MovieChat Forums > Little Women (1994) Discussion > Marmee was all wrong

Marmee was all wrong

posted 14 years ago by Sofistali
17 replies | jump to latest

Sarandon just had to put her ego and politics all over this, didn't she? Marmee was a very conservative, devout lady. She didn't go off about corsets and girls being allowed to romp around. She was very proper. As Jo once pointed out, if they were running away from an earthquake, she would still probably say "Girls, girls... have you both got clean pocket handkerchiefs??"

She was the one who said the sweetest, best thing that could happen to a woman was to be chosen by a good man. Now I'm not saying she was right, but if you're going to remake an old classic, it's just arrogant and stupid to take this kind of character and decide she's gonna be the editor of Ms. Magazine now.

This 20th century femi-mommy made no sense in this story. But Sarandon can't vanish into a role like Meryl Streep or Sophie Thompson. No, she's gotta make the role vanish into her.

[–] Bilwick1 14 years ago

I don't like Sarandon's politics, and haven't read the book, but I didn't mind Marmee's opinions on things. The Marches (read "Alcotts") were part of an "advanced thinking" crowd and it's entirely likely a real-life Marmee coming out of that culture would have been all for dress "reform" (as they called it), possibly even "free love" although she would have been smart enough not to broadcast that.

[–] Sofistali 14 years ago

Yeah, but "free thinking" at that time was marrying for love instead of money, enjoying the transcendentalists, and letting young girls read risky, cutting edge stuff like Jane Eyre. (Seriously. Many thought Jane was inappropriately "passionate.") It's probably not so jarring if you've never read the book.

[–] Unwanted_Birdtamer 14 years ago

In the sequel Jo's Boys, the women have sewing circle, where Jo gives lectures, many of them from feminist authors/books of the day (including as Bilwick1 mentioned, "dress reform"); as well as lectures on single women and women obtaining careers/education, one of the girls, Nan, becomes a doctor (and never marries). One of the other girls tells a story about how Nan had a female patient with a heart-complaint, and Nan's first advice was to stop wearing corsets. So it might not have been Marmee saying it, but those ideas were definitely there in the book series and espoused by Jo and some of the girls she taught; so they chose to incorporate it into the film. Since the girls were still teenagers at this time, the ideas carried more weight coming from Marmee.
And the Alcotts' free thinking might be rather more radical than you assume. Not only were they for women's rights and education, against slavery and for the education of African Americans, something not even all abolitionists supported (Bronson taught a young black girl at his school until all the other students were pulled out in protest and he had to close the school for good) and were pacifists; but they had lived on a commune advocating socialism, vegetarianism and animal rights, and one of the commune members believed nudity was the only way to free the spirit and chose to wander around the premises in a state of such a state of undress. Although on this commune, the members tried to encourage celibacy rather than free love (celibacy didn't fly to well with Mr & Mrs Alcott).

Come, we must press against the tide of naughtiness. Mind your step.

[–] cheedo 14 years ago

"Yeah, but "free thinking" at that time was marrying for love instead of money,"

But that's exactly what Marmee wanted for her girls- especially Meg and Amy, since Meg tended to lust after the rich life and Amy was just shallow for a long time.

"Rawr, I'm a dinosaur!" No. Rawr, you're an idiot.

[–] rebkad 13 years ago

Yes, and film-Marmee is only anti-corset, not say pro-trousers or anything like that. It's Jo that says 'Drat these skirts' and it's pretty straight from the book that Jo wants to wear boy's clothes etc.

In another of her books, LM Alcott discusses girls undies and discourages corsets - I think it's either 'Eight Cousins' or 'Rose in Bloom'. I think they did use Marmee to spell out the ideals of self-respect and not viewing yourself as only a 'fashion plate' more directly than the book, but it is a film for young people, and it didn't hurt having them said more forcefully by someone like Susan Sarandon. Meryl Streep gets more into a character, but can lose that force at times therefore.

[–] fleur_de_lis11 13 years ago

I don't agree with your assessment at all. If you had bothered to read the book, look up the history of the author and understood the motivations and beliefs held by Louisa May-Alcott, you may have actually realized that she was extremely progressive for her time. For example, she wrote that the March family became poor because the father wanted to integrate black children into the all white school. Given that Alcott wrote Josephine (as a projection of herself no less) as a tom boy who wanted to be given the opportunities for education as men in that time and age were given, then it becomes quite obvious that Alcott wrote Little Women with a feminist slant.

But I guess all those implications are hard for you to understand Sofistali, since your intelligence (or lack thereof) is proved by the way you insult Sarandon. If you had any sense, you would realize that Sarandon is just an actress, and any dialogue and characterizations were not hers to manipulate to her own feminist views, but rather, probably handled by the screenwriters who based their adaptation on the novel...

P.S. Marmee was anything BUT conservative and devout. She was progressive, liberal, and spiritual. But the novel never proselytized religion.

Such ignorant remarks as yours needs to be addressed and corrected.

[–] ThePublicEnemy 13 years ago

I agree with your wider point, certainly. But the school closing because of the black kid was not in the novel, only the movie. In the novel, as I recall, Mr March had simply lent money to a friend who had then lost it all and nothing more was said.

Perhaps you're thinking of the very end of the second half of the book, when they mention a pupil at Jo's school who is a 'quadroon' (old timey word for one-quarter black). And who is never mentioned again in the sequels. But that's a whole other discussion.

From 1930 on up, reviews and chat http://resilientlittlemuscle.blogspot.com

[–] Alerra (244) 3 years ago

Bronson Alcott (LMA's father) did run a school and attempt to integrate it, and the school was forced to close. That scene in the movie (which didn't involve Marmee at all) may have been inspired by that.

[–] Sofistali 11 years ago

I've read that book about 30 times. I grew up reading that book over and over. You are the one who needs to look again. Marmee was indeed devout, conservative, and religious.

[–] UdoConstantini (117) 3 years ago

Sofistali wrote: "Sarandon just had to put her ego and politics all over this, didn't she? Marmee was a very conservative, devout lady."

fleur_de_lis11 wrote: "Marmee was anything BUT conservative and devout. She was progressive, liberal, and spiritual. But the novel never proselytized religion."

I think you both have skewed views based on a contemporary misconception. Since about 1980, it has been a hard-core propaganda effort to convince the public that for someone to be "devout" or "religious" ineluctably entails that they are conservative, when that has NEVER been the case. I also wouldn't put in opposition the terms, "devout" and "spiritual", as if the former is conservative and the latter liberal.

[–] whitelamp 13 years ago

Why are you blaming Susan Sarandon for not having the character as you had envisioned? She just acted what the writers wrote.

[–] ceebeegee 11 years ago

You have issues. You probably should stay away from movies like Little Women which feature strong female characters. Alcott and her family were MUCH, much more progressive than you clearly realize.

[–] stayprettystockholm 11 years ago

You keep accusing everyone who says something honest you dont like to hear of "having issues". Methinks someone needs to check out her projections in the mirror and quit calling the kettle black. You are intolerant and are the one with issues. You cant stand anyone thinking differently than you, especially when they are correct, and this is just irrational. Dont take this as an attack, but this common attitude online and irl needs a calling-out bad.

And if you think the Marches were liberals, please dont project your own ideals onto them. Try reading the books (which the movie is obviously different from) and you'll plainly see how MORALLY conservative they are. after all, they are a Christian family that firmly believes in traditional things like modesty, forgiveness, family, marriage, homemaking, etc. Claiming they're otherwise is wishful thinking at best, insulting to and dishonest about the book at worst.

The OP is right, they seriously lib'd up Marmee. The family WAS very progressive in some was as you were (partly) correct about, but Susan definitely can't keep her politics out. funny, if a right winger or Christian did this they would be attacked for it. But if a liberal or atheist does it, it's empowering, at least acceptable.

Though you're dressed in rags, you wear an air of queenly grace

[–] hachmom-1 10 years ago

It may be that Marmee is more feminist in the film but I think it has less to do with Ms Sarandon than a lot of research that has clearly been done in on the actual March family and also Ms Alcott's other books. To cite just the example of the corset and women's clothing, although not much on it comes up in Little Women, there is a good deal of it in Eight Cousins, where Dr Alec roundly condems corsets and inhibiting and unhealthy clothes for women.

It is not our abilities that show who we truly are...it is our choices

[–] liscarkat (16476) 5 years ago

There was a bit more feminist declaiming by Marmee in this film than there was in the book. I found it to be on the verge of overdone, especially coming out of the mouth of Sarandon, whose real-life outspokenness I could not completely put out of my mind while watching. But the overall quality and beauty of the movie, combined with the fact that the opinions came from Alcott herself, albeit from sources other than the novel, allowed me to overlook it.

[–] UdoConstantini (117) 3 years ago

A couple of points. First, unless I'm mistaken, Sarandon was neither the screenwriter, producer, nor director. So I find it odd to blame her for what's in the script.

Second, I am generally in agreement with Sarandon's political perspectives, but I find her mostly insufferable. She is that part of the left that is doctrinaire, rigid, uncompromising and condescending. Frankly, I think it is her and her ilk who have been hurting Democrats for decades by making them less palatable to centrist voters. And, YES, I do think she helped Trump get elected in 2016. Still I think she is a super actress and her personal behavior has never detracted from my enjoyment in watching her acting.

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

You're wrong. Fuck off. We all love Susan Sarandon