Legal incest question - Priest (1995) Discussion

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

I'm a catholic and I'm not a pedophile. Do you have any proof that the Pope is a pedophile?

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I find it ironic that you call yourself "Humanist" when you so obviously hate human nature.
I'm quite aware of the definition of humanism, but I still find it funny.

First of all, your heart's in the right place.
Religion has screwed us all in one way or another.
I know it's done me nothing but harm.
But you have to take into account the happiness and well-being of others.

My parents are very, very religious.
They both live empty, shallow lives, void of any hope or meaning.
However, the only happiness they find is in religion.
A belief and reliance in god, for one, but also the community religion sometimes creates.
If it weren't for church, they'd be lost.
They'd never speak to anyone, and they'd have no friends.
But with church, they have a strong community and a "reason to live."
Is this pathetic?
Possibly.
But you claim that this is unnatural.
I say, hardly.
The pursuit of divine truth is something that we all go through, and it's basically born of our fear of our own mortality.
We're all scared as piss about dying, and some people can't accept the facts presented them, that "every living creature on earth dies alone."
So, are they lesser beings?
Possibly.
But don't say it isn't natural.
Because if there's anything I've found to be more and more true as my years go by, it's that people are ****ing stupid.

If you don't believe in Jesus Christ and are 100% proud of it, put this in your sig.

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[–] humanist27 13 years ago

I'm totally irrelevant here. I don't care about what's gonna happen to me. I'll die in 50 years, if I'm lucky, and then I'm done and who's gonna take over? I care about the people who gets treated like crap on this planet and most of them live in so-called democracies unfortunately. Heterosexuals, homo-, bi- or transexuals, children, the poors, the elderly, people who are sick and all the others too. Instead of believing in stuff that don't exist we should believe and take care of the people who lives on this planet!

Why god (and I refuse to use capital letters)? Why not believe in something or someone who will make things better on this planet? Religious freaks kills thousands of people every year in the name of jesus, god, allah or whatever that they have made up and these criminals have murdered millions of people throughout the history. How is that making things better for the rest of us sane people (non-religious human beings)?

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[–] queerever 13 years ago

I do not find it ironic to call themself Humanist.
Are you really the personification of nihilistic tyranny?

I very much appreciate your extreme openness and honesty, and, but, just as I do sometimes, you have exposed an extremely sad, neurotic situation.
You have argued on a purely semantic level - without doubt, people such as your parents could encounter a far more natural way to be a part of a community. In a sense it seems as though they have been turned away from being "natural", turned off pleasure (god damn it), maybe even turned away from being Humanist - therefore rendered unable to find more pleasure / contact with nature, the nature of other humans (which yes, given the extreme levels of ignorance is difficult, however those that find ABSOLUTELY zero others worthy, do so out of arrogance. I have extremely high standards and am very difficult to please, I have even somewhat become a kind of hermit, but I still find all types of worthwhile people in all kinds of interactions - even church people).
Church, okay, I would argue that it is only natural due to the huge insecurities that people face in front of mortality, and even bigger problems and fears they have in navigating this world. However church attendance seems more of a forced, unnatural habit - YES, you've said it, they probably mostly go for the social aspect, so why all that hoodoo voodoo junk thrown in! They should all be meeting to see the overthrow of all the dictators that are in power in just about any govt. or big company in the world, maybe they would even have more fun, and would certainly show a better understanding of Jesus' life - (instead of attending and supporting the kind of powerful institution that Jesus seemed to hate!)

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[–] humanist27 13 years ago

Wow, you really are an awesome human being! Well except for that religious crap. You know people can be nice to one another even without that jesus *beep* You don't have to believe in stuff that don't exist to care about other people.

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[–] queerever 13 years ago

I was agreeing with you, no. Even defending (your argument, that is), humbly adding that you didn't ask or need, it was my choice.
I don't understand what you mean about the religious crap. Did you misread, not understand my condescending stance which amounts to "talking about Jesus to pander to the religious, talking somewhat in religious terms to appease". I am almost absolutely non religious, so what WERE you referring to!? And I do not say absolutely (without an almost) because you know that that entails its own religiosity, right? (Yes, I am very sorry when something clichéd comes out, but sometimes they are most true).
I don't believe in Jesus, I only imagine he probably existed, but with none of the DIVINITY attached.
Am I mistaking you for intelligent? Please explain what you mean, and respond to me more directly, and not the world at large :)
Your last sentence . . . hmmm. Did I say that? Sheet, when I rattle off a response, maybe I do leave too much room for misunderstanding, but sincerely, explain that point. . .

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[–] humanist27 14 years ago

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0436857/

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[–] red_rackham_77 14 years ago

If that is true then all popes, monks, priests, archbishops should never be trusted.

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[–] film_buff12 13 years ago

This is a sign of a great film. It gets discussions like this one started.

"Ah, ya's fancy pants, alla ya's"
"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli."

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[–] appalonia 12 years ago

well to answer your question...i don't think it's sooo much as giving a blessing as them choosing to turn a blind eye so to speak. ;) just like the priests who have had countless reports filed against them for inappropriate sexual behavior...do they excommunicate them? if they do...they don't do all of them that way...in fact i know of a couple cases where they just simply moved the priest from church to church when things got too hot.

i think the catholic church does need to wake up...stop turning a blind eye and move into the future. and no before any comments are made...i was brought up with a mixture of different religions...on my mother's side...they were all pretty much catholic...and on my father's side....methodist, luthern, baptist, and just plain christian.

but i do hope my answer sheds some light on your question.

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[–] mecassid 8 years ago

Pope Alexander VI was a Borgia. When he wanted his daughter Lucrezia's marriage to be annuled, her then husband accused the pair of having incestual relations. The Borgia family was accused and rumored to have done unspeakable things such as murdering and poisoning political rivals as well as having debauched sexual relations.

The girl's father may have been referring to this, but the money he mentioned sounds more like the pre-reformation days when people would pay indulgences-- money paid to the church to have sins future sins absolved (instead of, you know, not committing them in the first place). If someone paid 24,000 pieces of silver before committing incest, and the pope did nothing, that would be almost like blessing the act.

However, I think in any case, the discussion with "pieces of silver" (as Judas was paid by the prevailing religious leaders at that time to betray Jesus), Alexander VI (a corrupt pope) and the idea of indulgences all lead to the further idea that in this case, keeping the seal of the confessional is perhaps not the correct thing to do. He wrestles with it, but the man's explanation shows the differences between blindly following religious rules and actually having faith.

It also furthers the idea that his type of deviant sexual behavior (rape and incest) is evil and self-serving ("What does she think about it?") Whereas the priest with his male lover and the other priest with his housekeeper/lover do no harm to anyone.

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[–] mecassid 8 years ago

Pope Alexander VI was a Borgia. When he wanted his daughter Lucrezia's marriage to be annuled, her then husband accused the pair of having incestual relations. The Borgia family was accused and rumored to have done unspeakable things such as murdering and poisoning political rivals as well as having debauched sexual relations.

The girl's father may have been referring to this, but the money he mentioned sounds more like the pre-reformation days when people would pay indulgences-- money paid to the church to have sins future sins absolved (instead of, you know, not committing them in the first place). If someone paid 24,000 pieces of silver before committing incest, and the pope did nothing, that would be almost like blessing the act.

However, I think in any case, the discussion with "pieces of silver" (as Judas was paid by the prevailing religious leaders at that time to betray Jesus), Alexander VI (a corrupt pope) and the idea of indulgences all lead to the further idea that in this case, keeping the seal of the confessional is perhaps not the correct thing to do. He wrestles with it, but the man's explanation shows the differences between blindly following religious rules and actually having faith.

It also furthers the idea that his type of deviant sexual behavior (rape and incest) is evil and self-serving ("What does she think about it?") Whereas the priest with his male lover and the other priest with his housekeeper/lover do no harm to anyone.

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