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Perry/Hulme's Choice of Career Path - Discuss


Although I started a similar thread about this issue and have commented on other threads about my stance on this, the title of my last thread wasn't a clear indication of the content matter.

Ergo I felt it would be wise to start a new discussion whereby the content is more clearly indicated in the title.

It's fairly obvious by now that I personally have a problem finding any justification for Juliette Hulme's decision to write about crime given that she is a convicted murderess.

I know she has served some time but I still see no convincing demonstration of any real remorse.

There's a real moral dilemma at play here. Just consider for a moment how you might feel if your own mother had been murdered in such a way and that one of the perportrators was now making a profit by writing crime novels? Someone who was afforded a change of name but who then appears on British television to promote one of her novels.

Does this woman have no thought for the victims? Pauline Yvonne Parker was not Honoura's only child and there are bound to be other generations of the family that have to live with this injustice (as I feel it to be).

I'm not trying to be judge, jury and executioner here but more I am trying to get people to spare a thought for the victims in this whole thing. It must be a fairly bitter pill to swallow to know that the person who murdered your loved one is profitting (as I assume she must be), from writing about the very thing that stole Honoura away. It just strikes me as wholly inappropriate and insensitive.

Maybe some will disagree and I don't mind (That's what makes debates interesting). Please, do try to refrain from mud-slinging. Let's see a reasoned discussion where we can all respect eachother's views even if we don't necessarily agree

Thanks.

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Perhaps she would have become a writer in any case, even if she never killed anyone? Just a thought. It's not as if she's writing about the murder she had a part in, nor is she making any money because of it...
but I can understand your point and I see how people could feel injustice over her success.
Making a living writing novels is a huge achievement. Let's not forget, her novels are fiction. I have never read any of her books, but if I do someday... it will be hard not to make comparisons to her own crimes.

I always thought she might be working out some demons.


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Hi SB,

Many thanks for your thoughts. I too of course have never read nor seen a book by "Anne Perry" and you may assume right - maybe she's working out some inner demons. I had not thought of that. But still, it's a bit insensitive.

Interesting thought, thanks for your comment

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...
I was talking with my husband about Anne Perry and her career. He basically said, sure it's insensitive but...
"I guess there is no such thing as bad publicity."

Interesting discussion. Perhaps she's going up the ranks from famous to infamous.

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LOL! Indeed and it's thanks to me and my naming of her that's giving her even more. Dang!

Your husband has a good point there! I know she was always interested in writing, both girls were and maybe she really did want to cash-in on her notoriety. I'm pretty sure a great many folks would have bought one of Perry's books to satisfy their curiosity.

It's quite bizarre that someone would have a change of name, presumably for privacy reasons as opposed to fictional author names, only to then start making it publically known who they actually are. Very odd that, don't you think? Unless we're right about her wanting to cash-in on her crimes.

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It only became widely known that Anne Perry was Juliet after the movie came out. Before that time, she'd been writing crime novels for quite a while already. There was no hint of 'cashing in' on her earlier crime, because it wasn't promoted that she was the killer from this well-known case. She was 'outed' by the publicity around the films release.

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That's right. If she wanted to cash in her notoriety, she wouldn't have changed her name in the first place, right? Or told the public about who she was when she published her first novel. As far as I know, when Peter Jackson did that movie, he tried to find the two girls. Without "Heavenly Creatures", the true identity of Anne Perry might never have been revealed.

Personally, I don't mind her writing crime novels. Anne Perry's Monk- and Pitt-novels are among my favourite crime novels actually. I don't care whether she's trying to conquer some inner demons by writing, I don't care whether any relations of Honora Parker are offended by her writing crime novels. She's doing an awesome job writing fantastic novels with gripping, interesting characters. Sounds harsh? Sorry but - you can't please every single person in this world. There's ALWAYS someone who's gonna be offended by something you say or do or don't say or do. I like Anne Perry's novels and if any relation of Honora Parker got a problem with that - it's their problem, not mine.

If you got a problem with Perry earning her living by writing crime novels, simply don't buy them. To be honest, I was a bit shocked to find out Anne Perry was Juliet Hulme. That's not the reason why I haven't bought any of her novels for the past few years, however. It's simply that I don't know which ones I already got and which ones I don't. Can't buy duplicates, right? ;)

Personally, I think she would have chosen some kind or other of creative job anyway. With all that creativity (judging from the girls' portrayal in the movie) and talent she had even as a young girl it would have been surprising for her not to do so. When I was watching that movie (I'm writing myself or rather, trying to), I couldn't help thinking: "OK, those girls were definitely very, very wrong, maybe even mad. But, heck, what wouldn't I give to have just a tiny bit of their imagination!"

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In some ways, it does seem odd that a convicted murderess is writing crime novels, but I've only read a couple and truth be told, I've read much more disturbing things by Stephen King, John Saul, and even Patricia Cornwell. Hers are historical fiction mostly and the focus is on her detectives.
I think Jackson should be ashamed for outing her as he did. Before the movie, Anne Perry's identity was never connected publicly to Juliet Hulme, and Anne was already an accomplished writer at the time.
I had the opportunity to attend a reading by Anne Perry at the University of Central Arkansas last year, and I admit I went mainly because I was curious. She seemed to be a lovely person and I had trouble reconciling the woman I saw with the story I knew.
Obviously both girls had very vivid imaginations-it's not surprising that she grew up to be a writer. Frankly I applaud her for making her own way; she did change her name and tried to make a new life for herself as an adult. Kudos to Pauline as well for being an accomplished equestrian. They are both doing the best they can to move forward with their own lives--you can't undo what has been done but you can strive to be the best you can moving forward.

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"Sound harsh?"

Saying that you don't care that family members of a woman who was brutally murdered get upset because you enjoy reading the books and it doesn't affect you. Yeah thats harsh and, dare I say it, a little heartless.

"Theres ALWAYS someone who's gonna by offended by something you say or do"

There is a difference between saying something that might offend somebody and doing something that will almost definitely further upset and hurt people who have been through grief that most of us can't even imagine.

Also to be clear Peter Jackson never publicly revealed that Anne Perry and Juliet Hulme were the same person it was a journalist who found that out.

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"Saying that you don't care that family members of a woman who was brutally murdered get upset because you enjoy reading the books and it doesn't affect you."

Quote me an article, an interview or any proof that the family members of Parker ARE upset by Anne Perry writing crime novels and I'll apologise. What I was aiming at is: They don't seem to be upset about it, so why should I if THEY don't seem to mind?

Even if they are upset, I'm very sorry for them but I still won't stop reading her books. To them, she might be a vile murderess. To me, who's so totally unconnected to them, she's at best an interesting case study. That, too, might sound heartless to you. I do feel sorry for their loss but more on an intellectual level. There's so many people dying and being brutally murdered every day and I am sorry for that, too. I think it shouldn't happen but unfortunately, I'm in no position to change that. You don't expect me to get worked up about every single one of them, do you? Of course, one probably should but then, how could you go on with your daily life?

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I was probably being a bit presumptuous when I said they would definitely get upset but I think there is a strong chance it would upset them as family members of murder victims often talk in interviews of being upset every time they see something which reminds them of the killer or the killer is in the news.

Some of your comments in your first post seemed a bit heartless to me eg. "I don't care if any relations of Honora Parker are offended by her writing crime novels" but your second post is perfectly reasonable and I agree that can't get upset about every tragedy in the world or you would ruin your own life.

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Saying that you don't care that family members of a woman who was brutally murdered get upset because you enjoy reading the books and it doesn't affect you. Yeah thats harsh and, dare I say it, a little heartless.


It's neither, actually. But nice job trying to make someone feel bad for their choice of reading material.

There is a difference between saying something that might offend somebody and doing something that will almost definitely further upset and hurt people who have been through grief that most of us can't even imagine.


Explain to me how writing FICTION is definitely going to upset and hurt the family in question. I could understand if she were writing stories about this incident and downplaying the tragedy, but that isn't the case at all.

Not to mention this happened 60 years ago. If someone in the family is still grieving, they need serious psychological help. Grieving for 60+ years is not healthy, nor is holding a grudge for that length of time.

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I wasn't commenting on reading material. I was commenting on her saying she doesn't care if Honora's family get hurt by it.

The family are likely to get upset for the reasons I've already said. Family's of murder victims often say they feel traumatized whenever they see the murderer or a story about them. Having to see their name in a book shop or being interviewed on the tv is likely to have the same reaction.

There is no time limit for grieving. Most people never stop grieving they just get used to missing the person. This is especially true after murder. The fact Honora spent her last moments in agonizing pain, knowing her own daughter was inflicting this on her has not changed just because a long time has passed. If that was your mother would you really stop feeling sad about that?

As for Anne Perry downplaying the tragedy. She said she's been forgiven where it matters so it didn't happen anymore.

To be clear, I never said that people shouldn't read her books. I'm not even saying I feel that strongly about her choice to write about murder. I just don't dismiss anyone who find it distasteful for a violent killer to write about violent murders + ponder how this might effect the victims family as not having any valid points.

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I see the orginal poster's point.

I think that she would be cashing in if she were writing under her given name. If you go to her webpage and read her "About the Author" section she states where she was born, mentions living in New Zealand at the age of 13 when she fell ill again and makes not mention of her friendship with Pauline and the incidents that follow.

So I think it's okay what's she's doing. We don't know how the inner torment is effecting her as I'm sure it must.

The video included on this site of her talking about no one knowing she was Juliet, is that part of a larger work? I wonder where someone could find the rest.

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It's quite bizarre that someone would have a change of name, presumably for privacy reasons as opposed to fictional author names, only to then start making it publically known who they actually are.


Not odd at all. Lots of writers use pseudonyms.

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And I have to agree my first post probably did sound kinda heartless. I'm sorry, I sure didn't mean it like that. Problem is, I'm not an English native speaker and even though my English is good, sometimes it's a bit difficult to properly express what I mean.

I sure wouldn't read Anne Perry's novels - and enjoy them - if I felt stronger about the murder of Honora Parker because I was part of the family or a good friend of her. But as I'm not ...

Besides, Perry's novels are "morally right", meaning that the "bad guy" is always caught and punished in some way or another. It's not like she glorifies murderers. THAT would be wrong. At the same time, her novels aren't plain black and white. But in all her novels that I've read, it's always made clear that killing someone is wrong, no matter what motive you might have had.

Judging from that, I think Perry really does think it was wrong to murder Honora Parker and she's truly sorry for what she did and not just feigning it. If she is, I say she deserves a second chance.

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She was 15 when it happened, are you the same person now as you were when you were 15?
Also, take into account 'folie a deux', if she had never met Pauline Parker it is quite likely that she would never have even thought about taking a life, and the same goes for Pauline Parker.

When you say you see no convincing demonstration of remorse, what are you expecting? A note in the front of every book she writes saying sorry? For her to publicly flagellate herself? It may haunt her dreams and she might wake up screaming every night for all you know.

I've never seen her on tv advertising her books, and I think it would be hard for most people to recognise her from a murder which happened 55 years ago.

I am actually spending this evening with her, I'm not sure if we're allowed to mention what happened though.

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I don't disagree with everything you say mitch-174 but in interviews she has done talking about the crime Anne Perry does not show anything more than slight remorse followed by excuses.

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It was 60 years ago. Do you expect her to break down and cry every time it comes up? Seriously.

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I would expect her to still consider what she did to be something she regrets + not say it was something that didn't happen anymore.

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The fact she was 15 when it happened is frankly, more scary!!

To actually make real a fantasy takes some sort of damaged mind. I do take into account the folie a deux element, certainly, and it can have a powerful impact but there's a vast difference between wishing someone out of the equasion and actually realising it.

This was of course a carefully executed crime, (save the slight oversight that Pauline was divulging the entire plan to an easily-discovered diary!), not one bourne out of impulse - if it were I may have had a better understanding of it but there were several opportunities for both girls to recognise the true horror of what they were planning and have a change of heart/come to their senses.

What, above all, shocks me is the seeming lack of regard that Juliette Hulme has demonstrated in persuing a writing career on the matter of fictional crime. Surely you cannot deny it lacks respectability?

When you say you see no convincing demonstration of remorse, what are you expecting? A note in the front of every book she writes saying sorry?


I'd prefer it infinitely had she just not gone down that route of writing crime per se. It shows ill regard for her victim and her victim's family. I say she shows no remorse because as the previous poster notes, there appears to be nothing much more than excuses in that interview.

I am no vigilante and I am a very forgiving person by nature. This is not by business at the end of the day but i feel the need to speak out for others who may be unable to because they are so sickened by it and wish to forget. Something they can't do all the time this woman is flogging her books and profitting by writing (albeit indirectly), about something she has physically inflicted upon another person and destroying a family in the process, no doubt.

Imagine if it was your mother. Would you still be happily supporting her chosen career or see it as an arrogant slap in the face?

I don't wish the woman any harm, I grant you. But I do think she should have chosen a different life and kept a low profile. If she did feel compelled to write then maybe she should have written about her criminal actions and attempted to give something back - the profits for any book sales going to the family or a charity (I doubt the family would want her blood money, quite frankly).

Just my opinion though

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I do understand how you feel - It is all very ironic writing about crime novels when you have actually served time for murder yourself!

I don't think I would of had such a problem with it if:

a) They had served more time. When I first heard about this case, I thought the pair were still locked in jail. Forgive me, but it does not matter that these girl were only 15. It was a planned, cold blooded murder which was so brutally taken into action. The poor woman suffered tremendous pain, and in no way deserved what happened to her. Those girls should have been locked up for at least 20 years. Heck, I live in NZ, and I know first-hand that we are WAY to lenient with criminals, but this was in the 50's. They should have either been incarcerated for a very long time, or hung. It is as simple as that.

b) that I was actually reading an Anne perry book at the time I saw the film. One of my friends had recommended her to me, and I was actually enjoying it. The minute I found out that these stories had come from the woman he so cruelly murdered her best friends mother in cold blood AND got away with it so easily, I immediately took it back to the library. I refuse to read anything of hers.

Also, in many interviews, Anne Perry seems almost 'smug' about the whole thing. Sorry, but I just refuse to accept that this woman turned out to be a successful novelist, and earning millions for works of fiction, about crime.

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Very well said Ducky.

I congratulate you on your sense and sensibility.

Here, have a hug

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I thought it was believed to be widely known, certainly in New Zealand literary circles for some time that Anne Perry was actually Juliet Hulme, if you think about it, given Bill Perry was known to be her Step Father (to be) back at the time of the events she didn't work that hard to concela who she was.
It's simply the fact that the film was made before that there had been a play in NZ, but it wasn't widespread around the world, it was a long forgotten event for most of the world, outside New Zealand I'd imagine untril Jackson made the film, also the fact that since the film he's become even more successful means the film and consequently those involved have got more publicity whether they want it or not.
Incidentally I was in WH Smith's the other day, and saw an Ann Perry book, I didn't buy it, and have never read any of them but I looked inside, you'll be surprised to know, no mention is made of who Anne Perry is, in it.

I don't critiscise her, because she needs to make a living, and the fact she did it as she has done is more about her talent than about her part in the murder, and it's fair to say she was successful, and pretty rich well before she was outed as Juliet Hulme.

On another point, did Jackson's focus on the girls wrtings and dreams a bit of a hidden or inside nod to what had become of Juliet?

Afterall in the writing piece at the end, where he said they were both released in about 1959 he says nothing more than Juliet had gone overseas to join her Mum, and nothin is said at all of what became of Pauline.

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I take your points.

Thanks for sharing your views, all of which make for an interesting read

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"On another point, did Jackson's focus on the girls wrtings and dreams a bit of a hidden or inside nod to what had become of Juliet?"

The extensive writings and diary entries of both girls were tendered into evidence at their trial and formed a major plank in proving premeditation so Jackson was simply faithfully depicting the importance of the girl's own written words in convicting them and giving an insight into their state of mind leading up to the murder.

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I realize it's been a few months since this thread was updated but wanted to throw in my two cents.

First of all, to highpriestess32, this is a great thread, and your original post was very thoughtful and well-written.

The one thing I would add that I haven't seen written anywhere here is that people seem to blame Anne Perry for getting out of jail before she served enough time (it could be argued that no amount of time would ever be enough). You may be angry at the justice or prison or court system for her only serving 5 years, but that's not her fault. Therefore, once she got out of prison, what do we expect from her? No matter how horrible the crime is - and it IS horrible, perhaps unforgivable - I don't know what she should be expected to do once released from prison. Living in a small village in Scotland and writing mystery novels seems to me to be a rather innocuous way for her to live out her days.

I could see the bitterness that she has become rich and famous by writing novels having to do with murder, but would her freedom and fame be easier to swallow if she were writing romance novels, or sci-fi, or any other genre? I doubt it.

While it is of course reasonable (and very appropriate) to be angry at Ms. Perry or hate her because of her crime, I don't think it's fair to blame her for her freedom, which is beyond her control.

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Hi and thank you for your considered input to the thread, TwilightEH

I'm not exactly sure how long she spent in prison and you are of course right in that you can't incarcerate a person forever. I don't really have that much of an issue about time served (even though I have lazily implied it during certain posts), I am avidly against the Death Penalty and loathe vigilantes.

My gripe has really only ever been in regards to her chosen path and in all honesty I think it would have been quite harmless had she chosen to write about other genres. She served her time and she has to make a living. I just feel that if her niche is for writing, she could have avoided the genre of crime for the reasons stated.

Have a good day and thanks for the input my friend - always good to read the views of other, intelligent posters!

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I agree that it seems very insensitive, her writing about crime. I mean, obviously, writing is a passion for her and I know she served her time and she should be allowed to live her life and have a career and everything but still, it does seem like a slap in the face, like "Ha-ha. I killed someone and now I'm gonna make money off of writing about people doing the same!" It's something very unsettling about that.

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I just saw your sig on another board, Moon and recognised your name! How spooky! It was the Misery board after Degree7 just mistook me for a man LOL!

Of all the boards in all the world...

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She writes fiction and the stories focus on the detectives, not the criminals.

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I'm late in joining this thread, too, since this is a story I've known for a long time, and a movie that I've loved for a long time. I first knew that Juliette was Anne Perry when a friend of mine commented on a radio interview that she had recently heard - she said the person concerned was now a famous mystery writer, but she couldn't remember her name. She thought it was Ruth Rendell (my favorite writer, absolutely, to whom I would bow and curtsey if I ever met her, although I know Americans don't do this). I was horribly shocked and denied it vehemently - though I still did not know who the mystery writer was and I know very little about Lady Rendell's early life. We had this discussion in a Books-a-Million store! We were able to go from one section to another and find out that the author in question is Anne Perry.
I think that Ms.Perry was quite naive if she really thought that her identity would remain a secret. As she became more well-known as a writer, she should have made some kind of statement to the public, stating who she is. I don't read her books - I don't care for Victorian-era mysteries - but I do not see any evil aspect there, in the fact that she writes murder mysteries. My main complaint with her is the fact that she actually tried to cover the fact that she is a convicted murderess. I can understand that she does not want to discuss it publicly. I simply think that she was not honest with the people who were her readers and fans.

Yodi

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Hi, SGJan81,

Thanks for your input.

I think many authors use pseudonyms but mainly because some have very uninspiring names like "Bob Smith" lol!

Interesting point about Hulme however. Arguably she could have gone either way with it - write under her criminal name and risk people boycotting her books as opposed to buying them in spades out of curiosity - or adopt a pseudonym as she did either because she was deliberately hiding beneath it or simply because she wanted a different "artistic" name.

But she has revealed herself on a few occasions here in the UK. There's a link to an interview on this thread and she also appeared on UK magazine programme "This Morning" some years back. Her reasons for this are unknown to me but she was promoting a novel on the latter programme. Maybe she had been outed by somebody and wanted to get her side of it across (although she spoke very little of the crime on This Morning), or maybe sales of her books were flagging. Also it has been half a century since the New Zealand murder so maybe she felt it was the right time being that the generation of that time had possibly moved on.

Either way I just find it abhorent that she persued this path and totally without regard for her victim and the relatives. The point that seems to stand at present is her apparent lack of remorse. She speaks about her crime quite dispassionately and in a matter-of-fact way.

Her TV appearances may have piqued some curious interest as to her written work but I personally refuse to spend a penny on lining her pockets. That's just me, however. I wouldn't judge others if they bought her books - many folk are probably still unaware of her past as it did happen in the 1950's. I would have known nothing of it had it not been made into a movie!

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Hi, Highpriestess and thank you for your reply to my comment. This subject has remained in the brain for several days, and has brought up some questions, to which I admittedly do not know the answers. My "blanket" belief is that people in the public eye should do their jobs, and that we really have no right to know anymore about them. For instance, the recent Jesse James/Tiger Wood disclosures. It could be argued that Tiger Wood did owe an apology and an explanation, since he has been looked upon as a great role model for many years. Others would argue that it is still a private matter, and nothing is "owed" to the public. James, on the other hand, has not been set up as a role model - he did what he did, but it is a private matter between him and his wife. That I can see. However, the timing of the revelations was exceedingly cruel and humiliating to a star who has done her job well for years.
So -- how much do we have a right to know? If a star is all over the tabloids and whatever has happened has been photographed and reported upon, well, that's that. Then it gets harder.
Professional althletes?
TV Evangelists?
Politicians?
Elected public officials?
Children's TV entertainers?
A star's religion?
As I said, I don't know. But if a person is in the public eye - well, it's just a case-by-case thing. In this case, if I had to say, the correct way of handling this might have gone something like this. Anne Perry begins her career as a novelist, then starts to become popular and have a following. So, at this time, she issues a statment: Hello, I am mystery writer Anne Perry. When I was a young girl, I was a participant in a crime for which I was convicted and sentenced. I was jailed, and later, released. Possibly, some might realize that it is difficult for me to write about or speak about this period of my life. I plan to continue to write books, and my hope is that people will continue to read them. Sincerely, Anne Perry .
That gives people enough info to find out the details for themselves. But it is still honest.
The magazine interview with Pauline was distressing to me. She is not in the public eye, and the feeling was she had been hunted down and rooted out, so that the public could know her story.
This subject is very, very gray and not black and white. I would be interested in reading other peoples' thoughts on the subject.


Yodi

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Highpriestess, thank you for the kind words! I agree that it is always nice (and perhaps too rare) to have a civil, intelligent discussion on the IMDB with people who can actually think and spell :)

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I agree and thanks for helping to keep the discussion civil!

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Hi again SGJan81,

Interesting comments/observations as before, thank you for reflecting so we can consider the implications you raise further.

It has indeed always been a bit of a grey area and whereby we can almost condone some forms of intrusion into the lives of celebrities, we also condemn the media for intruding on more "privatly-living" celebrities.

I do think Tiger Woods' infidelity should have been kept as a private issue but this came about because one of his conquests spoke out I believe. It was probably naive of him to assume this wasn't going to happen at some point since there are plenty of women only too willing to sleep with a star and thereafter publicise it to garner their five minutes of fame.

There are then those celebrities who I don't sympathise with. For example, the likes of UK model Katie Price who practically sells every aspect of her private life via her myriad of weekly tabloid interviews and her reality show. The difference here is that nobody is interested in her trivial life and people are now boycotting the magazines she constantly appears in. We are beyond tired of seeing her face and seeing headlines screaming out another (non) "Exclusive"!

But I think with Hulme, we have to analyse why she gave these interviews after years of silence. If it was her idea to front up then one would have thought that she would have used the opportunity to show some remorse. Considering that to be a successful writer one has to have a certain way with words, one would expect her to have delivered her message more eloquently. Instead, we see a rather cold woman sat in the back of an interviewer's car (a rather strange place for an interview unless this clip was a segment of a documentary), acting in a rather contemptuous manner. That's certainly how she was perceived by many, myself included.

Maybe she is remorseful but simply can't express herself as well in a spoken interview. But as far as I was concerned, her verbal delivery was tantamount to the physical action of a large shoulder shrug. Almost a case of 'Get over it'!! Of course, that is merely my personal perception. She may secretly be profoundly remorseful but her interview was quite ambiguous. It certainly didn't seem indicative of a woman who was full of self-loathing and regret.

It's left it rather open - hence the interest we all have shown in this discussion (of which the tremendous responses and contributions have astonished me!). It seems to indicate that quite a few followers of this tragic case are equally keen to uncover Hulme's psyche.

I personally came away from watching that snippet with more questions than I entered into it with!

But I suspect people are still buying her books so maybe she doesn't feel the need to lay down her innermost thoughts in a way some of us would have hoped she might. It's not as though the likes of many posters on here, myself included, are waiting to stamp on her or harrass her. From my perspective, I am merely interested in what drove her to play a part in this folie a deux.

She did say Pauline was going to kill herself over the situation of their threatened separation but even so, most "normal" folk woud not have gone to those incomprehensible extremes. I'm tempted to believe that the two girls were so deeply entranced and embroiled in their fantasy world that they struggled to separate that from the brutal reality of what they were doing. She obviously has a very vivid imagination [Hulme] in order to write fiction per se.

I don't suppose you have a link to the Pauline Yvonne Parker interview have you? I hadn't even realised she had given one! Now that would make for an interesting read!

Thanks again, have a lovely weekend,

Lo

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P.S. The interview link was in another thread (not sure I put it in this one actually!).

In case you haven't watched it, allow me to republish it here my friend! I'd be interested in your thoughts!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_oYT9mvChw

Best wishes,

Lo


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WOW !! and thank you HP !! It does make a great deal of difference in trying to determine her attitude to actually see her and hear her voice. The friend who told me about this originally (in the Books-A-Million) said something to the effect that the writer seemed really uncaring and tried to make light of what she did. (Then my friend said "she helped hit this woman in the head with a brick about forty times ! That sounds pretty serious to me.")

Props to Ian Rankin for hanging in there with the tough questions. I had the feeling that he was not satisfied, either. She tried to distance herself from what she had done (helped another person) when the diaries made clear that she had helped to plan it from the get-go. She seemed to be making excuses for herself (my parents' marriage was breaking up, we were getting ready to leave the country, Pauline would have committed suicide if I hadn't helped her, etc). Then it was I felt, I thought, I did my time, I would have suffered more if I had had to stay longer in jail. She never said a word about the poor woman and the rest of her family. She never said that she had held the brick in her hand, had put it inside the hose, had carried it, and had swung it to hit her victim enough times so that she herself was covered in blood. I had no feeling of real remorse, regret, empathy. No words to the effect that what she had done would always haunt her, and the feeling of guilt was still with her.

I felt that, in her mind, someone else had committed the crime. That someone had been convicted and punished, and now that was over, and she was no longer that person. Who knows what kind of psychiatric help she has had and how her treatment may have shaped her attitudes.

I watch lots of "true crime" on TV, and have seen criminals try to weasel out of what they have done, make excuses, etc. But I have also seen some who cried during their confession, expressed great regret, and said over and over that they would turn back time if they could.

The English are world-famous for their quiet reserve. And Americans have come to expect lots of yelling and screaming everywhere from the reality programs, which are staged, to real criminal investigations. I hope that in her heart of hearts, Ms. Perry knows and admits to herself that the crime happened and that she did, in fact, help to kill someone. She does, in fact, have to deal with it somehow to be able to live a useful life and continue to write, since she does have lots of fans and her writing is enjoyed by many. She has every right to that. But what happened in the past can't just be stapled into a brown paper bag and put in the back of the top shelf of the pantry.

Pauline, on the other hand, had a very different affect and demeanor. It has been years ago, but it seems that I remember still photos and reading an article, which would probably have been in our "People" magazine. Then, again, it may have been part of a television program. I remember her in a round, fenced area with her horses, all covered up, very shy, and seemingly ashamed. She seemed to be in a self-imposed exile, almost nun-like, working with her horses and did not seem to be close to anyone, family or friends. I felt sorry for her. The author of the article (or narrator of the program) gave the impression that the questions had been answered; now people knew where she was and what she was doing, and she should be left alone and not be bothered by the press again.

I still remember the way that I felt when my friend said she thought the author was Ruth Rendell. I felt horrified, unbelieving, betrayed. Some readers feel very close to the writers that they admire. They have come to trust them. I trust Baroness Rendell, although I have never met her or talked to her, and probably never will. I believe that her books tell us her story, and that is the way she prefers it to be.

I learned a great lesson some years ago. I read that James Brown had been arrested and was in jail, and I read about his crime. When I talked to my brother about it, he told me, " . . . . ., we've just got to realize that some of these people we idolize are not all nice people." My brother was able to find his address in jail and wrote to him often while he served his sentence. He committed crimes, and we knew about them. He still was a genius and a great entertainer. But he was honest.

This discussion has been great !! The movie remains one of my favorites, and both actresses did wonderful jobs with their roles. The real story stays with us, along with knowing the fact that there are aspects of it that we will never know. It remains a cautionary tale that should not be forgotten; and it's true that the truth is stranger than fiction.




Yodi

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It's certainly true to say there is a detached coolness about Anne Perry and I too felt there was an element of someone else/another time about it.
Regarding Pauline Parker well she seems a rather strange woman from the few accounts I've seen.
One curious point about her is this she seemed all too willing to have an animal put down without too much thought, she is devoutly religious but - many people have and continue to commit murder and justify it in the name of religion so I don't buy that too much.
By all accounts she's had a sad life and has paid more of a price than Juliet.
Curiously both women deny homosexuality but neither woman ever married.....

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I agree with you, tgrrrsss, there is a detached coolness about Anne Perry. She's tried to push it under the rug & religion has helped, but I bet she wakes up every morning wondering why she did what she did as a teenager.


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I think it's disgusting that she murdered someone and went on to be free and become a successful novelist. She should be writing stories from prison.

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I've worked in a library for almost 12 years so I know who Anne Perry is. Her books are pretty popular at my work. I was shocked when I found out yesterday who she really is. It is creepy to find out that she writes crime novels. I would not purchase one of her books now that I know who she is. I watched some interviews of her last night and I don't think she really seems sorry for what she did. If I was Honora's family I would be upset to find out that a person who killed my mother was now a famous author.

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I just thing everything about it is morally reprehensible and I agree that your findings left you feeling that it was inappropriate too!

"Has anyone seen my wife?" - Columbo

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If more people knew who she really was maybe (hopefully) they wouldn't buy her books anymore.

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She was on a UK chat show some years ago. Not sure if that's on YouTube or not but she was promoting her book then!! I think she was treated with a degree of sympathy if I recall correctly!

"Has anyone seen my wife?" - Columbo

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I had an Anne Perry book in my pile and then saw the movie years ago…then I put the two together and sold the book to my local used book shop. I would not read it. I don't care how good a novel it is. There was no justice served.

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The thing is, Lara, I'm not even one of those types of people who seek retribution and think that people should go on paying for a crime forever but it has always been the sheer undetectable remorse in these interviews that drove me to this opinion and of course the absolute lack of morality in her methods of making money. I wouldn't even discredit a reader from buying her material, I just discredit Perry for putting it out there.

"Has anyone seen my wife?" - Columbo

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Hi everyone,

I just watched the movie, read a bit about the case and watched excerpts from Perry's interviews (the few I could find on Youtube where she actually talked about the case and not her books) and I must say I'm not sure what to feel. I understand that you would not want to buy her books, although I would be interested in reading one of her novels out of curiosity, and I do feel it is unfair because she seems to have had it pretty easy.

On the other hand, I disagree with the impression she gives in the interview with Ian Rankin. She is indeed very cold and cool about the topic, but she does talk about paying for her crime and how 5 years was not too long. Of course she says "Had it been a lot longer it might have broken my ability to rebuild myself". In my opinion it is a fact that when you serve a long time in prison, away from the world, it is difficult or even sometimes impossible to become a part of it again, but that does not mean she thinks she shouldn't have served longer. And then it raises the question of the purpose of prison: should it just be about punishment? About "curing" people who commit serious crimes and rehabilitating them for our society? As Perry says, about preventing other people from wanting to do the same? Or all of the above?
About her behaviour in the interview, I feel like her coolness might be shame or just shyness. I know several people who just do not know how to express their feelings when they are too strong, but it doesn't mean they don't have them. For example it has taken years for my mother to admit to something she did wrong when I was younger, and even when I felt she was finally coming to understand what went wrong, she couldn't utter the words. Maybe it is the same with Perry.

I'm not saying she feels remorse because I don't know, but I do agree with ScottBBT: once she was released, what was she supposed to do? As someone said earlier in this thread, I think it would have felt just as wrong (at least to me) if she had become a famous romance novelist, so I'm not sure choosing a different genre would have been better. Maybe choosing a more discreet life altogether... You could argue that Parker did a much better job at showing remorse and punishing herself in a way, because she seems to have lived like a hermit. But maybe Perry felt such remorse that building a good life for herself was the only way to cope. Same with the detachment, maybe she has to talk about the events like they weren't part of her life to move on. But also, maybe she is just the monster some people think she is.


Anyway, sorry for the unorganised reply, and thanks for the post, it has made me think about a lot of ethical questions!

A.

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That is OK, I thank you for your thoughts as it makes for an interesting discussion so thank YOU for taking the time to compose your reply, it isn't at all disorganised or disjointed. I found it very interesting to read

"Has anyone seen my wife?" - Columbo

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You work at a library and would refuse to read a work by someone who did something immoral? You must not do much reading.

I watched some interviews of her last night and I don't think she really seems sorry for what she did.


Why should anyone care how you feel about it? I don't feel good about Karla Homolka walking around free. I don't think she feels sorry for what she did, but that's entirely irrelevant to the fact that she served her time.

If I was Honora's family I would be upset to find out that a person who killed my mother was now a famous author.


Why would that upset you?

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