MovieChat Forums > When a Man Loves a Woman (1994) Discussion > Those endearing movies sure seem differe...

Those endearing movies sure seem different when....


It's amazing to me as to how my interpretations of movies I saw as a teenager and/or young adult sure appear quite different now that I'm an older MUCH MORE enlightened female. I remember the first several times I saw this movie, how much contempt I felt towards Meg Ryan's role. (How could she treat Andy ((my future husband)) so cruelly???) Much in the same way that John Travolta appeared to me as heroic in Urban Cowboy.

Now, as I sit back and watch, with my much more enlightened mind, I see how foolish I was not to see through the obvious subjugated roles the female characters were playing. As much in love I still am with Andy Garcia, "I want to crawl out of my skin..." when I witness the condescending manner in which his character treats his wife. Same thing for John Travolta's role, only I'm not in love with him.

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[deleted]

Ok, I guess I am the man here defending Andy's character

1- Can you imagine finding a guy like this? he's there no matter what and he's always saying "we'll figure it out" I don't about other guys but I would probably be running for the door

2- He's probably not a perfect man, but he's there and he does whatever needs to be done to keep things in place (including his daughters)

3- The biggest point the movie tries to make, he loves her no matter what! even if she's the mess of a person you see at the beginning of the movie. And after she gets "better" he still says "I love my wife and I miss her so much" now, go and find a guy like that and complaint about it

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I'm going to lend a little support here with your opinion but with some caveats. I think the problem is that the husband's inclination to be the rock in the relationship can only work with someone who is healthy. When an addict and a rock get together, the classic co-dependent dance can develop. I.e. - the rock becomes as dependent on the addict to define his/her identity as the addict can be on the rock to remain dysfunctional. For a partner who is whole, the kind of support Garcia's character offers is a dream - if it does not smother.

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Since your post is from way back in July, I'm probably writing something nobody will ever see, but I got so excited when I read this I have to get it out anyway.
I absolutely agree with your experience, but with a twist. I watched this first in '95, and found it entertaining, and having been in a situation involving step children, I identified with it a little, BUT, I watched it again last week, and what an incredibly different impact it had on me. I'm working my way through a two-year addiction to drugs, and let me tell you that much of that part of this story was written by somebody who had been there, either as the addict, or the enabler, or both. I've watched a lot of movies in the past year having to do with alcoholism or addiction (sort of a morbid fascination) and I think this is one of the best, if not the best, portrayal I've seen about what it does to an otherwise "normal" family. I sat in front of the screen almost in a state of shock watching the last few years of my life, and wondering how in the hell I could have forgotten this movie that first time I decided some pills would make everything better.

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"I'm probably writing something nobody will ever see"

i saw it.

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"I've watched a lot of movies in the past year having to do with alcoholism or addiction (sort of a morbid fascination) and I think this is one of the best"

I agree, I also like to watch movies about alcoholism, just curious as to what anyone had to say about some of the best movies dealing with the subject or had any recommendations. I guess my personal favorites are kind of on the suicidal side of drinking, specifically Leaving Las Vegas and Bad Santa. Also, I kind of would like to see a movie about someone dealing with alcohol on a "functional" basis but still able to go to work every day and not do anything too over the top, I thought Meg Ryan's character was even a little on the extreme side of my image of a "typical" alcoholic if there is such a thing.

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Well... I think it's not condescending. He only tries to help his wife and it's the only way he knows to help her. I understand her too... she wants to feel useful.

I just watched the film yesterday and it's one of my favourite films.

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He's having a tough time not being the guy who gets everything done and makes everything right and in a sense he thrived on that ... now the marriage is all different and the regular roles don't hold anymore. I see both sides of it ... I agree with the original post in that the first time I saw this when I was 19 I was all for Andy and against Meg, then life taught me some things and I see the ways each of them contributed to many aspects of the marriage/relationship in bad ways.

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"then life taught me some things and I see the ways each of them contributed to many aspects of the marriage/relationship in bad ways"
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I agree with you here, I watched this last night and my girlfriend kept saying "I can totally see why meg is angry". This annoyed me because I don't think the movie is about who is in the right and who is in the wrong. It is about the way that alcoholisim can effect marriages/families/relationships. As I come from a family that was split because of alcohol I can relate to this more than some people. And I can say that this film does a retty good depiction of what aclohol can do to the previously mentioned relationships.

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Thats right, I never felt sorry for Meg Ryans character. She was a drunk who hit her kid, drank away what little money she made at the school. She almost made her husband lose his job(it was his salary that paid for the house in San Francisco, not hers). When she gets cleaned up, she starts to treat him like crap and some of you people feel sorry for her???

Give me a break.

So what, Andy treats her in a condescending way once(when she was hung way over, BTW) and that makes him a horrible person??

Looking back on it, he should of dumped her ass while she was in rehab and got out while he could. But no, he didn't he stood by his drunk abusive wife and the kids.

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I can't believe some people get upset because Garcia's character may have been a bit condescending the odd couple of times. I think he had every right, and if that was his worst fault - and why the opening poster now feels the need to side with the abusive alcoholic mother - it seems very strange.

"We're making a film here, not a movie."

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Thats right, I never felt sorry for Meg Ryans character. She was a drunk who hit her kid, drank away what little money she made at the school. She almost made her husband lose his job(it was his salary that paid for the house in San Francisco, not hers). When she gets cleaned up, she starts to treat him like crap and some of you people feel sorry for her???


She goes to extremes like that because the movie's making the point that this is what alcoholism can do to some people.

If all a loved one did in that situation is 'bail', as you suggest, then there would be fewer people managing to get themselves better.







You got what you wanted, you got inside my head. Not so much fun now, is it?

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I'm not suggesting he should have bailed on Alice(Meg Ryan), well maybe I was. But what really ticked me off was the # of posts defending Alice's actions and ripping on Andy Garcia's character. His character did everything he could to make it work, but she made it difficult. And I guarantee you if this were real life, if Meg's character would have divorced him, she would have got custody of the kids, the house and 1/2 of his income. That is F'd up!!

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She goes to extremes like that because the movie's making the point that this is what alcoholism can do to some people.

Having watched my dad be an alcoholic for 30 years, I often hate when films portray alcoholics this way.
Alcohol is not a demon, not a possessing ghost. Its merely a beverage.
Yes it causes chemical changes (hence being drunk) but the bottom line is:

Alcohol does not make ANYONE do anything they would not do if they were sober!

It merely loosens the normal protective and/or common sense parts of the brain...
it makes it EASIER to do it.

This film shows us this: Alice is an even bigger bitch when she is sober.
No she's not smacking her daughter, but she is almost as abusive & selfish as before.




I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.

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If it makes it 'easier' to do it, then by definition, that means it's more likely to be done... I respect the fact that it was not this way for your father, but everyone is different, so yes... alcohol does make SOME people do things they would not do sober (keyword: "some", as I used in my original post... not ALL).

No-one has said it is a 'demon', or a ghost... but it CAN change your behaviour and reactions, making outcomes unpredictable.






"Your mother puts license plates in your underwear? How do you sit?!"

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I respect your opinion, and I also realized I omitted an important comment above:
My dad, unfortunately, was not a *good* drunk either. He was horridly cruel often.

He decided to become sober at last, about 14 years ago. More out of necessity than desire (health), but that's another matter.
Even he doesn't really believe that alcohol changes people. He put it in a strange, scary way: 'It sets the bad things free'.

Meaning the things you might entertain only in your mind (such as slapping your annoying sister-in-law haha) you might well do if drunk enough.
Its not the alcohol MAKING you do it, its merely lowering your resistance to your actions.

Or when people have sex with someone they barely know, yet are attracted to, while very drunk. The alcohol, again, merely lowered their inhibitions.




I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.

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Agreed, but alcohol is still the agent that allows this recklessness to occur.

If you have bad thoughts but never act on them because self-control is sufficient to keep you in line, then you might as well never have had them at all... Actions are what matter, not passing impulses.






"Your mother puts license plates in your underwear? How do you sit?!"

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I was surprised by how much I liked this movie because I usually don't like Meg Ryan and was put off by the subject matter. But I thought it was an extremely sensitive and intelligent portrayal of their relationship (with maybe some cliche moments during the therapy/AA scenes but maybe even that is accurate). Given some of the nasty comments here, I'm even more impressed by the value of this movie.

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I dislike neither Micheal (Andy Garcia) nor Alice (Meg Ryan) in this film honestly...
Their relationship had numerous problems, just as any other relationship does, although granted these issues may be more serious than many of you out there are facing. Also both persons equally had a number of character faults just as I know we all do.
It's obvious from the wedding video shown in the beginning of the film that their relationship was amazing at the start...eventually though problems erupted and things became bad between the two. Still though throughout this film no matter what I never doubted that they loved one another...the question was was there relationship going to be able to overcome these obstacles?
Alice: Her drinking did indeed play a large role in their problems overall for obvious reasons, still though in the end I don't hate her. I don't hate her for being an alcoholic. Yes I know she did some very horrible things as a resule of her alcoholism...that's a part of the disease though. I never once doubted that she really was a good person sober or that she loved her children. Her alcoholism was something that just snow-balled into something so huge that it interfered with her entire life. Her recovery was very real in the film, it shows a lot of truth in how difficult it is to overcome this disease. It showed the problems that then resulted during her recovery...things that all the while needed to be dealt with were now being put the spotlight on. In the end when she made her final speech I would definitely characterize her as being strong.
Micheal: He was beyond frustrated for very obvious and understandable reasons...he was of course angry. Who wouldn't be. His consistant need or desire to "fix" things is just a personality trait that isn't always a great one to have...for him he probably had grown up being the one who fixed things for everyone and with Alice and the kids it was the same. He was the one who did it all...Unfortunately like in real life sometimes he wasn't able to understand what it meant for Alice to be an alcoholic...maybe he wasn't prepared for that realization. Who is. Still though he was the one who got her into a rehab right away remember and was going to stick by her no matter what. He just didn't understand what being an alcoholic meant...no one had ever prepared him for that. His character indeed have various faults that also needeed to be dealt with but I never wavered from the fact that he loved Alice and their two children more than anything else in the world. He was a man who cared for his family, a strong man who wanted nothing more than for the ones he loved to most to be happy, healthy, and safe. His world was torn apart for a bit, thus tearing him apart...his was able to save it all in the end though.
The Alice and Micheal relationship for me is what this movie is about...it is about a real relationship that is facing a real challenge that people face in real life though they wish they didn't. This movie showed how raw and intense things can become and how ugly the words said and the things done are sometimes. The fact that Alice and Micheal's relationship is able to go through her alcoholism, her time in rehab, her recovery, their seperation, and yet still able to withstand all of that...that is when you know for sure that they are going to make it. Their relationship won't be perfect, but hey...what relationship is!

Kayla_18


Cold Mountain~ Inman: "I...came...back."

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What an overtly feminist view of his character and this film. Michael was a good man, and it seems that no matter what men do, we are wrong. If we're nice, protective, and accommodating of women, we're chauvinistic, condescending jerks. If we don't care and are apathetic, we're insensitive, selfish jerks. Joy.

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I agree completely. That post was written like 7 years ago, but its still BS, no doubt written by a woman's studies major.

If anything Michael is the hero, Alice gets out of rehab and goes into super-bitch mode, chain-smoking, feeling sorry for herself and using Michael as her punching bag. I think in real life Micheal would have and should have left her. In reality, there are no happy endings for Alice-types.

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I'm a woman, and I agree w/you both. Michael was a good man! Alice was a bitch who deserved to get dumped. I have the same opinion about this movie at the ripe old age of 32 that I did at 15 or whenever I saw this movie.

Alice was a bitch. She didn't deserve Michael and certainly didn't appreciate him.

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Yeah, The opinions of "Enilghtened" women like the OP are truely warped, hurtful and come out of Women's Studies programs at our Nation's Colleges and Universities. No wonder new college graduates can't find jobs. Way too much fluff and useless nonsense being taught these days.

The OP is so brain washed, she completely misses the crux of the film which is that Alice IS the one and only problem. Michael's character is specifically written to be almost saintly, yet the OP still see's him as the problem. Its a real head scratcher. In real life women like Alice end up lonely and miserable.

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"Those endearing movies sure seem different when...."

When WHAT?!? Finish your sentence you feckin' moron.

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