyssey 5 which I though was the Best! Then watched Earth 2 which was pretty good but not quite as good. I saw posted that SAAB and Starhunter would be recommended followups, now I'm not so sure.

Any suggestions?

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I remember watching this show as a kid on BBC2. It moved to Sky One and that was the last I saw of it. I remember it as kinda being the TV series to Star Ship Troopers (so similar!).

I picked up the box set to rekindle my youth and was horrified with the Pilot and the first few episodes. It felt so contrived, so cheesy, very tacky looking and dated in concept . It was a bit like watching the A-Team or KnightRidder now (just don’t! It will never be like how you remembered it)!

Then somewhere around the Ray Butts episode (or when they changed the format to make it more about Mc Queen) it completely changed. The acting got better, the story felt more mature, and some of the dog fights have been the best of any show. The characters were all strong and I forgot what a Dude TC McQueen was! (He’s probably the only man in SciFi who can kick Kirk’s ass!)

Have the last eppisode to watch.... don't want to though. Not because it’s bad but I don't want it to end and be stuck with the likes of ‘Craprica’ (god that’s truly terrible!) for my sci fi fix!

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Funny everybody is saying how bad the pilot was, because I really didn't mind it. Granted, it was a little cheesy in places (had sort of a Stephen King mini series feel), but it set a good tone. And I cannot believe that nobody has mentioned 'Who Monitors The Birds' as a fav episode. That was straight up brilliant, and along with 'Angriest Angel' the best episode the show had to offer.

...And BSG sucks sooo hard. Lamest *beep* show on Earth, right beside Firefly. Those ones are for the sci fi geeks alone

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Yes! I loved "Who Monitors The Birds"! Its funny a friend of mine was just going through and watching Buffy for the first time and he's a film/tv major. He was going on about how great the episode "Hush" was because early on the villains steal voices and no one speaks though the whole episode. But he was saying what an amazing feat that was and how he's so surprised a show would even try something that bold, etc, etc. And I was like oh yeah SAAB did that. :)

"That's it man. Game over man. GAME OVER!" ~Pvt. Hudson, Aliens.

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I caught it on Sky and missed a few episodes, but was delighted when BBC2 showed the whole thing.
You must have missed the time slots or something. It was on rather late for the first BBC run, with it's second BBC run being even later, but it definately aired on BBC2 only after it had already aired on Sky.

edit: oops, only now do i realise i'm replying to a year old post. ><

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[deleted]

It's pretty funny reading the posts of the former "kids" on this thread. For a longer perspective: concept-wise, basically all this thing is is a ripoff of Robert Heinlein's famous novel **Starship Troopers**; dramatically, an updated **12 O'Clock High** or **Combat** from the early- to mid-1960's, but set in a fantasy future rather than a fairly heavily romanticized past. It displays all the usual overdone melodrama characteristic of most war shows ever on TV coupled with the usual want of realism. Thus, if coming back to watch those old shows after I grew up (in the 1980's or 90's) made me cringe quite a bit, this is scarcely any worse. Probably the biggest issue I have (other than an even weaker-than-usual understanding of military culture) is the "gritty" treatment aboard ship. On real aircraft carriers (or submarines, or destroyers, or anything else) hardly anybody is expected work in the dark, regardless of how dramatic that might seem. It is much safer and more effective to work where you can see what you are doing. lol. And never mind the low tech look of what is supposed to be a high tech future.

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Yes, it gets better... MUCH better!!

I'd say that you have to give it some leeway as the series was just starting to establish itself in the first few eps and they clearly got more production budget and talent as both cast and crew all found their footing and direction.


1. The acting. Very 2-dimensional and many lines feel forced and are cliches.

Yeah, this one kinda quietly creeps up on you...
I was thinking the same as you, right up until the episode called Stay With The Dead. Suddenly, the guy playing Nathan West exploded into a pretty stunning actor and I was actually on the verge of tears myself during the scene where he's wheeled in and reunited with his wingmen. It was pretty stunning!

2. Lack of connection to half of the characters. I really don't care about Lt. West because all he does is yell and whine, and he has the same expression on his face every single episode.

As mentioned, he does stop harping on about his girlfriend and suddenly you realise he's pretty engaging.

Wang and Damphousse are underused so far but maybe this changes later on?

Wang certainly gets the limelight in some later eps and raises some real hell at one point.
Damn-fool has her own plot stuff, although I thought it was a bit of a 'lets give the token black girl a reason for being here' kind of cop-out cliche thing.


3. Scientific errors. In space no one can hear you scream but apparently you can hear explosions.

If you're in a ship, you don't hear the explosion that happens outside, no. However...
Firstly, no sound is pretty unexciting in a TV show/film.
Secondly, while you don't hear that, you will hear something when the shockwave hits your hull, along with rounds penetrating, air blasting out and so on.

Notice how the big ship-mounted machine guns sound quite bassy and heavily muted?
While you wouldn't hear the bang-bang-bang, you would hear and feel the vibrations as they go throughout your ship hull.

And the physics of the explosions are hardly believable, which leads me to:

I thought they were OK, IIRC... incendiary rounds penetrating a hull and igniting the internal atmosphere, blowing the ship up in a briefly flaring ball of flame, no?
Most of the other physics are fine, including having the thrusters countering and checking manoeuvres, flipping the ships around mid-thrust, etc. Fairly standard 6DOF Newtonian space flight stuff, really. There are some concessions, but only when the real-life version would be mind-numbingly boring to watch...

4. The special effects. This is more forgivable due to the times, and it actually has gotten a few laughs out of me. Pretty funny.

These always suffer.
At the time it was pretty unusual to get CGI in TV shows and this one clearly started out on a very low budget until they'd proven themselves. You can tell from the obvious Glock 17 sidearms with just light scope shrouds on to look 'a bit space-age'!


Stick with it and see how you go.
By the very end, I was desperate for more (especially Shane Vance) and still quietly hope this will get picked up one day.

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Here's some info on the effects:

Who produces the special effects for the show?
The special effects are done by a company called Area 51, who handles all the computer generated scenes (which, frankly, are spectacular).

Hardware/Software (from Area 51):
We use DEC alpha PC's, running at 275 mhz, along with Pentium 133's. Our primary rendering engine is Newtek's Lightwave, which we use to generate most of our images. We also use Photoshop to produce our custom texture maps, Elastic Reality, WinImages fx, and Fractal Painter. We preview our animations on a Perception board, and lay the final animation off to Exabyte tape for transfer to DCT tape for final editing. Most of our compositing is handled by Lightwave, but we find it faster and easier to comp our bluescreen cockpit shots at Varitel Video.

http://spaceaboveandbeyond.tv/saab-faq-01.html

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Back then a Pentium 133 was pretty snazzy kit...
These days my i5-3570K at 4.5GHz is considered pretty lame by most standards!!

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