MovieChat Forums > Cadfael (1995) Discussion > Significance of rag-dolls and item being...

Significance of rag-dolls and item being swung around?

posted 17 years ago by skiddlehead
21 replies | jump to latest

Someone started to ask this question, but it never got answered.
Does anyone know the significance of the following two things when St. Winnifred is being exhumed?
The rag dolls on the wheel? I'm guessing maybe something to do with "scaring" evil spirits away from her resting place.
But this one has me baffled: What the heck is the guy swinging above his head that looks like and old TV antenna? Why is he doing that? It hurts my brain! Someone help me out, please! Thanks!

[–] pol-edra 17 years ago

Glad someone revived this old topic... But sorry I can't help, I'm still as puzzled as you are (can't really remember the TV antenna thing though, I'll have to check again.)
Hope we're more lucky this time!

I'm a Sidekick and proud of it.

[–] kevink45 17 years ago

It's been awhile since I watched my DVD of this but as I recall, somebody was swinging a censer. There would have been burning incense in there, and swinging it around spreads the scent.

[–] skiddlehead 17 years ago

I saw the censer. This was off to the side. There was a Welshman swinging a large old TV-antenna-looking-thing over his head. It's baffling. Thanks for responding, though. :)

[–] pol-edra 17 years ago

I just watched Monty Python and the Holy Grail again, and they also have one of those wheels on a pole with things hanging down. I'm more and more convinced I have also seen these things in paintings by either Brueghel or Bosch, although I still don't know what they are...
Little by little we will find out I suppose...

I'm a Sidekick and proud of it.

[–] galliard 17 years ago

I've seen woodcuts that looked like that, but people were on the wheels (as if strapped or tied down). Apparently, this is what was termed "breaking on the wheel". It involved using a hammer to break the arms and legs of the restrained victim. Not sure if that has any relevance to this show, though.

[–] pol-edra 17 years ago

Thanks for posting! Not many people on this board...
You may have a point: the wheel and the rag-dolls could be meant to represent the torture of the wheel. Something to scare evil spirits away? I don't know, I'm still puzzled... HEEEEEEEELP!!!

I'm a Sidekick and proud of it.

[–] MystRose 17 years ago

The "old TV antennae" is a whicker, used to chase away insects. They were exhuming a body, after all.

[–] NY Whovian 16 years ago

I believe the noise-maker is called a bull-roarer, probably because of the deep sound it makes. Noise has long been a trantional way of scaring away evil spirits.

I don't know about the wheel with the dolls, but I don't think the Catherine wheel (torture instrument) is implied. However, since the books and series take place in a time when Christianity in just superceding more superstitious religious beliefs in some areas, a lot of old pagan practices were tolerated in the more rural areas in order to ease the transition to Christianity.

[–] pol-edra 15 years ago

Hopeless bump...

I'm a Sidekick and proud of it.

[–] Devans00 13 years ago

I'm with pol-edra and skiddlehead. I still want to know what they rag dolls on the spinning will were. It would be nice if only people who have a serious answer would respond.

I looked up bull-roarer and whicker. Neither of them were the device spun above the head of the village men during the exhumation of Saint Winefride. I think the device looks more like a clothes dryer more than an "old TV antennae" but either works.

I made some screen shots of the items to help people figure out what we are talking about. You can clearly see the censer is a whole separate thing.

http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h276/devans00/Misc_2011/Cadfael_Morb id_Taste_for_Bones/?albumview=slideshow

http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h276/devans00/Misc_2011/Cadfael_Morb id_Taste_for_Bones/

No two persons ever watch the same movie.

[–] pol-edra 13 years ago

Awesome! I had completely given up hope on this thread. Thanks a lot for the screenshots, it might bring us some new ideas.

"Sometimes I'm callous and strange."

[–] Devans00 13 years ago

Yes, pol-edra

Part of the fun of watching period piece movies or TV shows is to learn about the culture represented on screen. It's only a negative when you can't find answers or explanations of questions that pop up.

No two persons ever watch the same movie.

[–] pol-edra 13 years ago

It is quite frustrating, because it raises two questions: if the item is historical, what is it? and if it is not, what purpose, artistically speaking, was it supposed to serve?
Anyway, on a sidenote, this only serves to justify my keeping Cadfael among my "favorite" boards, even if hardly anything happens on it these days...

"Sometimes I'm callous and strange."

[–] pol-edra 13 years ago

up!

"Occasionnally I'm callous and strange."

[–] Ten-Inch-Toni 10 years ago

A Christmas 'bump'.

[–] Ten-Inch-Toni 10 years ago

I just finished watching 'A Morbid Taste For Bones' for probably the 10th time and I now think I have an idea what the thing that looks like a large rasp orI think someone called it a TV antenna looking thing.

I think it's to help move the incense through the air. After they unearth the Saint they all stop waving the incense, the rasp, and the 'wagon wheel of ghosts'. I still have absolutely no clue what purpose the 'ghosts' could mean. What do you think?

[–] pol-edra 10 years ago

I'd have to rewatch but in the end, I decided these things, whether historical or not, were part Christian, part traditional; part symbolic, part practical. I can only suppose they are meant to clear the air both of "evil spirits" and of the noxious miasma one might expect when unearthing a rotting corpse.

"Occasionally I'm callous and strange."

[–] Ten-Inch-Toni 10 years ago

I would agree with your supposition except in this case, I should think there wouldn't be a rotting corpse smell.

[–] pol-edra 10 years ago

True of course! The saint had been dead and buried, for what? Centuries? But you know, "just in case", I suppose...

"Occasionally I'm callous and strange."

[–] kzavarin-223-158152 8 years ago

I suspect the "antenna" is a primitive type of ripidion or liturgical fan - originally used to shoo flies from the chalice, and still used, albeit symbolically, during most Orthodox church services.

[–] pol-edra 8 years ago

Thanks for the lead!

"Occasionally I'm callous and strange."