MovieChat Forums > When a Man Loves a Woman (1994) Discussion > This movie reads like one LONG ad for A....

This movie reads like one LONG ad for A.A.


I get that some people really need to stop drinking, really. But this movie reads like one extremely long ad for Alcoholics Anonymous. Not saying A.A. is bad, for some people it really is the only way...Both slow and increasingly heavy-handed as it plods along, this movie is not stellar in my book. I love the actors; Meg Ryan is always stellar--she's a great actress--but, BUT, the viewer can tell that she has never had a problem with substance abuse (although she acts it well). Andy Garcia is always great as well, and convincing; the two play off one another well. A very young and talented Tina Majorino shines as well. But the script, co-written by Al Franken (sadly, as I like Al Franken), is ultimately slow. Most audiences do not wish to be preached to. If A.A. wasn't a non-profit organization, i would swear they were making money off this. I think that the user rating of 6.2 is well-deserved, for better or worse.

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I'm not trying to flame here, but as a person who works in the field of addiction recovery, a person surrounded by afflicted family members (some in recovery and some not), friends and a host of codependent people, not to mention suffering from the disease myself, this post is ENTIRELY IGNORANT.
Quite obviously, the writer here does not understand the dynamics of an alcoholic/codependent relationship, let alone the damage that the disease does to the family as individuals and a whole. The writer also does not understand Alcoholics Anonymous. Sorry, but you didn't see the movie for what it really is, which is not an advertisement for AA. In fact, it only mentions the program a handful of times. The movie has only one scene inside an AA meeting. AlAnon is shown more. The Movie IS a study of the disease from multiple angles - that of the alcoholic, the codependent husband and the children caught in the middle. If anything, it leaves scenes with things hinted at and to the unknowing viewer, such as our friend above, they might not get it from having the good fortune of not being touched by the disease in one form or another. Lucky you, buddy. Each scene actually speaks volumes by what they elude to. This movie is probably the single best film ever made about alcoholism. It takes its time and touches on so many aspects and nuances of what the disease does. This disease is a complicated one, that is very clearly understood by its writers, including Senator Franken. Our friend above clearly does not understand by saying "I get that some people really need to stop drinking" - it's like saying "I get that a diabetic can't have sweets 'cause it's bad for them." Alcoholism destroys families, marriages, and KILLS people. The film is brilliant, the screenplay is inspired and the treatment is outstanding. It is misunderstood, and that's okay. It's not for everyone, but for everyone who has been touched by this disease.

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When I saw the title for this post, I couldn't believe my eyes, and I would have to concour with "brothynn" that the O/P was COMPLETELY IGNORANT.

In a nutshell, it is about co-dependency - relationships between (in this film) alchoholics and their families, both spouses and their children...

'nuf said

et tu Brute!

Locked my wire coat-hanger in the car - good thing that I always carry spare keys in my pocket :)

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[deleted]

Ha! The woman who founded an alternative for AA, Audrey Kishline, was imprisoned for drunk driving and killing a father and daughter. AA had nothing to do with this movie ... the writers incorporated it into the movie. If you read the AA traditions, they do not allow press, radio or other media to promote them ... it's a program based on attraction ~ not promotion.

_____________________________
What??!!

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It's not ad advertisement for AA. We've established that. One scene inside a meeting. That's it. The movie is not about AA but about the disease of alcohol. It makes as much sense to say that it is an ad for AA as it does to mention Audrey Kishline. There were a whole bunch of peer support meetings that started around that time. A lot of them failed.
You are right about one thing: AA stays out of the public spotlight completely. Yes, says it right there.

But if you want to talk about important woman in the 12 Step Movement, how about Bill Wilson's wife, Lois, the founder of AlAnon. Not all people shine, but some find their purpose and make a lasting impression on the world.

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But if you want to talk about important woman in the 12 Step Movement, how about Bill Wilson's wife, Lois, the founder of AlAnon. Not all people shine, but some find their purpose and make a lasting impression on the world.


Lois Wilson was a true angel on earth.


_____________________________
What??!!

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[deleted]

I know this is a very late reply but I saw this after watching the film tonight. I hope all has gone well for you and well done on how far you have come! My Father is currently 36 years sober thanks to AA. All the best to you Lurkerdog x

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Not only is it an ad for AA and the 12-step program, but it shows why the program fails more often than not. Actually at hte time this was made, all 30 day rehab places used the AA method strictly, so they DID profit off this. Thankfully, this is now being realized and their are non-AA based recovery methods available.

Watching this movie is like having a root canal. The Alice character's behaviour after rehab was over the top. You would think being back with her family might be some small comfort to her but instead she goes into hyper-bitch mode. Cuddling with the creepy young PSH character in their home is not acceptable behaviour. Part of the AA stuff is to fill your head with crap. I didn't find this film very believable, and I've been around many people in recovery. I real life, Andy Garcia would have left her for sure.

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Actually there have been scientific studies on the AA program that show for a good percentage of people the program works. This does NOT mean other approaches don't work as well. I understand why people have a problem with AA, but also know many people thankful for it. By the way, I am not a member of it, but have friends who belong. Here is a link to one such scientific study. Thank you for your thoughtful post.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=does-alcoholics-anonymous-work

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Thanks for the random reply. I have no doubt that the AA/12-step stuff has worked for some, and I don't believe I said otherwise. It has also failed a great many.

Its perhaps a bit ironic, given your link, that the biggest problem for the AA method is that its not the least bit science based. It attempts to cure a clinical problem with non-science. This goes to the core of whether addiction should be treated as a clinical disorder, or a behavioral one. I believe the better approach is to treat it as clinical, and this is corroborated by the most recent neuroscience, as well as state of the art recovery methods.

As I see it, treating addiction as a behavioral disorder is akin to treating it as a moral failing. THIS is where AA/12-step has failed so many, and turned first time addicts into lifelong addicts. This is the sort of stigma those with metal health disorders have faced throughout history, and continue to today.

So when you treat an addict by piling on guilt, burden and a world of absolutes, it will fail most of the time, but, by the laws of average, it will succeed for some. But even for those by which the program succeeds, they tend to live in fear and shame.

I'm a civilian, I'm not a trout

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This is an interesting thread. I returned to this movie because I have recently been thru this scenario with NA, which is the same as AA.

I have been shocked at the way spouses/family are treated. You are labeled co-dependent simply for sticking with the person and trying to keep things together. The over the top behavior of the Meg Ryan character is exactly what I witnessed. The person I know became part of a rehab group - they became the world to that person - he ignored his spouse, his family, everything. The group as well as NA insisted that this was necessary for "recovery" and that anyone "interfering" with it is a bad guy who is not only co-dependent, but actively working against the person's recovery because they don't want change. The addicted are to be pitied for what THEY have been thru, and glorified for their efforts to recover. The spouse, when not being vilified, is an afterthought who may just need to be let go so that recovery is not hampered.

It's awful.




Rachel

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I agree with a lot of your post, sabar-1. I had similar experiences with AA.
My dad was an alcoholic for over 30 years, and during one of his attempts to stop he went to AA. I went to Alateen briefly, as was recommended to help deal with my dad & my own feelings.
They were rather rude to him. They did similarly to what you mentioned; they treated him like he was a bad person for being an addict. Like he deserved to be punished.
When he told them he wouldn't be returning, they were actually NASTY. They literally said to him that 'You'll be back. You can't quit without us!"
He replied "I'll never be back." And he wasn't. It took him a couple more attempts to stop, but he has been sober for 14 years now.
I didn't like Alateen either.

I'm not downtalking it for others, if it works for you God bless! But I guess its not for everyone, nor is every AA group or leader a kind person.


"I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus."
"Didn't he discover America?"
"Penfold, shush."

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[deleted]

So you'd rather treat it with psychotherapeutic drugs

or even worse "Therapy" beyond the rooms

You're either in the pharma business or a "Therapist"

In a world where a carpenter can be resurrected, anything is possible.





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Sorry if you did not like the movie. Taste is relative. But I have to wonder if you have any familiarity with alcoholism or AA at all. Actually, the behavior of Alice is actually pretty typical and pretty accurate. People in early recovery are almost always emotionally fragile. They have just made a huge change in their lives, and moved away from the whole manner of living that worked for them in the past. Going into what you define as "hyper-bitch mode" is actually pretty common. One of the consequences of getting sober is realizing what a mess you were in in the first place, or as some have observed, SOBER can stand for "Son of a Bitch, Everything's Real."

And AA people do hang together, talk to one another, rely on one another. Sometimes they do it in their homes, often elsewhere, but the scene was written in the home so that Michael could come in and witness it. Whether you approve or not, that is perfectly acceptable behavior. They were talking not "cuddling," as you put it. And of course, your suggestion that in real life, her husband would have left is simply wrong. The important part of this movie is that it accurately reflects what happens in many alcoholic families. In most, the family bumps along with various people taking various roles. It may not function well, but it functions. When the alcoholic sobers up, that changes everything. People who used to be able to control things and make decisions cannot anymore. As the movie illustrated, it is not uncommon for people to get sober and have their marriages fall apart. Many families go on to build much healthier and happier relationships, but some do not, and it is difficult for everybody involved.

Your comment about the purpose of AA being to fill your head with crap is just so stupid that it does not deserve a response.

As for the suggestion that AA made a profit out of this film, that is simply not true. Some people have some really crazy ideas about the amount of money rolling around in AA. There is one particular critic who put together another recovery program and talks about the millions of dollars AA gets out of alcoholics by conspiring with treatment centers and courts. Well, it turns out that what he includes in AA is any money spent on treatment by anyone who ever attends an AA meeting. The fact is, AA conspires with no one, gets no funding from any treatment center, (unless one is talking about books and literature and the like, which are typically sold at or below cost) and would not accept donations from any such sources or from the makers of this movie.

Actually, the budget for the General Service Office in New York, the headquarters for all AA activities, is shockingly small. Reports of AA's finances are out there. They are not widely distributed, as they circulate among the membership, but suffice it to say that many people would be astonished at how little money either the AA General Service Office or any other AA local AA office has. Ain't nobody getting rich. More like most offices are happy to make the rent.

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Hard to see how this movie could be all about or for AA inasmuch as not one single step, tradition, or principle is discussed. The havoc that addiction wreaks on families and relationships is not a creature of AA lore, ask any psychologist.

And although AA does not use scientific lingo, the big book is absolutely loaded with psychological principles. In some of its incarnations (bad ones imo) medicine and treatment of comorbid mental health issues is discouraged.

AlAnon can get pretty harsh in the meetings, but that is kind of the nature of the beast. It isn't really part of the program other than the notion that resentments must be aired and not permitted to fester (hey, a sound psychological principle right there).

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Your mother reads like one LONG ad for A.A.

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Adding insult to injury, I didn't think Meg Ryan's acting was all that great here either.
She was not convincing as a drunk nor sober. Like another poster said about Andy's acting, Meg Ryan also seemed to be reading off a cue card.



I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush.

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