Anybody else think Polanski was robbed of a Best Film or Best Director Oscar during this year? Finally he was honoured for "The Pianist", but certainly in this particular year, and in comparison to the other nominees, I think DATM trounces the opposition
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well gee, thanks for generalizing and completely dismissing every single american as having his attitude and being a closed-minded moron.
why do you think so many americans act that way? have you ever thought that maybe they're so quick to defend themselves because they're being called morons or whatever?
you do know it's hard for someone to admit his wrong when he's being bombarded with insults and what not.
try something else instead of coming out and calling names please.
Roman Polanski is one of the great filmmakers of this or any time. But, he's a rapist and he deserves to be punished for his crime. His talent and wealth is not a get out of jail free card, and neither should France be. There's no such thing as a "consenting" 13 year old, and anyone who makes that arguement is sick and disturbed. These laws do not exist simply to annoy famous people who think they can do whatever they want, but in fact exist to protect the helpless and innocent from those who might corrupt them, and in this case to protect the young, helpless, and innocent from themselves. Yeah, I'm an American. Yeah, I'm a moron. Yeah, Chinatown is a masterpiece. Yeah, Roman Polanski should not be allowed to make another film for a couple of years while he pays for his crime. Yeah, people who hide from extradition in France are cowards and weak little men. But yeah, he makes good movies... the Ninth Gate aside.
shareperfectly said. The irony of this movie is very disturbing.
Yes, slanderous statements and vile, unfounded allegations such as the one about Polanski being a "rapist", are indeed "perfectly said". Guess the lunatics have finally overtaken the asylum after all.
"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan
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I'd say watch what you say, considering moderators of IMDB do frequent these boards and take reports very seriously.
You've been warned.
Roman Polanski, perhaps should have served his time, but one needs to remeber that the girl whom he had sex with may have been under 16, but the sex was consensual, and the girl, now a woman has spoken and says that she holds no grudge against Polanski. His films are far from bland, in particular The Pianst and Death and the Maiden are 2 of my all time favourite movies. It is somewhat refreshing to see the academy is not biased when awarding the Oscar to him for the Pianst.
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Again, there's no such thing as a "consenting" 13 year old. And it makes no difference what she says, or how she feels now. If I attempted to murder my boss, and he forgave me for it, I still sure as hell should go to prison.
shareWell, I came to the board curious if anyone else was wondering why Paulina would be with such an undeserving ass as Gerardo and I stumbled on this nonsense.
Yes, RP raped a 13 yr. old girl and NO it was NOT consensual. The girl, now a woman, was interviewed on CNN by Larry King in 2003. She was scared and let RP do what he wanted. For all you naysayers, I've inluded part of the transcript below. The link to the complete interview is below it.
To sum up the time leading up to the rape. RP asked to photograph the girl for a French magazine. There were two shoots. At the first shoot, nothing happened, but he made her feel uncomfortable. The second shoot, she wanted to bring a girlfriend along, but at the last minute he asked the girlfriend not to go. Her mom had no idea she was going alone.
At Jack Nicholson's house, they took a lot of pictures in different rooms. She was posing with champagne and drank some of it. He had her get in the hot tub topless and took pictures of her there. He got in the hot tub and...
LARRY KING: What'd you say?
SAMANTHA GEIMER: I said -- well that's when I realized that something was wrong. This doesn't feel right anymore. So I told him that I needed to get out of the hot tub and that he needed to take me home because the steam was giving me an asthma attack. I just made it up.
KING: You made it up?
GEIMER: Yes.
KING: But to get out you would have -- he would have had to seen you topless?
GEIMER: Oh, right, he photographed me topless. He'd seen me topless. I just was thinking, well this is very European, it must be all right.
KING: OK, so you -- what happened?
GEIMER: So I'm feigning my asthma attack, you know, I got out, put a towel on and everything. We walked in the house. And I was going, you know, I really don't feel good, I'm having trouble breathing. I don't remember exactly what I said.
KING: But you said drive me home?
GEIMER: And I was like, yes, I need to go home because I'm not feeling well. And then that progressed to, you know, eventually why don't you come in here an lay down into a very dark room and that's when I really realized, you know, what his intentions were.
KING: Did he forcibly rape you?
GEIMER: You know, I said no. I didn't fight him off. I said like, no, no, I don't want to go in there, no. I don't want to do this, no. And then I didn't know what else to do. We were alone. And I didn't want to -- I didn't know what would happen if I made a scene. I was just scared and after giving some resistance figured, well, I guess I'll get to go home after this.
KING: So you completed the sexual act.
GEIMER: Right.
KING: It was just straight sex, nothing else?
GEIMER: It was all kinds of...
KING: Did you ask you to do other things?
GEIMER: He did things and I didn't do anything.
KING: So he did but you didn't.
GEIMER: Right.
KING: But then did you get dressed, he did drive you home?
GEIMER: I got dressed, he drove me home.
KING: What was said in the car?
GEIMER: He asked me -- I was crying when he came back to the car. I went to the car. He went in to speak to -- I think Anjelica Huston came home and was quite perturbed...
KING: She was with Jack at the time?
GEIMER: ... to find him there, especially with me.
KING: She saw you?
GEIMER: Real quick because I just straight to the front door, hi, out...
KING: Waited in the car?
GEIMER: And then so I was kind of crying a little bit because I was upset, I was becoming more -- I was intoxicated. So he asked that, you know, you shouldn't tell your mom. We should keep this secret and we really didn't chat on the way home. We just drove back to my house with not a lot being said.
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Read the entire transcript here - http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0302/24/lkl.00.html
Thank you so much for posting this. A lot of people still don't understand how sex under the abuse of power is rape, or why statutory rape is such an evil crime.
Folks need to remember that this isn't a precocious 17 year old - she was a 13 year old girl who was pressured into sex by an adult.
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Philo's Law: To learn from your mistakes, you have to realize you're making mistakes.
I found "Death and the Maiden" to be an excellent movie! If I can find it again on TV, I will watch it again.
As for Polanski, I have no admiration for his private life. I believe what he did was wrong; nevertheless, this movie was so good. Can't help but admire his talent.
If he was Michael Jackson would u still say/judge that? You misinformed armchair judge and jury. Hey, how about the notion that a man's "turbulence" seperate from a man's art? Death and the Maiden was BRILLIANT
AND!!!!
he got NO recognition for it due to his "scandal"
You know what???
He is FROM the country in which he sought refuge in and resides now.
If YOU were ACCUSED of "raping" some 14yr old GROUPIE that had NO BUSINESS being in JACK NICHOLSON'S HOT-TUB in the first place...Wouldn't YOU go home too????
NO????"?:
LIAR!!!!!!!
Dude was perhaps, um framed.
U don't know, Judge!
Best filmmaker ever
what if Kubrick got caught red-handed with an under-aged Malcom Mcdowell in a tub, during the shooting of Clockwork Orange???"
Oh!!
Didn't know about that?
Does that change your opinon about him? Or do you think HIS movies are"bland" already??
ok, does not matter.
I need to chill
BUT REALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"His films are bland, pathetic, BORING and just plain horrible"????????????????????? POLANSKI?????????????????????
Just die dude
"A child molester simple as that.His films are bland,pathetic,boring and just horrible"
Really funny you put those two almost in the same line. Not a big deal though, it's pretty damn obvious the fact he is wanted for rape in U.S clouds your judgment a """bit""".... How else would you say something like that about one of the best film makers in history.
I'd suggest all who share this point of view to read a passage from One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, about how MacMurphy had molested a girl. A very colourful passage that says very clearly - it's not Macmurphy who was a molestor, but the girl. I wonder if that may also be true for Polanski...
The American people were the Iroquois, Navajo, Cheyenne, and many others.
They were robbed of everything!!!
Compared to the current leader of your country, Pinochet is an angel, admitedlly of a lower order...
Well, DATM certainly isn't bland, pathetic, boring or horrible. This is an excellent film and is directed very well. It stars gifted actors at the peak of their powers illuminating very strong and well written material. It is really a great film.
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This response is largely to NEWWASHBADBOY: (everyone else, yay, you liked it . . . but you didn't sound very excited . . . .)
Yes, Polanski was robbed. The prizes were for the quality of the film, and the direction, not a moral judgement upon his life. But hell, who the f*** takes Oscars seriously anymore? After the Lord of the Rings debacle, they're worthless. But I'm getting off track. Whilst Lord of the Rings is apalling, Death and Maiden is not; in fact, it is one of the greatest films ever. This is Shakespeare on screen. If you find it bland, then I'm sorry, you simply have no taste. Don't worry, I'm sure Jerry Springer is on T.V.
The cast is superb. Simply blinding. The writing is impeccable, and, incredibly (for a film), improves upon that of the play. Ariel Dorfman's play is kind of stodgy - he talks in his afterword:
"that distance is often the best ally of an author and that when we deal with events that are being enacted and multiplied in an immediate history, a danger always exists of succumbing to a 'documentary' or overly realistic approach, losing universality and creative freedom, trying to adjust the characters to the events unfolding around us than letting them emerge on their own".
In the play, he *is* guilty of this crime. It feels a little A, B, C every now and again. The scenes and acts, presumably supposed to add a sense of movement to the play, merely slow it down; Polanski's non-stop barrage just keeps the tension coming. This film does not let up. The rules keep changing, the characters keep re-relating and (unless some a**hole tells you), you have NO idea what's going to happen next. It is exciting, it is thought-provoking, and I cried on three separate occasions on my first sitting. Which I just don't *do*. It isn't a film; it's a mouth-organ for victims of oppressive regimes worldwide. Which, okay, is kind of cheesy - I wouldn't normally say that kind of thing - but it's a fair judgement in this case.
The film also alters the flow of events (I won't go into too much detail, in case you haven't seen it) - adding a few, swapping some perspectives round - which improve it enormously. We know characters are lying when they say certain things - we also know when they're telling the truth - the web of deceit, and truth and judgement is drawn tighter and more tangled. Our trust is undermined, at one point or another, in everyone, Paulina, Gerardo, and Dr Miranda. The film also dispenses (by its very form) with the trite 'mirror' scene at the end of Dorfmann's play, and his amibiguous "light which has a faint phantasmagoric moonlight quality". Polanski's opening/closing (brilliant brilliant brilliant) is infinitely superior.
Three actors, three characters, one hour forty-three minutes, one set, perhaps the greatest, most 'local' political drama, ever, and truly traumatic viewing. Not 'fun' - gripping, necessary. And neither 'boring' - I really do find that judgement offensive. The same way war in Iraq was 'boring', huh? Sorry to go on at you . . . but . . . well, someone needs to defend this film. And, you know, caring. About anything. Ever.
If you haven't seen it, get a copy. I'm damn p***ed off there's no DVD release in the U.K. Good rental libraries will have it on video. If you have seen it . . . well, didn't it do *anything for you*? Am I the only one who was moved by this?
There is also no DVD release in Germany, I think there is no DVD of this movie in Europe at all. I realy liked it, saw it on TV and I was moved alot. Especially the last scene gave me the goose bumps, it was very well done, the music fitted perfectly. Awesome movie and its a fu cking shame, that it got so little recognition. I hate the fu cking Oscars, who cares about them, a bunch of jurors picking the most popular movies, that says nothing about the quality of the film. And I absolutely agree with "the Lord of the Rings debacle", it pissed me off so fu cking bad!!
shareI would liken Polanski to another visionary that became somewhat exiled from Hollywood, Orson Welles.
shareI had always believed that Roman got away with a serious crime because he was well connected in Hollywood (Robert Blake, O.J., etc.). Then I found a documentary about the rape and subsequent events. The documentarian wanted people to know all of the facts about the case. I found out that Roman actually admitted he had committed rape, served time in prison for several months, submitted an appeal to have the conviction overturned. The judge in the case got a lot of press about how he handled the case. At the end he overruled the agreement that the prosecutor had with Roman. These people were actually interviewed on the documentary about how they felt about the entire case. The prosecutor was asked about his feelings on what the judge was going to do with Roman. He told Roman not to trust the judge, because he did not trust the judge. That is why Roman left the country. When the judge retired he was asked about this case and he said he felt he had done everything appropriately. He was wrong, he knew he was wrong but he refused to change his mind.
shareThere is french and polish releases available. Let me know if you need a link.
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come to my madness: www.marillion.com
Hey, no you're not the one. I religiously attended Polanski's season at the Cornerhouse in Manchester in 2004, and I certainly watched Death And The Maiden, and it is one of my all-time favourites. I adored Sigourney Weaver long before then, but this film has literally showed me what I couldn't quite put into words about her heroines. They're always strong, but they're nonetheless women, and you got to look deeper to see their vulnerability. She is the perfect cast. Kingsley is powerful, especially in the final scene when he confesses, and so is Stuart Wilson, again in the final scene. That scene is obviously pivotal for the entire film, and Polanski reached the same heights of emotional intensity, as with Chinatown. I struggle to imagine how people can not like it. Have you seen Macbeth? I think it is one of the best Shakespearean plays on screen.
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Roman Polanski is a great filmmaker. I love most of his films, such as Chinatown, Knife in the Water, and The Pianist...
But that doesn't make him any less of a rapist simply because he's a great artist.
Just like any bum off the street, if he had sex with an under age child, whether or not it was consented to is irrelavent. But because he's a great artist, people like to defend him.
I don't understand why people can't acknowledge that someone can be a sick bastard, and at the same time be a talented filmmaker. It's the same thing with Woody Allen.
Not at all, there is no problem of acknowledging that Polanski is 'a sick bastard'. I am not at all apologetic, but do you honestly want to take pride in the fact that we put him in jail, rather than in the fact that we have at least half a dozen of his films to admire and to study?
Besides, I already wrote on this forum, and indeed everyone today agrees that victim is not always the one who we assume to be such. OK, we may never know what exactly happened on that memorable day, but let's allow for a possibility that Polanski, the bastard he may be, is not particularly sick.
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This one's a very good movie, but there are at least three that should by all means be placed ahead of it - Pulp Fiction, Quiz Show and Little Odessa (and this is only counting American/English language films).
"facts are stupid things" Ronald Reagan