MovieChat Forums > Hoop Dreams (1994) Discussion > I wanted them to make it..

I wanted them to make it..

posted 19 years ago by juelzhickz-1
25 replies | jump to latest

It's sad to find out that they didn't accomplish there goals. I wanted them to reach thier goals of going to the NBA. The fact that they didn't made the documentry more realistic. It should people that the statistics are true there is a low chance of going pro, and these guys were good. If they had at least average academics they would have went to top colleges.

P.S. It seemed liked both William and Auther weren't happy about what colleges they were going to, didn't it?

[–] petthebambaotherside 18 years ago

Marquette, the school william went to was a top college basketball school

[–] ginz 18 years ago

Arthur didn't have the game, or the size, to go to a top college program, lets be realistic... and the Top college's are the one's that usually have more lax academics than the lesser DI schools (granted he went to a Juco first, but still). He was a good player who thought he was much, much better than he was, as did many of the people closest to his family...

[–] v_p 18 years ago

William Gates was actually invited by Michael Jordan to try out with the Washington Wizards after he performed well in some practise games Jordan put on before his last comeback. But then he re-injured his knee and missed his final chance to play in the NBA. Had he remained healthy, he probably would have made it, at least to the bench.

[–] xb9738 13 years ago

He actually broke his foot. I think he got the invite because he and Michael are pretty tight.

But really he was a shooting guard in a point guard's body.

[–] coleburg83 13 years ago

He got invited because of the documentary. He didn't even try in his last couple years at Marquette. He was never going to be a pro on his ability or work ethic.

-
You did just fine, Clarence. Now go git yo'self some hot cornbread!

[–] rickumali 18 years ago

I do feel bad that Agee and Gates didn't "make it" to the NBA. But I think the movie would have had less impact. The fact that they did all that they did and do not make it says a lot about the current caliber of players in the NBA (i.e. Agee and Gates were great, but they weren't at the next level).

I just finished watching the Criterion DVD of this great movie, and both Agee and Gates have a great commentary track in which they express satisfaction with the way things out. They were wistful, yes, and boastful ("we could have made it"), but they do acknowledge their limits.

Rick (http://www.rickumali.com/) Umali

[–] koxan 18 years ago

Does anyone in this forum, think that the overseas players (yao ming, pau gasol and other non- black players) are good enough to play in the NBA?

or are they playing in NBA, simply because David Stern wants the NBA to have a worldwide following?

I believe William Gates is "good enough" to play in the NBA and he would be better than any European players.

Arthur Agee - NO, he is not good enough to play in the NBA.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] gustavenla68 18 years ago

If the Europeans are so bad at basketball then why is the US losing to them in iunternational competitions? The bottom line is that those guys can play better then many american players. The bottom line is that Gate was not good enough to play in the NBA. That is why he is not there. It is not some conspiracy of Stern.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] tcunningha1 17 years ago

"European players are really good shooters."

A lot of them aren't, watching Andris Biedrans shoot is painful.

"They aren't very athletic by any means with the exception of Manu Ginobli and Tony Parker."

Manu Ginobli isn't European, he's from Argentina.

There are a lot of athletic Europeans...Andris Biedrans, Sasha Pavlovic, Vladamir Radmonovic, Mickael Pietrus, Boris Diaw, etc.

"I mean,why do you need 7 footers who never beat and bang and just stand out by the three point line?"

Do you know of any 7 footers who stand by the 3 point line? I don't...why don't you name one? Dirk Nowitski operates from the high post which is well within the 3-point line. He draws double teams, passes, drives to the basket, and creates for his teammates. Pau Gasol operates in the low and high post and scores off driving to the basket, spin moves, drop steps, hooks, and dunks mostly.

"The sad thing is,the state of NBA basketball is nothing more than street ball. None of them can shoot,none of them pass,they just play one on one and try to dunk everything that they can..."

The sad thing is, you apparently know very little about the NBA or baskteball in general. The NBA has the best shooters and passers in the world by far. None of them can pass? Ever heard of Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Lebron James, Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Deron Williams? None of them can shoot? Ever heard of Steve Nash, Michael Redd, Eddie House, Peja Stojakovic, Wally Sczerbiac, Dirk Nowitski, Ray Allen, Kobe Bryant, etc...? That ~24 foot 3 Point line is a looonnnggg way away, despite what it looks like on your TV in comparison to the size of the athletes. It is especially so with a hand in your face. College players are shooting from 4 feet closer to the basket and face weaker defenses...huge difference. Ever wonder why Adam Morrison and JJ Redick shoot a poor % and struggle to score in the NBA? It's not because they suddenly forgot how to shoot. It's because the distances are much further and it's much harder to get open.

BTW, did you catch Team USA blowing everyone out in the FIBA Americas tournament by 30-40+ points every single night and easily leading the tournament in scoring, FG%, team assists, and almost every other category? Did you see Michael Redd and Mike Miller abusing the weak international 3 point line? Pretty good for street ballers that can't shoot or pass...

[–] the_fat_dude 16 years ago

steve nash, john stockton, and some of the great "white" point gaurds wernt very atheletic. but they know how to direct a game and shoot the *beep* out of the ball. just like most euro player can.

[–] tcunningha1 17 years ago

"If the Europeans are so bad at basketball then why is the US losing to them in iunternational competitions?"

For several reasons, mostly because up until a year or two ago the way our team was put together was very poor. We never had a balanced team with shooters, defenders and role players. It was just a bunch of slashers thrown together that didn't mesh and couldn't realistically be expected to mesh, not to mention a lot of best players declined to play. Last international competition the USA steam rolled through every team until it got to the semi-finals and lost a flukish game to Greece...because of a poor shooting night and ironically Coach K's inability to defend and a bread and butter NBA play...the pick and roll. They only lost one game in a one and out situation after destroying every other team they played...

The other countries have more chemistry because they played together a lot more and they are used to FIBA rules...the game is different, the strategies are different, the rules are different. They are in a comfort zone while the US is still adapting to their version of a game that was invented here. Now Colangelo and others are in charge of Team USA and are going about it much more intelligently and it is showing off. Team USA completely dominated the FIBA Americas tournament and should win the olympics in Beijing.

The US still by far produces the best basketball players in the world and it's not even remotely close...ask any player or coach on any European team and they'll tell you the same thing.

"The bottom line is that those guys can play better then many american players. The bottom line is that Gate was not good enough to play in the NBA. That is why he is not there. It is not some conspiracy of Stern."

Of course...it's sad that this kid apparently believes that Stern decides who plays and also apparently tells the black players to let Yao score and block their shots so that people in China will watch the NBA...

[–] burkesterella 17 years ago

it's a terrible shame what happened to curtis gates he never got his life on track and never lived to see his bro create a life for himself

[–] v_p 17 years ago

koxan I think they are good enough to play in the NBA but there is definitely a push from David Stern for more international players. Yao has become a decent player but he is way too overrated. The only reason he tops all star voting every year is because of China's massive population.
Pau Gasol is an awesome player... Dirk I don't think should've won MVP this year, I think Steve Nash deserved it... but he's a Canadian anyway, eye.

[–] tcunningha1 17 years ago

"Does anyone in this forum, think that the overseas players (yao ming, pau gasol and other non- black players) are good enough to play in the NBA?

or are they playing in NBA, simply because David Stern wants the NBA to have a worldwide following?"

Please tell me this is a joke...you can't really be this stupid, can you? You're asking if a center who averages 25 ppg, 10 rpg, 2 bpg, and shoots well over 50% from the field is good enough to play in the NBA? WTF are you smoking? Yao is arguably the best center in the league/world (between him and Dwight Howard). David Stern is the commissioner of the NBA, he has absolutely no say over who a team drafts or plays. NBA teams want to win, if a player isn't good enough a team is not going to keep them and play them, period.

Pau Gasol is one of the best power forwards in the league. He won rookie of the year and is easily a top 10 PF in the league. He led Spain to dominate the olympics a couple years ago.

How about back to back MVP winner Steve Nash who leads his team to 60 wins every year? Is he good enough to play in the NBA?

I'm in shock that anyone could post something so ridiculous, I sincerely hope that you're just joking or trolling....

[–] benjtsang 17 years ago

"Does anyone in this forum, think that the overseas players (yao ming, pau gasol and other non- black players) are good enough to play in the NBA?
or are they playing in NBA, simply because David Stern wants the NBA to have a worldwide following?"

Right yeah the reason the NBA is not 100% black is because David Stern hates black people and conspires to limit the number of them as much as possible. Even to the extent of bringing crap "non-black players" like Dirk Nowitzski, Steve Nash, Yao Ming into the game. Is it even a question whether Yao or Pau Gasol are good enough to play in the NBA?

Also when you say "other non-black overseas players", are you suggesting that the overseas black players are actually good enough to play in the NBA, but not the white, hispanic, asian ones? What is this reverse-racism bull$hit you are trying to pull. No not everyone hates black people (and likely not David Stern either) and yes he may be trying to increase the NBA's global appeal but there is no question that the non-US, "non-black" players in the NBA deserve to be there. No one put a gun to Houston's head and told them to draft Yao Ming FIRST OVERALL in 2002.

I too believe that Gates was good enough to make it into the NBA, but no he would most definitely not be better than "any European players".

"Even my parents called me Mulder"

[–] AntonioDaniels 13 years ago

I realize this comment was made all the way back in 2006, but it's about as ignorant as they come! Yao and Gasol are All NBA caliber bball players. Hilarious.

[–] everydayboredom1980 10 years ago

LOL

Yeah the Gasols are only in there for affirmative action. Nevermind the DPOY, countless double-doubles.

[–] Hamsterman11 8 years ago

People like you are the reason people make fun of Americans for being ignorant about the world. you should educate yourself on 'foreign' basketball players before making moronic statements like that.

[–] vct33 13 years ago

The fact that they did all that they did and do not make it

What did they do? It didn't seem to me that either of them put in an unusual amount of work. There are lots of guys who put in endless hours of work and never make their High School Varsity teams.

My rhymes are so potent that in this small segment I made all of the ladies on IMDb pregnant.

[–] patgotee 18 years ago

THIS POST CONTAINS SPOILERS!!!!!

>>It's sad to find out that they didn't accomplish there goals. I wanted them to reach thier goals of going to the NBA. The fact that they didn't made the documentry more realistic. It should people that the statistics are true there is a low chance of going pro, and these guys were good. If they had at least average academics they would have went to top colleges.<<

Everytime I see this movie I see things I never saw before and it gets more and more depressing. If they had made it to the NBA this wouldn't have been nearly the compelling documentary that it is. And could you imagine if they HAD made it? You would have hundreds of thousands of kids thinking they could do it too. Every high school athlete should be forced to watch this movie.

Having watched this movie several times it makes me think, were William and Arthur really that good? Did the filmmakers find kids there were good players but not too good knowing what the outcome would be? Did the cameras inflate their ego's? While this movie focuses on just these 2 boys they are 2 of thousands of young kids who don't make it. You figure there are 30 teams in the NBA with 12 roster spots on each team and most of these teams have 2 or 3 international players on the team. So that means you have to be one of the best 300 players IN THE USA and one of the best 350 players in the world. (Were they, really?) How many players are there in the NCAA ranks? (Not even figuring Jr. colleges!) The chances of "making it" are fatter than being struck by lightining.

I have mentioned ths before but the villains in the movie are Pingatore and I really hate to say it but, Williams Gates' family. William's older brother who was "a lock" to make it to the NBA sums up his failures with one quote..."The great ball players care more about basketball then they do about school...and I know they do." It really worked out for him huh? William is surrounded by people who constantly misguide him. All of these people tell him that basketball is the only answer making him put all of his eggs in one basket. They have him so brainwashed he thinks that missing the birth of his first child for a high school basketball game is ok. Not only is it ok, it would be a sin for him to miss the game. Sad. While this is one of the most special movies of all time, this is an ordinary thing that happens to thousands of kids everyday.

[–] spencede 17 years ago

You people are so stupid, Author and William was chosen because in the 7th grade they were head and shoulders above the rest. Author was an excellent player with a lot of talent in the 7th grade, Author talent level never matured a lot when he entered high school. William was a great player in high school until his nee injury after that he was a very different player. The documentary had to continue to focus on both players because these were the two players chosen initially. I have read the stupid post on this site from uneducated individual stating that the boys were failures. William graduated from college and Author has a successful business and moved his family out of the neighborhood, I am happy for both kids. I have a question out of all of the kids who go to college to be doctors what percentage of those kids makes it? Despite off of the critiques William has endured in the previous post and numerous posts about chasing his dream, a common stereotype of black Americans, he still I said still graduated from college. But that is beside the point because it makes a better story to criticize him for wanting to play basketball in college. It is hilarious that white America always knows what is better for Black Americans, give it some though does Black Americans know what is better for white Americans...

[–] mikeb882 17 years ago

I'm guessing English is a second language for you. If it isn't that was worst writing I have ever seen, and you start with "you people are stupid" but you yourself sound extremely stupid. It's not Author is Arthur, nee is spelled knee. How old are you?

[–] anack10 16 years ago

Whether he spent hours editing the spelling and grammar in his post or not, Spence is absolutely right. The fact that people on the site view success for Gates and Agee solely based on whether they make it to the NBA or not is disgusting. It's more than just a freakin movie. They're real people. And stop debating how talented you think they are. None of you are scouts. And you're basing your views on heavily-edited footage of them in their high school games?