MovieChat Forums > Farinelli (1995) Discussion > Re those 'tag-team' sex scenes ....

Re those 'tag-team' sex scenes ....


I just saw the DVD for the 1st time. Interesting movie, beautifully cast and produced, lovely music, but in the end, a bit hollow. The psychology of the characters was, imo, not particularly well developed.
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One question in particular:
Why did they think they had to have both Carlo (Farinelli) and Riccardo (his brother) in on the sex scenes? Unless there is some historical evidence the two Broschis actually practiced this sort of sex, I don't see the point, except (presumably) to excite the audience's prurient interest. From all I've read (not all that much, admittedly) castrati did OK in the sex department quite well without needing the help of "real" men to complete the act. They were, in fact, very popular with the ladies -- in the cliche, the rock stars of the day, and, like rock stars, they had plenty of groupies.
The fact that a woman could have an affair with a castrato without any fear of getting pregnant I would assume attracted rather than detracted, in an age when there was no reliable birth control, so why would you want to risk a pregnancy by bringing in a second lover?
I do understand why both Broschis would be involved in the final sequence with Alexandra -- clearly both Alexandra and Carlo wanted a child, and Riccardo was the means to get one -- but in the earlier sex scenes, Riccardo struck me as an unnneeded third wheel.
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(I'm assuming that much of the Carlo-Riccardo relationship as presented in this film was fictional any way.)

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The sharing of the brothers' sex-scapades is in dispute amongst scollars but most lean to the theory that they did indeed share everything this way. Riccardo was the older brother who had been taking care of Carlo most of his life which is why Carlo in some way feels obligated to let him in on his fame. In all fairness, Riccardo did create the superstar phenomenon Farinelli.
Also, Riccardo was nothing more than a mediocre composer who spend his whole life trying to make a breakthrough by writing an opera that would only be singable for his brother's voice. However, he never did and Carlo might actually have felt sorry for him and therefore let him have this little piece of stardom.

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Yes, it looked like Carlo was quite capable of sexual relationships, although it was suggested that the two together were better than apart. But I think Riccardo was the one benefitting from the 'pact'. I imagine that when they were younger, Riccardo had more to bring to the relationship between the brothers in general. He'd have been the money earner, and I suppose the first to attract women. Later the balance changes - Carlo has the greater talent musically and is the star. Sexually it seems to be similar. From what we see, Carlo is a skilled lover, and Riccardo more mundane. I think it's suggested that Riccardo wouldn't have so much success with women on his own. He relies on Carlo to take care of the courtship, the 'warming up' and even the orgasm, while he 'plants the seed', the one thing that Carlo can't provide.

Metaphorically, I suppose Riccardo planted the seed of the Carlo's talent.

I too, was puzzled by the women's willingness to risk pregnancy with Riccardo. The countess says that one of Carlo's attractions is that he's safe.

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I just viewed the movie for the first time, also, and tend to agree with Marjoriem's comments: "a bit hollow" in spite of being absorbing and beautiful, both visually and musically.

As for the "tag-teaming," I thought it was a metaphor: just as, to produce a new life, there must be the dazzling attraction of Carlo to get a receptive mate, and the potential of Riccardo to actually impregnate, so, in music, there must be the dazzling virtuosity to draw an audience in to listen and take note, and then there must be SUBSTANCE and true EMOTION in the music, or no lasting value results.

It was a bit stretched and labored, as a metaphor, if that is, indeed, what it was.

On the other hand, all the actors are so pleasant to look at, and so titillating to enjoy in such a situation, that it just may be one more instance of pampering us, as they did with the gorgeous sets and costumes and the luscious musical performances: "eye-candy" I think they call it.

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I'm also inclined to believe that there must have been a desire for the whole man because of the deficiency in a castrato's equipment. And condoms did exist in those days for those concerned about pregnancy or disease.

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> As for the "tag-teaming," I thought it was a metaphor:
> just as, to produce a new life, there must be the dazzling
> attraction of Carlo to get a receptive mate, and the potential
> of Riccardo to actually impregnate

It's been years since I've seen this movie, but I distinctly remember having the impression not other than the above-described: that was, as I remember it, the whole point of "tag-teaming". (The added benefit was that it was a bit titillating, at least for some in the audience - not just men, mind you).

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Metaphor aside, there is no real evidence that Riccardo was around to plant the seed, although such things could have happened. Privacy being what it is, you can imagine that there are not a lot of historical documents that describe these scenes. However, medically speaking, castrati were the "safe sex" of the upper class at the time when castrati were active and legal. They could perform and usually did, including orgasm. So there was no real need or necessity for Riccardo to be there. But on the other hand, promiscuity was not any different at that time than it is today, so naturally there were those who probably thought a brother act would be fun, and in such a case a "sheath" (condom) could be used. But sheaths were probably less fool proof than our modern condoms, which are hardly 100%, so the only really safe sex was a bona fide castrato.

If the operation were done before the age of 10, it would often (not always) produce a somewhat feminine male who could have a child-like penis, preteen feminine breasts and a lack of interest in sex, although many women of the upper class preferred these feminine men in their bed. If the operation were done after the 10th birthday and puberty had started, the man would have more manly characteristics. But you couldn't wait too long and even if preformed early, the operation didn't always preserve the voice. When the operation didn't take, the poor fellows were usually taken in by the church or given jobs of some sort in the opera industry. Farinelli was castrated at around 12, and had a particularly fine reputation with the women for endurance. This endurance came from the fact that although having manly organs and even hair, there was not as much sensation, so the castrato could have more endurance and also more interest in pleasing the woman instead of pleasing himself. No wonder the opera halls were filled with feminine cries of "Viva il coltello," (long live the knife).

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I have to agree on many of the points made so far, that is that it could be a metaphor and that it also might have been a historical fact (I don't know for sure as I haven't read up on that particular bit)

But something noone seems to take into consideration in this discussion is that yes a woman is 'safer' with the castrate but hasn't anyone seen porn movies lately, or even not so lately? The concept of 2 men with one woman is about as normal as 2 women with one man I would say.

I don't see why that would not be something that would have appealed to a woman in those days either, especially since they were much more liberated about their sexuality than we are nowadays. Having a lover (or even multiple) was nothing out of the ordinary in those times and certainly not even anything that had to be hidden too much, in some cases it was even expected and in the cases of many french kings the mistresses were even more famous than the original wives(Madame de Pompadour, Madame de Montespan, La Vallière, Madame du Barry etc). And women weren't far behind on the men in that respect so I certainly see where this is coming from and found it to come naturally in the movie (excuse the pun).

As far as birth control goes, if a woman would take any other love than a castrate, she would run that risk in any case and if she wanted a 3some she would run even double the risk (depending on who would where and so on ;-) ) so for a 3some she is still pretty safe I'd say.

I suppose the principle of '2for1' was popular in those days as well :-)

The one thing I found a bit ridiculous in the movie was the assumption that Riccardo had to come in to 'finish the job'. That implies that either the sexual act is not finished till a male has had an orgasm or that women can only have an orgasm if the man has one too or that women can only have orgasms via penetration. All rather outdated assumptions I would say.


“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.”

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It is suggested elsewhere on the board that the relationship between Carlo and Riccardo is unusual. His brother castrates him and then they spends most of their youth like peas-in-a-pod. Having seen Corbiau's film The King Dances I think he attempts in both films to explore male relationships and feelings that don't fit the easy paradigm of homosexual. In both films there is musical genius and a tethering as a result of the genius.

As a very young man the pact to share women with Riccardo would have worked well for Carlo, who may not have been confident about women as a castrato then. Later it is an assumed habit that as older adults is symbolic of deeper things in their relationship.

Fatima had a fetish for a wiggle in her scoot

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There is actually a porno movie with an excellent tag-team sex scene.
Black Throat.

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Trust doesn't rust.
I am Error.

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