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Why are so many people confused about who Flagg is?

posted 8 years ago by zigomanis18
18 replies | jump to latest

I have lots of Stephen King loving friends. and recently we had a discussion about his books, most especially this one. What is odd to me is that many of them are confused about who Flagg is. It's pretty obvious. Hes the Devil..or at least a demon from hell. The parallels with Christian concepts of the "Evil One" are blatantly obvious in this story from start to finish. Now, granted it's been about 20 years since I read the book, and since then I have seen the movie about 8 different times....to include last week. I forgot alot from the book, but as far as the movie is concerned. there is no doubt about who Flagg is supposed to be. King himself never wants to commit to this character being the "devil"..and I wonder why that is. When asked, he skirts around the subject, and yet the signs and dialogue in this movie make it pretty obvious.

For one, There are THREE times when the reference to him being Satan is stated by characters in a pretty clear manner. Well twice anyways with a third one confirming him as a being from hell. The first time is by FLAGG himself. When he meets Lloyd, one of the first thing he says is " Pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name". This is actually an old phrase which the Rolling Stones used in their song Sympathy for the Devil... Flagg is referencing himself as the Devil..
The next time is when the Three travelers are first caught by Flagg's men and the cop states that Flagg is the "Biggest and Baddest". Glen mentions that Flagg is "An apostate of Hell". The third time is when Flagg is about to pronounce sentence on the last 2 prisoners and Asked if they have any last words..Larry Says to him "Why don't you tell him your real name?"....Obviously he means Satan..I am sure he is not talking about Bozo the clown !

Also, there are so many times that Mother Abigail and STU reference Bible quotes throughout the movie. Another sign of this being the final battle between God and Satan.

Many people I know say the he is a a spinster, a trickster. under different names in other books. yes, I read them all. but that's ALSO the essence of Satan. he is supposed to be a liar, a deceiver who is immortal. Therefore, he can't really die...In the book he reincarnates on a tropical island. Makes sense. If he is an immortal Demon a nuclear bomb is only going to destroy his temporary physical body anyways...not his immortality.

Randall Flagg is Satan..No doubt about it.

[–] GirlwonderReturns 8 years ago

lol. He's not Satan. Mother Abagail calls him "the devil's imp", both in the series and in the book. That would be kind of a stupid thing to call him if he was Satan. And IIRC, in the book she explicitly says he's not Satan. Yes, it is implied that he is a demon of some sort, although it's never fully explained.

Of COURSE it's supposed to be the ultimate battle of good vs. evil, or god vs. the devil. That's not really a revelation. However, saying that that means that Flagg is Satan is illogical. Flagg heads up the "evil" side while Mother Abagail heads up the "good". By your logic, Mother Abagail must be god. Which we know isn't the case. Even if the story is a battle between god and the devil, that doesn't make Flagg the devil. He is, at most, an instrument of the devil, just as Mother Abagail is an instrument of god.

Sorry if I sound bitchy here, but it's reeeeally annoying when people speak with certainty about things they're not right about, especially when you imply that others are somehow dense for not coming to the conclusion you did.

The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.

[–] zigomanis18 8 years ago

Well, I can respect your thinking but I still disagree. OK, he is at LEAST a Higher Demon from hell. That is more or less obvious in the flick.

But why would be reference himself as the Devil to Lloyd? And what name do you think Larry meant? Really could only be either 'The Devil". "Satan" or "Lucifer".

As for Mother Abigail having to be a God that's not at all true. The entire concept of the final Battle of good and Evil as a Christian concept is normal humans fighting against the powers of Satan on earth. So no one on earth needs to be a "God" to fight him. That's why the stand was never going to be about an all out war as some suggested but rather the trust in God to fight the Evil one without weaponry with the main weapon that of "faith". The Biblical references throughout the flick back up the idea that this is a Christian type of Armageddon.

Flagg wanted his Baby, which could easily be construed as the "anti-Christ"...the son of the Devil.

I know in other books he was once a man...Making it confusing in the concept of all the books. But in this flick, it's obvious that he is much more than a man, as his connection with Hell and the Devil is mentioned numerous times. If he is not the Devil, he is at least a higher fallen angel...but I still say that he is the embodiment of evil..as King States...which is the definition of Satan.

[–] GirlwonderReturns 8 years ago

But why would be reference himself as the Devil to Lloyd? And what name do you think Larry meant? Really could only be either 'The Devil". "Satan" or "Lucifer".

My guess is they used the "Sympathy for the Devil" joke just because it was funny. There was nothing like that in the book. And as far as Ralph - it was Ralph who said "tell us your real name", not Larry; I rewatched the series recently - all he's saying is that "Randall Flagg" isn't his real name. Which it isn't; it's just something he calls himself. I don't know if Flagg even remembers his real name. Doesn't mean he's the devil.

As for Mother Abigail having to be a God that's not at all true. The entire concept of the final Battle of good and Evil as a Christian concept is normal humans fighting against the powers of Satan on earth. So no one on earth needs to be a "God" to fight him. That's why the stand was never going to be about an all out war as some suggested but rather the trust in God to fight the Evil one without weaponry with the main weapon that of "faith". The Biblical references throughout the flick back up the idea that this is a Christian type of Armageddon.

Dude, no. Flagg is not Satan. Again - Mother Abagail says in the book, outright, that he isn't. It's a battle between good and evil. Mother represents good, Flagg represents evil. Even some of Flagg's people aren't really "evil", just weak. Hell, I never even saw Lloyd as evil, necessarily, or Trash either. And see, if you're correct, this is why Christianity is idiotic. God is all-powerful, but nah, let's let plain old mortal humans fight "all the powers of Satan on earth" for the future of all that is good, because, well, he doesn't feel like it. He's literally the worst all-powerful, all loving being of all time. If god ain't fighting, it's not a battle between god and the devil even if Flagg IS the devil. Which he isn't.

Again, none of this even matters because Mother Abagail flat out says that he is not Satan.

The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.

[–] eipmatt 8 years ago

I think people that call Christianity idiotic are ignorant. It's okay. Christianity is complex. The Bible isn't an easy read and many tenets of Christianity are open to interpretation (that's why there are so many branches of Christianity). God didn't create us to be servants, like angels. Free will has its benefits (freedom) and costs (having to lie in the bed each of us has made). If God solved all of our problems, we wouldn't have true free will. The above poster was wrong about Flagg being Satan and you seem to be wrong about Christianity.

[–] zigomanis18 8 years ago

AS to the phrase the "Devils' Imp". That of course implies someone that is close to the Devil,and is a prankster or joker.

Keep in mind that as the Christina concept is a Holy Trinity, with three persons being as one..the same could be said of the Devil, Antichrist and False Prophet...all one in the same...forming an Unholy trinity. Therefore, he himself could have actually been one of those forms..or maybe even the antichrist himself.

But it's for sure he was not just a "Magician" or a Man with powers as many have told me. You don't build a whole story / Movie around the apocalypse around a man..no matter how eveil he thinks he is.

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[–] gary_overman 8 years ago

Randall Flagg is Satan..No doubt about it.

Really?

Then please explain this passage from the book. Nick has expressed doubt that Flagg is real. Mother Abagail is speaking to him after saying that Flagg is definitely real.

"He ain't Satan," she said, "but he and Satan know of each other and have kept their councils together of old."

It is in Chapter 45 after Nick, Ralph and her have stayed up to talk after dinner.

[–] GirlwonderReturns 8 years ago

"He ain't Satan," she said, "but he and Satan know of each other and have kept their councils together of old."

THIS is the line from the book I was trying to remember. Thank you. I'm rereading it right now for the first time in many years but I'm still early on.

The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.

[–] gary_overman 8 years ago

THIS is the line from the book I was trying to remember. Thank you. I'm rereading it right now for the first time in many years but I'm still early on.

It was my pleasure. BTW, I have read the novel many times. It is my favorite SK book and one of my all time favorites by any writer.

[–] GirlwonderReturns 8 years ago

It's one of my all-time favorites as well, and along with "IT", my favorite King novel. I have read it several times, but it's probably been close to ten years since my last go. So I remembered that there was a point at which Mother said Flagg wasn't the devil, just couldn't remember the specific line or setting. Although I should have, Nick was my favorite character and that chapter at Mother's house, especially Nick's interior dialogue with himself after she tells him that he's been chosen by god, is brilliant.

The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.

[–] zigomanis18 8 years ago

Ok,,There are conflicts I agree.. But what's funny is that no one here has commented on FLAGG'S statement to Lloyd..and Larry's questions to him near the end.

In the Book, Cullen refers to him as "Legion", which is not the Devil but rather a high level Demon..actually many Demons as one. But in researching. King DID reference Flagg as the Devil in an interview. When Asking about his joking character, King responded by saying this about FLAGG.."I think the DEVIL would be a funny guy".

So, there are proofs on both sides...perhaps simply oversites in writing. But he at LEAST a Demon of hell sent by Satan..That I can understand.

[–] gary_overman 8 years ago

Ok,,There are conflicts I agree.. But what's funny is that no one here has commented on FLAGG'S statement to Lloyd..and Larry's questions to him near the end.

In the Book, Cullen refers to him as "Legion", which is not the Devil but rather a high level Demon..actually many Demons as one. But in researching. King DID reference Flagg as the Devil in an interview. When Asking about his joking character, King responded by saying this about FLAGG.."I think the DEVIL would be a funny guy".

So, there are proofs on both sides...perhaps simply oversites in writing. But he at LEAST a Demon of hell sent by Satan..That I can understand.

Here, I agree 100%, as King is a very sloppy writer. Witness the longest thread on this board on goofs in the book. I dabble in writing myself and I (as well as King) am human and w make mistakes. But King seems to not do much editing, as a lot of the goofs would be caught if he did.

Here we agree. Flagg is not the devil himself, but a demonic creature of a very high level.

[–] GirlwonderReturns 8 years ago

Ok,,There are conflicts I agree.. But what's funny is that no one here has commented on FLAGG'S statement to Lloyd..and Larry's questions to him near the end.

I don't know if there's even a point in replying to you, since I did address both of those things above. That being the case I am not going to retype them, so go back and look.

King is a wonderful storyteller, but he can also be wildly inconsistent. This seemed to be especially true during his drinking and drugging days. "IT", for example, is one of my favorite King novels, but there are a million inconsistencies and contradictions in it, and there are a number in the Stand as well. He wasn't even consistent about characters' ages and appearances in the Stand (or in "IT", for that matter) - he describes Stu's eyes as brown at one point, blue at another; refers to him as 30 at one point, 35 at another. Nick says he's 22, but says he was born in November 1968; this happens in summer 1990, meaning he would actually have been 21. So no, consistency is not King's thing. But you continue to stubbornly defend yourself as "correct" when you are not, and it's getting a little irritating. Just admit that you're wrong, for Pete's sake. There is no unequivocal or irrefutable proof that Flagg is Satan; there is far more to the contrary, but yet you keep arguing. He's a demon, something I conceded in my first reply. Let it go.

The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.

[–] zigomanis18 8 years ago

Not trying to argue with you or anyone. Just pointing out lines and commentary that others never mention that are conflicting. in the end. it's just a book so anyone can interpret as they wish. but I guess the inconsistencies are a standard King thing.

[–] tiskec 7 years ago

I love MOST of Stephen King. The only book I really didn't like of his was the Talisman. I just read Mr. Mercedes. That was an awesome book who really puts you into the mind of a serial killer.

---I laugh as she cries. My soul brings tears to angelic eyes. Omnipotence, nurturing malevolence.

[–] phillypete 8 years ago

i always thought that he was the anti-christ. it is reasonable to assume that he is an evil creature, but does not appear to be powerful enough to be satan himself.

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