Hey, after watching this I'm very curious as to what happened to Captain Call's ranch that he was set up on after the end of Return To LD?? Or is this part of that no-continuity thing since Return wasn't written by the same guy? If so, it's really strange. It's like we just have to completely ignore that whole movie. Kinda odd, but I liked them both.
share<*****spoiler******>
return is not part of the series.in the book streets of laredo it mentions that after Call took Gus's body back at the end of LD the went back to montana
and found out newt had died. The "hellbitch" grey mare woodrow gave him fliped over backward and killed him. one would assume that he freaked out and moved back to texas. "streets" takes place about 20-25 years after lonesome dove.
I always liked Rtld better than sol and is a great film and consider it a better sequel i do like sol but rtld was just better in my view writen by mcmurtey or not i consider it a part of the saga.
shareI think the ranch broke up and was sold off after Newt was killed. Claire, Gus' old flame in Nebraska also died in a horse accident, but I can't remember at what time that happened in SOL. I ordered return to Lonesome Dove, but I can't imagine it is better than SOL. I like it just as much as Lonesome Dove.
Also, in the book Capt. Call lost an arm as well as his leg, and was quite ornery to everyone after that except the little beloved Mexican blind girl. WHERE'S THE LAW NOW!!??!!-Burt Reynolds; Deliverance.
I feel the same way - RLD is so fantastic, it seems like Mcmurtery of course wasn't pleased w/RLD - I don't like Streets at all, esp Newt the way he died. its like mcmurtey was so pissed he had to ruin it and kill off Newt. Rumors are that he never wanted Call to claim Newt as his biological son. He goes and kills one of the best characters of the series... of course Gus was my fave as well as Newt, and always Call as well; I think Jon Voight did a great job as Call; Tommy Lee Jones was just so freaking awesome, but he's always like that in his movies..Garner wasn't too bad either but, if I put them in order it would be
1 Tommy Lee Jones
2 Jon Voight
3 James Garner
** I don't care if RLD wasn't part of the "original series", I still think it was a great movie w/a great cast.
I didn't like how Lorena bad mouthed Call like she did, I mean it was like hearing Clare talk about him in the first one. Call NEVER did Loren anything for her to speak so ill about him, but I guess listening to Clare all those years she jumped on the "I hate Captain Call" bandwagon. Sissy is fantastic don't get me wrong - just didn't like the character of Loren in this series.
After reading a ton of reviews on the Lonesome Dove series ( yes- even Return to LD ) ,- this review is by far my favorite . I had to double check who wrote it cause I thought I did . --- Anyway ---- COULD NOT AGREE MORE !!! I think a lot of people hated 'Return' because they want to defend Larry McMurtry . -- Well that is bogus !! -- 'Return' actually was more pleasing to the eye and mind . I did not want to even pause the dvd to go to the bathroom . I had the same feeling watching that as i did with the original . Just captivated ( well-- almost as much ) . ---- Compared to 'SOL' ??? Well that film just made me sick !! On every level !! -- First and foremost , Newt is dead ?!?! Come on !!--- And Lori married Pea-Eye ???? What !?!?! --- And don'r get me started on the 9th grade villain !!! You gotta be kidding me !! ------- Just awful ! --- I really feel like LM ripped us off !! Did he do that because of' Return' ? Did he intentionally want to destroy the series by that God-awful ending ??? i just don't get it !! ---- And what i don't understand most of all , is all the phonies out there who say they hated 'Return' and loved 'SOL' ! How is that even possible ??? --- You are right on !! That Capt. Call list is dead on . Tommy Lee was just magical ! Next up was definitely Voight ( even though I do like James Garner more ) . --- When they did the casting for 'SOL' , James Garner was probably like .... " Seriously ?? Who else is going to star in this film next to me ?? Sissy Spacek ???? But what about those rough and rugged cowboys who fear nothing ??? - Oh ! There was no casting for such characters ?? Oh well -- I'm getting paid no matter " . --- Anyway -- enjoyed your review . Thanx .
share "streets" takes place about 20-25 years after lonesome dove. I don't think it was that long, but it has been years since I read the book.... I believe it was more like 12 to 15 years later at the most. Call was well into his fifties during Lonesome Dove, so he would have been almost eighty if it happened 25 years later.
Law? WHERE'S THE LAW NOW!!??!!-Burt Reynolds; Deliverance.
actually in Sol book, McMurtrey says takes place twenty years after events of Lonesome Dove, and Call was edging Seventy is what it said, as For rtld, i love that film even though many consider it copying LD too much, i don't care all that much, its a worthy sequel and consider it true sequel to LD and Sol sequel to rtld, don't get me wrong, Sol is a very great film (Miniseries) and is a worthy sucessor, but i just like rtld better, maybe it's just me, but i thought Walker was very memorable, and there was a Walker in Lonesome Dove book whm was close Ranger buddies with Gus and Call. by the way i thought it weird in Sol How Pea Eye ended u being the hero, not that i like cliches where Main hero kicks ass in end, just thought Call might have at least nicked or wounded Garza instead of Pea Eye doing it, and i hated Lorena in this one.
shareyeah the book Streets of Laredo is terrible. He kills off Newt, Lorena marries Pea Eye and he says in the first few pages that everything that happened in LD was a dumd mistake. Then he kills off a historical person in a fictional way and lets another historical person live when he dies in real life.
It doesnt make any sense. Better to just read LD than the sequels, and watch the movies for entertainment purposes only, as they dont mesh as one story.
to me they do mesh as one story thats how i like to view it, but since sol movie never says newt dying off and nothing bout ranch i just consider newt alive and rtld canoical its a great series just hated sol book.
shareWell McMurtry contradicts himself over and over in the series. In Lonesome Dove, Gus and Jake were rivals for Clara's love, but in Comanche Moon, Jake never meets Clara, and he rivals Call for Maggie. If you try to work out their ages throughout the series it doesnt work either, unless Call is in his 80s by Streets of Laredo. Charles Goodnight appears in Dead Mans Walk at the age of 5, yet is an adult leading men. John Wesley Hardin lives for several years more than he did in real life, Judge Roy Bean is killed by a fictional character.
In Lonesome Dove, Jake spends a great deal of time riding with Gus and Call, yet is barely with them in Comanche Moon. Blue Duck tells Call he rode all over his territory, and Call never saw him, yet Call shoots him in Comanche Moon, of course, since Blue Duck wasnt born in Dead Mans Walk he's scouting and attacking Gus and Call as a ten year old at the most in Comanche Moon, yet its written like hes an adult.
So really as novels, they're all pretty good, with Lonesome Dove vastly superior, they just dont mesh as one story because of all the inconsistencies.
The movies work ok though, because there's less detail, and they never kill Newt in the movies, he goes on to star in two separate Lonesome Dove series.
I like to view all 5 movies and 2 series together.
i try to ignore all those mess ups of McMurtry's i like to read the novels every now and then, but you're right the movies are better and can be better mushed as one story the five movies and the two tv series, although i just begun watching two tv series. pretty good so far.
shareWow, you're right, there is a lot of inconsistency in the stories I guess. One thing I do have to applaud McMurty for, though: he sure isn't afraid to make the *beep* hit the fan and have main characters die or have bad stuff happen to them. So it always keeps you guessing. I think that's a very good thing.
shareyea he definatly does not habe a problem killing heroes off, i still dislike what he done to woodrow in sol without woodrow even putting up a fight really.
shareThere are inconsistencies with the time frame, but the ages mesh fairly well, I think. Keep in mind, McMurtry changes whatever he wants about the facts of a historical character or event...because it's fiction, and that's his privilege.
Call is in his very late 60s, or possibly 70, in Streets of Laredo. This would put him at about 50 in Lonesome Dove, early 20s in Dead Man's Walk, and early 30s to late 30s in Comanche Moon. Goodnight is about ten years older in McMurtry's West than in real life (closer to Call's age). Hardin's and Bean's fates change for story purposes. Comanche Moon doesn't cover every single aspect of their lives as Texas Rangers--there are plenty of jumps in time that would allow for Jake's involvement.
As for Blue Duck, I don't remember any mention of him in Dead Man's Walk, but that doesn't mean he wasn't already alive. He's about late teens or early 20s at the beginning of Comanche Moon. Also, I believe Blue Duck said to Call "You never got a good look at me until today," meaning he never saw him up close, face to face. When they encountered him, he was quite a distance away.
Still, there are definitely inconsistencies, particularly in small details, but I'm willing to overlook them (or put them up to characters' interpretations) because each novel--and the overall story--is superb.
current;y working through the Franchise on DVD started with DMW, then CM, then LD... just finished chapter two of RtLD as I Post this
Blue Duck appeared in CM, identifying him as the son of Buffalo Hump... who was the Primary Antagonist in DMW. (but I do not recall any mention of Blue Duck in DMW)
-- also LD clearly established Blue Duck Dying (by jumping out a Jail window as he was to led to the Gallows) right in front of Call... so unless his appearance in SoL is a Flashback/vision McMurtry is even contradicting his own 'Canon'
-- not to mention several glaring flaws which become obvious watching CM and LD in order like Gus' Burial site is only ever shown in CM when Clara comes to visit in Chapter 3 (9-10 years Pre-LD)... yet in LD she cites not seeing him in 15? years which would be more around the time in CM Ch.2 when she finds out he helped Inez Scull 'rearrange the Furniture" I'm also pretty sure the actresses cast as Clara's daughters in CM Ch3 are not age appropriate to A. have been born after she left TX with Bob Allen in Ch.2 and B. jive with the actresses used in LD/RtLD set 10 years after CM ch.3
One flaw i'm seeing in all of them so far is the passage of time within a movie's time line... clearly each film itself covers 2 plus years of events (not counting CM's flash forward of 7 years) yet some things are implied to happen a week or two appart and then the next scene is 6 months later and there is no clear cue as to how much time has passed until half way into the scene when some one will casually drop a "but that was X months ago"
SPOILERS....In the book, it is stated that by his own admission, Call lost the ranch because he was not a good businessman.I also remember reading that after the succcess of LD, the network insisted on a sequel right then..McMurtry told them he was working on one but it would take a while..Since the network temporarily had the rights to the characters,they had their writers write RTLD. This pissed the author off and that is the reason he changed some of the characters so his book would not be associated with RTLD..thereby resulting in the deaths of, Newt, Clara and July Johnson...
shareFrom What I remember. and it's been years snce I read the books.
DEAD MAN'S WALK- Call meets McCrae for the first time both are still in their teens or coming out of their teens. When they join the Texas Rangers.
COMANCHE MOON- The story skips ahead quite a bit Call and McCrae are in thier late thirties early forties.
LONESOME DOVE- both men are well in their 50's maybe their mid 50's
STREETS OF LAREDO_ Call is edging towards 80 as Streets takes place 25 years after Lonesome dove.
Call lost his Ranch after Newt Died. He never paid too much attention to it and wasn't a good businessman. it was after that he went into Bounty hunting.
The TV Series that followed are not canon. In these Newt Takes Call's last name ? Newt Call. However in LONESOME DOVE he says he is kin to nobody after Call tries to tell him he is his father.
Return to Lonesome Dove was not bad. But Voight made the worst Call. Return only made me wish Jones had reprised the role.