MovieChat Forums > Heisei tanuki gassen ponpoko (1995) Discussion > :-/ Why did they have to translate 'tanu...

:-/ Why did they have to translate 'tanuki' as 'raccoon'?


I just bought this movie the other day. I love all of studio Ghibli's films, and have an interest in Japan/Japanese folklore.
I really loved this movie, but was aggravated to hear the Tanukis referred to as 'raccoons' constantly.
Tanukis aren't raccoons... They aren't even a relative of raccoons! They are actually in the dog family. In america they are called 'Raccoon-Dogs', i.e. dogs that look similar to raccoons.
But they are a canine, not a raccoon.
Why don't translaters do some research first :-/

Here's some info about real Tanukis/Raccoon-Dogs:

http://www.answers.com/topic/raccoon-dog-1




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Very simple answer: This is supposed to be a family movie, and kids see the animals in the movie as a raccoon.. it would confuse a child to change their name from a raccoon to a raccon dog.

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Just because kids might not be familiar with a certain species, doesn't mean they need to pretend it's a different animal.

In movies like 'The Lion King' should they have called Timon a ferret b/c most kids know what a ferret is and probably never heard of a meerkat so it would confuse them to see a ferrety animal being referred to as a something-cat? (heck I know adults who were confused wondering how Timon was a type of cat, thinking they were calling him a 'mere cat'.)

:-/ If I was a child watching this, I'd be more confused as to "Why don't those *raccoons* have bushy ring-tails?"








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the word Raccoon was shorter to pronouce than Tanuki. And the English version has to fit the mouth movement perfectly. I don't mind if they use the word Raccoon. Since Tanuki does translate to Raccoon Dog.

Same with the Foxes which were called Kitsunes in Japanese. The word fox is shorter to pronouce than Kitsune.

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Technically, Tanuki doesn't translate to Raccoon dog, it's a proper noun, it should just translates to 'Tanuki'. Just like Tokyo translates to Tokyo and not 'east capital'.

Racoon Dog in Japanese would probably be 'rakunken'

English Language Anime: Dub it, don't pervert it.

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Um... but "raccoon dog" is the English name for the tanuki. It's not really the same thing.

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most kids know what a ferret is

errr... where are you from? That is not the case for me here in australia. I can't even remember having seen a real ferret (I have known, breifly, weirdo's that have had them). And I remember a popular US sitcom recently say only weirdo's have ferrets. Can't agree enough. most kids know what a ferret is? either you're a weirdo who would have a ferret or you don't have kids and can't judge what they would know.

“In my sentences I go where no man has gone before.”
- George W. Bush

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I think most kids know what a ferret is and have seen them at pet stores. At least here in America minus California where they are illegal.

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A rose by any other name, maybe?

Given the horrible things that 4kids and co have done to anime in the past, I think that I can let this one go.

Besides, Tanuki is often literally translated as 'Raccoon' by pro translators. It's just semantics, like calling a dolphin or whale a fish. It's not accurate, but it's acceptable.

English Language Anime: Dub it, don't pervert it.

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because no one in the us, besides otaku freaks like yourself, know what tanukis are. so get over it.

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hey anybody here ever play Super Mario 3 for the NES
in the game you get a "Tanooki Suit" and Maio turned into a racoon

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Out of all the anime I have seen (and it is not alot really), this is a pretty good dub. The voices fit really good. However, what annoys me more than nails-on-a-blackboard is the replacement of tanuki for racoon.

Yes, tanuki (is tanuki also the plural word for tanuki? I just want to know.) are not raccons. According to these articles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanuki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raccoon_Dog
I understand that they could be described as raccons if you want to give an example of how they are like, but you have to say that they are in fact not raccons. What is wrong with a bit education? It is insulting to dumb things down. That is what Disney did.

But that is being techical. Here is my reason this is really why this is so annoying. "Pom Poko" is inherently Japanese. Of course, it is anime. But I talking about all the Japanese references: the Japanese relgion(s), the mythlogy, the folklore, the historical legends, the urban legends, and even social problems like the urban encroachment. It is far from being an marketable film for Americans. Why not keep the word "tanuki"? Here is a link to show you what I mean.
http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/pompoko/faq.html

Added comments:
And since when has "calling a dolphin or(a)whale a fish" sufficient? Is a snake acceptable for a lizard, or a lizard for an alligator? Also is a seahorse, a marine equus-caballus (binomial name for horse); therefore, is it okay for a raccon dog to be called a raccon. Okay, that might have been a stretch, but I hope my point was made.

"The word Raccoon was shorter to pronouce than Tanuki. And the English version has to fit the mouth movement perfectly. I don't mind if they use the word Raccoon. Since Tanuki does translate to Raccoon Dog."

Maybe I am wrong, but would not a dubbed tanuki fit perfectly over the mouth movements for the Japanese word "tanuki"?

"Same with the Foxes which were called Kitsunes in Japanese. The word fox is shorter to pronouce than Kitsune."

Kitsune are foxes. Thus, it is completely appropriate to use the English word "foxes" for the Japanese word "kitsune. Don't you think. If they wanted to use the correct translation for tanuki they shoul have said Raccon dog. But then we would start the arguemnt of that being too long a word for to dub.

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Absolutely correct, JoeChristmasPunk. Thank you.

Anyway, what is the excuse for mistranslating tanuki to raccoon in the SUBTITLED version? No excuse.

And to "hediggs"... You don't have to be an "otaku freak" to know what a tanuki is. You apparently know what a tanuki is. Don't be rude.

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Since you mention that for the English dub they should have just carried over the name tanuki (and tanuki is indeed plural; Japanese don't have any changes with plural from singular), well, in case you have never noticed, English speakers speak much more slowly than Japanese speakers. If you were to write in roomaji what an English speaker would say to replicate "tanuki" it would wind up being "taanuukii" or something, which is so much longer than tanuki. So it wouldn't match after all.

There is no excuse, though, to translate it that way in subtitle.

Since I'm not a biologist, and I never noticed that they don't have raccoon tails, but they have those "masks", I would have wondered why they might be calling these creatures tanuki instead of raccoons. I would have thought they just had a lame translator that couldn't figure out how to translate tanuki.

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Mmm... thanks for the info.

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[deleted]

Here is more to back him up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanuki

as for the misinformed otaku... WHAT DO YOU EXPECT? Theyre all idiots living in some idealized fantasy world of japan. I used to work in a comic store and the otaku ive seen were wholly ignorant of japan. hell, they didnt know otaku is a very derogatory term used to describe obsessed people.

thats why modern anime fans dont know *beep* they dont even watch some of the stuff from the 70s to mid 80s


"It never got weird enough for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

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[deleted]

Maybe because they just thought most people in the non-Japanese audience will not be familiar to tanukis but to raccoons yes. I agree that's a pity to keep people in ignorance and to treat the audience as if they weren't able to learn new things! In the French version (at least in the subtitles since I haven't seen the dubbed version) they kept the word tanuki.


BTW do you have an idea of the litteral meaning of the original title?



Please visit my profile & me for my unsolved researches - always new ones! Thanks

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Great post JoeChristmasPunk!
Glad to know others see my point on why they shouldn't change the entire species in translations.

Just b/c not too many Americans know what a raccoon-dog is, doesn't mean they should just be left ignorant.
Like I've mentioned already, other movies have had odd animals that people weren't familiar with, like Timon the meerkat in Lion King.
If they wanted to prevent confusion in Lion King for the kids, they could have easily called Timon a ferret or weasel since that is what he looks like to people who never heard of a meerkat. Americans are familiar with ferrets, not meerkats.

I don't see any reason to pretend something is a different species than it is. Tanuki are a real animal. They aren't raccoons or even related to raccoons. Tanuki is the japanese word for raccoon-dog, same as Kitsune is Jap. for fox, Neko is cat, etc.
If there was an anime about the adventures of a Kitsune, would it be OK if in the english translation they called it Adventures of the Siberian Husky?

This has nothing to do with being overly-picky or an anime freak/purist. It's a simple matter that an actual species was changed and mis-named b/c Disney doesn't think Americans can handle learning about a new animal species.

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I totally agree. IMO that's arrogant to think the audience is unable to learn new things. I often tend to think the same when they don't respect languages - e.g. when foreign people speak to each other in English with a terrible accent!

All of that has some stupid commercial concerns - they don't wanna risk their holy money!


Please visit my profile & me for my unsolved researches - always new ones! Thanks

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[deleted]

Bah, I agree entirely. I mean, didn't we all learn what a meerkat was through The Lion King? Don't we now all know the distinction between a warthog and a regular pig? They didn't just call the TLK charas Joe and Mandy either, they used names that actually meant stuff in the languages indigenous to the locations the story took place in. d: People seem to think that kids are too stupid to understand stuff like this - rather, adults just don't realize that kids are more open to this stuff than they are. d:




As for the word otaku, yeah, it's sort of common knowledge that otaku's a derogative term there, but I've heard it used in Japanese media just to refer to an anime fan. Typically it's shortened to 'Aniota' (anime-otaku), as an extra distinction.



-----
"Without measuring your own capacities, you had no idea of mine."

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BTW do you have an idea of the litteral meaning of the original title?


The original title translates to something like 'Great Heisei Tanuki Battle Pom Poko'. Heisei is the Chinese name of the current Japanese Emperor. In Japan they have 2 ways of saying the Year. One is the one we are familiar with (eg AD2006), and the other is based on how long the current Emperor has been on the throne. I think this year is Heisei 18.

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Thanks for the infos (I knew the existence of 2 calendars since I had a course about history of calendars...)
See ya

Please visit my profile & me for my unsolved researches - always new ones! Thanks

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It's because people in the west don't know what Tanuki are, and they don't know what Racoon-dogs are. It's not integral to the story to have that part accurately translated.

There are several animal names which exist in Japanese, but are never used. There is a correct word for 'badger' in Japanese, but it's not used, because people in Japan don't know what a badger is. Instead it's more likely to be described as something similar to a badger than the Japanese are familiar with.

I've always called Tanuki 'racoons' in English, even though I know it's not quite correct. People can equate it much easier to those weird Japanese animals that look like racoons.

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OMG! Did you not read what I wrote? Talk about missing the point.

Were you suprised in "Barnyard" that male cow have utters?

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Mujina is the correct japanese word for badger - it refers to the species Meles Anakuma aka the Japanese Badger. People in Japan do know what badgers are - they have their own native species.

In certain areas mujina is also used to refer to the tanuki, while tanuki can also be used to refer to the badger. As a result tanuki was commonly translated into English as badger prior to the US occupation of Japan. Rather than look at existing translations the Americans decided to give the tanuki the new raccoon dog title.

I've always called tanuki 'tanuki' and (until I saw one) was always told it's a bit like a badger - never a raccoon! I guess having an uncle really into Japanese folklore has its benefits!

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I don't want to sound rude or ignorant - because I do know the difference between tanuki and racoons, but why is this a big deal?

Calling the tanuki a raccoon doesn't hurt the story at all.

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I have to admit. It does not hurt the story. I do not think that was the point that most of us are stating.

However, I do believe that it does hurt the cultural identity that is heavily laid in this film. I also think that this is a reflection of Disney's lack of intrest in these films.

I do not what else I could state that has already been said. respond.

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I dissagree. I think that you are nit-picking about insignifigant details.

When Disney signed the contract to produce the films here in America, part of the agreement that the pieces would be kept as true to the original as was possible. Whether the critters are called Tanuki or Raccoons is trivial because The story remains the same. If this were a national geographic feature about Tanuki, I could see the problem. But it isn't. It's all animals and humans learning to coexist - not just -one specific- species.

In other words, I see your point, but I don't think that it is an issue.

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When Disney signed the "contract" for distribution rights (and not " produce"--they did not make the films) with Tokuma Shoten and Studio Ghibli, part of the agreement was that they were not to re-edit the films to Disney's wishes. They did not, but they did have the right to re-dubbed as they wanted. They did. From the research I have done, I have not seen anything to say "that the [films] would be kept as true to the original as was possible." Yet, I guess it could be seen that way.

"Whether the critters are called Tanuki or Raccoons is trivial because The story remains the same." I agree the story is not hurt, and I have said it in posts before. There is no point in being redundant on something we agree.


"If this were a national geographic feature about Tanuki, I could see the problem. But it isn't. "The posts above have stated that the Japanese have there own folklore for tanuki and kitsune (foxes), which is heavly laid in this film as well as other elements of Japanese culture. Tanuki were not randomly picked. We do not see deer, bears, or snow monkeys with large testicles, placing leaves on their heads to transfrom, or tricking humans to give them sake. How is this not "a national geographic feature about Tanuki"?

" t's all animals and humans learning to coexist - not just -one specific- species." Okay?



Re-edited because of grammar.



http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/pompoko/
http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/pompoko/faq.html
http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/disney/
http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/disney/media-coverage.html
http://www.themovieblog.com/archives/2004/06/disney_delays_studio_ghibli_releases.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanuki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studio_Ghibli
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nausica%C3%A4_of_the_Valley_of_Wind
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folklore

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i win

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How immature. You said it was pointless going over the same thing again and again, so I didn't reply. We both agree that what you're bitching about is trivial. Nothing more to say, is there?

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Sorry, but it did cause you to resond. And "bitching" is not exactly mature.

I said that we should no longer argue over one of the points of the film--that of being good to nature and what not--since it was brought out well in the film. I was responding to what said about this film not being "a national geographic feature about Tanuki." I just now got that you meant by "national geographic" as to mean the National Geographic. Sorry. I thougt you meant a nation's geographic ("of or pertaining to the natural features, population, industries, etc., of a region or regions") identiity.

I think the whole point of this log is:

Disney robbed some of Japan's cultural idenitiy by not making an effort to distinguish tanuki from racoons. They are lazy. However, the message is still understood.

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"We both agree that what you're bitching about is trivial."
No. I said agreeing about the movie's message about the environment is "trivial." What I was "bitching about" was negating Japan's culture from the film. Yeah, took me years to come up with another response.

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