Anybody think point shaving goes on? I think Tony's point that not covering the spread is pretty unimportant to athletes who only care about winning and losing. However, I'm sure there are plenty of athletes at the college and pro level who would be willing and able to pocket some extra cash by making sure they don't cover the spread, without throwing (losing) the game.
sharePoint shaving definately happens. Around ten years ago a player at Arizona State got caught shaving points. It probably happens more than you or I ever want to know.
"What happens in the kitchen ends up on the plate"
Yea it still happens but it tends to happen at smaller schools. For example you would never see a player on Duke or Connecticut shave points. Players that shave points are usually players that have no chance at the NBA and are looking to make some quick dough.
shareWow,
You turn your back on a post after 4 months and then it wakes up again.
I wonder every time a game is close to the spread and something crazy happens like:
a kicker missing an extra point
a player missing the second free-throw in a 1 in 1 when the clock is winding down.
Seems like basketball would be the easiest game to fix too.
Baseball would be extremely easy to fix if your the pitcher. A pitcher has more of an impact on the outcome of a game than any other position in any sport.
shareNo way. If a pitcher starts to give up a game, he gets taken out. There are many other pitchers on the team. Sure, a closer could throw a game, but a situation where a closer has the entire game in his hands doesn't come along more than once or twice every two weeks. Even if that closer starts softballing, and, unless the hitter gets a homerun, 8 other guys can save the game with good defense.
I agree with the previous poster.... basketball might be the easiest game to mess with.
...and that's all I have to say about that.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/08/business/08leonhardt.html?ex=1299474000&en=504be6a5ef032106&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
check out this article. u of pa (#4 ranked university in the country for all you high school students--think about it) economist has study which essentially concludes that point shaving happens in about 5% of all college games.
The manager rarely takes the pitcher out until he gives up 6 or 7 runs (unless it's later in the game). By then the games pretty much in hand for the other team.
shareI'd say a Quaterback has more of an impact. Baseball pitchers get yanked all the time and if they're struggling.
Maybe. A pitcher has little in the defense or offense. They can serve them up, but the other team still has to hit it and put it where they ain't. And the pitcher is the guy most often pulled from a game than any other athlete, especially in this day and age of the 100 pitch limit. A quarterback has just as much, if not more than a pitcher.
This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.
why not.
'A piece of WHAT, Emmet? THE LAND? WHAT AM I A FARMER?!'-Wynn Duffy
Earman,
Point Shaving goes on all the time. Here's a list of past point shaving scandals:
1984-85: Four Tulane starters, including John "Hot Rod" Williams, and one reserve are accused of shaving points in two games. Two of the five players, Clyde Eads and Jon Johnson, are granted immunity and testify that the others also shaved points in exchange for cash and cocaine. Williams was acquitted and none of the players did jail time but the university shut down the program until the 1989-90 season.
Arizona State, 1997: Two players plead guilty to point shaving; the inquiry, dating back to games in 1994, shows that 15 of 22 fraternities turned up in records of illegal gambling ring on campus.
1947-1950: Thirty-two players at seven schools are implicated in a plot to fix 86 games. Included in the scandal are players from City College of New York and Kentucky (big names involved: Ralph Beard, Alex Groza and Sherman White).
1959-61: Thirty-seven players from 22 schools are implicated in point-shaving scandals (big names involved: Connie Hawkins and Jack Molinas).
1978-79: Organized crime figure Henry Hill and New York gambler Richard (The Fixer) Perry mastermind a scheme to fix nine Boston College games in concern with BC players Ernie Cobb, Rick Kuhn and Jim Sweeney. Kuhn, the only player convicted, serves two and a half years in prison for conspiracy to commit sports bribery and interstate gambling.
The 1992 and 1993 Final Fours were very suspicious.
Michigan lost both title games (to Duke, then to UNC).
In both games, the game swung in relation to both the point spread and over/under in the final minute of play.
1993 of course was most suspicious, given Webber's time-out and technical in the final seconds of the game (which did not lose the game directly, but put UNC far enough ahead the game was in the bag).
It was also revealed later that Webber had accepted "gifts" totalling over $320,000 from Ed Martin, a professional gambler in Detroit. (Martin claimed he never gambled on basketball, only ran illegal numbers games.)
There's no proof Webber was intentionaly shaving points, but weird plays in the final seconds of a close game, and players accepting $300,000+ from professional gamblers, makes you wonder.
Right JJ -
and how about undefeated UNLV loaded with LJ, Augmon, et al. get beat by Duke in the finals. Then a few years later we see pictures of those guys partying with mob guys while at UNLV.
And...
I just read that the starting tailback for Toledo's NCAA football team is being investigated for point shaving. He's a senior and was a lock as at 1st round NFL pick.
Here -
Friday, March 30, 2007
Toledo player charged in point-shaving scheme
Associated Press
DETROIT -- Federal authorities charged a University of Toledo football player Friday in connection with a point-shaving scheme.
Harvey "Scooter" McDougle Jr. recruited Toledo football and basketball players to participate in the scheme orchestrated by a Sterling Heights man identified only as "Gary," according to a criminal complaint filed in U.S. District Court.
McDougle was arraigned Friday on charges of participating in a bribery scheme to influence sporting contests, The Detroit News reported on its Web site. He was released on a $10,000 bond and a preliminary hearing was scheduled for April 20.
U.S. Magistrate Judge Virginia Morgan told McDougle he should not discuss the case with the media or anyone else.
The charge carries a sentence of up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine upon conviction.
"Gary" allegedly invited the athletes to gamble and dine at Greektown Casino in Detroit. One player was offered $10,000 to sit out a football game, while others received cash, groceries, merchandise and other gifts, the complaint said.
McDougle, a 22-year-old senior from East Cleveland, Ohio, told FBI investigators he received a car, telephone and other items of value from "Gary" but insisted he never changed the way he played to affect the outcome of games.
Assistant U.S. Attorney David Morris, who is handling the case, wouldn't confirm Friday whether more people would be charged in the case.
The complaint gave no indication that players threw any games as part of the scheme, the Detroit Free Press reported.
A message seeking comment was left with a spokeswoman for the U.S. Attorney's Office on Friday night.
And ...
ESPN.com news services
NEW YORK -- The FBI is investigating allegations that veteran NBA referee Tim Donaghy bet on basketball games over the past two seasons, including ones in which he officiated.
Defense attorney John Lauro confirmed Donaghy is under investigation but refused to comment on the allegations or the case.
According to a law enforcement official, authorities are examining whether the referee made calls to affect the point spread in games on which he or associates had wagered.
see here - http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=2943095&type=story
Wow, this thread is alive and kickin. Yep, no question it goes on. Just another reason I don't bet alot on sports.
31% of statistics are made up on the spot.
THANK YOU!
I was going to go nuts! Everybody mentioning all the shaving in history and everyone forgets the most recent one of college sports!! Ohh my, this was by far my favorite, probably because of my youth and I started betting on college hoops at this time.
They don't make this story seem as serious as it was. At one point, according to cbs back then, they had almost the whole starting lineup of that basketball team fixing games. Jesus, this was a team that would shoot under 18% in the first half in games vs. Eastern Michigan, Akron, Ball St and so on.
A more recent point- shaving controversy is going on now at the University of Northern Colorado. Have to remember that UNC is a D-1 school that will almost always have Harrah's/Rio, Casear's, BODOG. etc putting lines on their games. They played Denver earlier in the year and were -4.5 favorites with no more than 5 minutes before tip- off. About thirty seconds later, UNC went from -4.5 to +3.5. A seven point swing in under 5 minutes to go before tip- off was looked at closely by the chancellor, AD and so on with the school to see what happened after a local reporter brought it to their attention. A line moving seven points that quickly means somebody out there dropped a quantem amount of money on what was a meaningless game to the rest of the College hoops world.
Shaving happens everywhere and on almost every night. If you play at Idaho St, Northern Arizona, Weber St, UC Davis, Vermont......... and there is no national attention, cameras, heavy media, then what stops a player from shaving some points for money? Why not make an online, off- shore betting account under your friend's account and drop G after G after G on these meaningless games that nobody will see other than in a overall W/L column? I would think about it as a kid not making it to the NBA and on a sub- par, unnoticed team.
It seems to me that college basketball is the easiest sport to "fix" because of the nature of the game. We're not talking about winning and losing, but adjusting the point differential in the final score. If one team is supposed to defeat another easily, say, by 12 points, and actually wins by 10 points, it would not raise any interest. Players miss shots at the rate of 50% or more, so a cold streak shootin-wise occurs a lot. one or two players, especially ball handlers, could control the spread with out arousing too much suspicion. Calling a time out or throwing a pass right at an opponent is too blatent to be unnoticed. In basball, it would have to be win/lose, since there really is no point spread to beat: it's more odds. Football point shaving would be very hard since there are 22 players involved. Fixing the out come is a possibility. Don't forget, the idea is to fix the game WITHOUT arousing suspicion.
I have no idea what the Univ. of Northern Colorado situation was about, if it really occurred. Point spreads are designed to get people to bet evenly on both teams. A change that big, that late, would not allow enough time for bettors to even out the bets. Besides, bookies aren't stupid: "a quantem of money" being bet that late, would open a big can and get the game off the line.
The bet probably wouldn't have been accepted. Remember, the bookies don't care who wins, only that equal money is bet on both teams. The vig takes care of the rest. Point shaving has to be isolated to a small number of people to be effective.
In 2011 Toledo running back Quinton Broussard pleaded guilty in connection with the point scandal. Broussard admitted to receiving $500 for intentionally losing a fumble in the first half of the 2005 GMAC Bowl. Please click on
http://www.toledoblade.com/UT/2011/08/26/Ex-Rocket-admits-to-fumbling- for-500.html
If you think PROS would jeopardize their tens or HUNDREDS of millions of dollars careers (after all, no one is paying a bench player to shave points) to make a few thousand, you are insane. Nor would any college player who is expecting to get drafted.
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