isn't 'will and grace' almost exactly like 'ned and stacy'? man and woman living together, but not having sex, debra messing, stacy/grace almost the same characters, ned and will are alike as well, i think.
just wanted to share my thoughts
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So he doesn't have to be gay to have the show stem from this one.
Take saved by the bell for instnace...many characters and scenes and places that the scens were meant to be were changed when the show became saved by the bell...I forgot the show it originally came from.
And also another example is the show Charmed which came from The Craft.
Just becuase he isn't gay in Ned and stacey doesn't mean that the show couldn't have stemed from this show.
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yeah except its the same set...
Will and Grace is Ned and Stacey revamped because the ratings sucked
I disagree. Aside from two people of the opposite sex with absolutely no sexual interest in each other sharing an apartment, the two shows couldn't be further apart. Ned & Stacey were in a business relationship -- she needed an apartment that she could afford, he needed a wife so that the firm would promote him. It's somewhat different from the starting situation of Will & Grace -- two good friends sharing an apartment out of need, but actually liking each other (for the most part).
shareNed and Stacey is basically an early version of Will and Grace. There's no way it's coincidental. The producers of Will and Grace obviously liked Debra Messing in that role, and tweaked the concept just a little bit to come up with what turned out to be, commercially, a much more successful series. To say the two shows "couldn't be further apart" is ignoring the obvious. While they're not exactly the same show, one evolved from the other.
shareI agree. Their penthouse was set up almost exactly the same. Greg Germann, later of Ally McBeal, was the Sean Hayes-type neurotic and "a bit off" character.
Thomas Haden-Church was sarcastic, just like Will is, although not the same style of sarcasm.
Will and Grace, as well as Ned and Stacy, were both shows written around her perspective, with communications between a live-in man, and another male and female.
For those who forget, they were trying (at the time) to get a more 20 or 30-something female lead like Murphy Brown, but not as professional. They tried it multiple times with Tea Leoni, on multiple networks.
I've got to agree, it's definitely the prototype for Will and Grace and anyone who says otherwise is missing the glaringly obvious! I wasn't too kean on the show to start but it's growing on me as they're now showing it in the UK. Looking forward to seeing Sideways as Thomas Haden Chruch is fantastic! His dry humour is a slow burner but definitely grows on you :-)
shareI don't think you can compare the two shows because there is nothing like Karen and Jack in N&S.
And frankly I only watch the show for them. I really don't care for the two leads much.
As to Church's skills I couldn't agree more -- he has the obtuse, self-absorbed guy type absolutely nailed! I suppose Will and Grace owes a huge debt to Ned/Stacey, the same producers working the same story turf. I wish Ned and Stacey had stuck, but aside from poor ratings the story premise was on a collision course -- no one as resourceful as "Stacey" would hang in long while stating bluntly that she was getting out -- ergo Will/Grace were cast as lifetime...compadres. I really enjoy(ed) both shows, Eric McCormack has good timing and skills but cannot command a show like Church (and Messing/Mullally/Hayes, in my view).
shareConceptually, Ned & Stacy is an update of the 1966 show Occassional Wife in which a man at a baby food company gets a girl in his apartment building to pose as his wife so that he can get a promotion. Sound familiar?
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"the two shows couldn't be further apart"??
STFU
yea ned and stacey is JUST like will and grace except for the fact that ned and stacey is actually funny...and oh yea..ned and stacey doesnt SUCK!
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WHAT! "Mad About You" was a show about the interworkings of a marriage. It was about the little things that couples do. It was about what life is like in that situation. Two working adults in a relationship dealing with "can you walk the dog because i've got a meeting to get to..." and such. "Will & Grace" and "Ned and Stacey" are two shows that, although they had different stories, hold similaties and you cannot deny the fact that although they are not carbon copies "Ned and Stacey" was a concept peice that later grew and materialized into "Will & Grace". It is totally possible that they have nothing to do with each other (except DM). At the same time "Will & Grace" basically tweeked and used what they learned from "Ned and Stacey", what worked, what didn't, what kept people watching... stuff like that to create a show that could capture an audience and keep them there. So to go off and assume that it is being said that all shows where two people live in an aparment together are alike is not really paying attention to the topic at hand. The fact that it's two people living together isn't the choice topic. It is simply that the failures of "Ned and Stacey" brought on newer, fresher and more up to date show that has a hold of its veiwers. I'm not saying that "Ned and Stacey" was a bad show, simply that for its time it did not have what it needed to allow it to say on the air (either viewers or support from the production companies etc.). So in its downfall came the realization of what could possible work out and slowly it changed into a show that we now know as "Will & Grace".
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I think that they are similar, but having just watched the Ned & Stacey season 1 set, I have a few thoughts. The similarity is the thin (as admitted by Tom Church) plot giving way to wacky characters (and characterizations). I have only seen Will & Grace a few times, but it seems more of a "business" show, as NBC is into propping up their schedule on tentpole ratings-horses. S & G was another Fox lark that they quickly began waffling over, and abruptly abandoned to the USA network. To use the apt (and hacky) metaphor of prostitution, Fox is a regular john, but NBC is a Mr Whitefolks pimp, turning em out til they can't make no more.
The sad thing is; what could have made W & G interesting is what is being exploited for profits: i.e., the "gay twist." Will seems fairly well-developed, and his sexual preference is part of him, but not all of him. I suppose it's more subversive to have Jack flaming all over the place, prancing and preening; I bet it still sends my fellow straight men flying out to vacuum their cars. But from what I have seen, it's just hacky and pathetic. I think Eric Moyer from S & G would have made a far more realistic "funny gay" character. In any event, his performance is much more nuanced and original. Same with his wife in the show vs. Megan Mullaly. Oh wow, a bitchy hag character to queen it up with Jack. That's fresh and not the least bit insulting.
I guess I'm not the target audience for W & G, as I actually KNOW and LIKE gay people. I think it may be just a tool to get straight America cool with the fact that gay folks are not going anywhere, and they can be just as cool and funny, or just as annoying, as anyone. I just feel sorry for all of the gay guys who have to put up with whitebread chicks thinking they know all about gay men from W & G, like a Discovery Channel special on lions makes you cool with the ones at the zoo. Some kittens have claws.
Ok I can break this down much more easier here:
Ned and Stacy vs Will and Grace
Stacy is a lovable pathetic loser while Grace is an annoying twitch
Ned is actually hilarious with his deadpan sarcasm while Will is, hmmmm.....what's the word? NOT!
Eric is a tamed neurotic while Jack is an over the top neurotic
Amanda has the best lines and so does Karen but once karen is wat over the top.
Therefore Ned and Stacey much funnier and better than Will and Grace.
In some ways there are similarities, no question, but I would not go as far as to say they're alike.
Ned and Will alike??? Are you serious? Ned's a fierce, competitive corporate shark in an ad agency. Will's.....foofy.
Ned would deliver these one line zingers with impeccable deadpan perfection. His sarcasm/one liners becomed him. Will is all.....foofy.
But seriously, Will would have one liners, but they didn't have the bite to it that Ned's had....Not to mention different delivery styles. Answer me this: Can you imagine Ned swishing his hands and hips around like Will does when he cracks a one liner?? I didn't think so.
The similarities between Grace and Stacey however cannot be denied. When I first saw W&G, that was coincidentally the first thought that came to mind "OMG, She's playing Stacey but on a different show". Shows you her RANGE AS AN ACTRESS I guess. I suppose it's no secret that I'm NOT a Debra Messing fan. Both characters are LOUD, grating, neurotic and "organizationally challenged"...Aw hell, SLOBS!! I felt on N&S that Thomas Haden Church was her saving grace (oops, didn't mean to make a pun!)
Speaking of pun, have you ever seen the episode on conan o brien where he had a character called Captain PUNishment?? Somebody would crack a lame pun and Captain Punishment would leap in from out of nowhere and start kicking the living crap out of the offender?? (Now that's a pun I actually LIKE!!) Then Conan would bring up the fact that the hero's name IS in fact A PUN...Cap. Pun. would then have a look of horror, then self-destruct *LMAO* Just remembering that makes me....*LMAO* And guess WHO played captain punishment? Guess....
Give up? It was Greg Germann who played Eric in none other than our Ned & Stacey! How about that...
Also she played characters that have "ace" in their names in both shows. Thomas Hayden Church was in Wings with Steven Webber who guest starred in Will and Grace as Will's brother. Just to keep crazy connections going, Steven Weber and Tim Daly (brothers on Wings) both played in Steven King TV movies. Tim was in Storm of the Century and Steve was in The Shining, Desperation and apparently will be in "Nightmares and Dreamscapes: From the Stories of Stephen King".
shareAnyone ever notice that on the will and grace pilot, debra messing says, "c'mon who would marry someone just for his apartment?!"
It was a tribute to her time on ned and stacey and I thought it was really funny!
That's how I remembered that Debra Messing was Stacey. I was racking my mind trying to figure where I saw her before. Then she said that line....
shareyes. will and grace is totally based off of ned and stacey.
shareI saw this show for the first time last night, and I could not believe how similar it was to Will and Grace. It's like a less funny, less edgey, less camp version of Will and Grace. Stacey just reminds me of a cross between Grace and Monica from series one of friends, and her relationship with Ned is similar to Grace's with Will, and come on, Will is hardly dissimilar to Ned. Plus, even though I didn't find it as funny as W&G, a lot of the jokes and situations I could really picture in Will and Grace.
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See, I think N&S was funnier and better than W&G. I think Thomas Hayden Church is a much better actor than Eric McCormack. I liked the character of Ned better than Will.
shareMaybe but the big difference between the shows is that Ned And Stacey was actually good compared to the Will and Grace crap.
shareFor some reason, I much preferred Messing on Ned&Stacey. Maybe because her character here seemed tougher and sexier than Grace. Plus, there was the actual possibility of Ned and Stacey ending up together as that was impossible for Will and Grace.
Generally, Ned and Stacey was, IMHO, more biting and grounded than Will and Grace, which was rather outlandish. Thomas Haden Church was the wild card, at times, over-the-top character, but he was just so hilarious, I could take his schtick. Plus, it was nice to see him play someone that had a brain, unlike Lowell on Wings. Eric McCormack is a terrific actor (I've seen him in several things prior to and since Will&Grace), but Will was a bit TOO reserved for me. Ned was just a lot funnier.
Comparing the supporting characters between the 2 shows, Eric and Amanda were more down-to-earth, inertly funny characters who didn't have to resort to antics to get laughs. Jack and Karen went nuts way too often!