WHY? - Traces of Death Discussion

[–] impaler69 20 years ago

I think the autopsy sequences were pretty interesting. Now if you want real sadism, see if you can get a snuff film. That is sadism.

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[–] Avant-garde_Addict 20 years ago

People watch "films" like Traces of Death because death is a morbid fascination of many people, which is something the filmmakers fully exploit to make money. Its like a car accident on the highway: You don't want to look, but for some reason you just have to, as if there is some sick hunger to feed. I used to watch shockumentaries like this when I was an angry, depressed teenager. Years later, I realized this kind of stuff is really unhealthy for people. These films also have absolutely no merit. The only purpose is to disgust the audience, nothing more. Some people actually believe Traces/Faces of Death is intended to "analyze and examine the nature of death," as if it has some kind of (chuckle) educational or philosophical value. They are called "exploitation" films for a reason, people. Guess who's being exploited? Yep, you and I, the audience.

These "filmmakers" make money by feeding off of peoples' darkest obessions. From a business standpoint, its genious. But from an ethical standpoint, its morally wrong.

This should answer your question.

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[–] jagergrl2004 19 years ago

I totally agree with you.

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[–] Cowman 19 years ago

I'm not disagreeing with you about the merits of these films. It's obvious that their sole purpose is to shock and disgust their audience. But do you really think that they're unhealthy?

I collect these kinds of films because I find them to be fascinating, but I consider myself to be a friendly, non-violent, easy-going kind of guy. And I don't really understand your statement about these films exploiting the viewers. The viewers know exactly what they are going to get when they watch these videos. If anything I'd say the only people being exploited are the poor souls who were unlucky enough to wind up on these videos!

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[–] yodro 19 years ago

I in a way agree with you. i still think its a disgusting sort of movie. but what do you think of the darwin awards? woulds you say those are completely immoral?

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] Frankneck 19 years ago

I'm the same way Avant-garde Addict, I watched these things all the time about ten years ago when I was in high school, I found the stuff fascinating and it didn't bother me at all. Now I can't bear to watch this stuff, it just disturbs me too much. I definitely don't understand why people give others a hard time for watching this stuff though, it's a natural thing to be curious about death at some time or another.

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[–] eh-earle 13 years ago

Are you freaking kidding? this movie is the personification of "snuff film" probably one of the only snuff films to make it publicly...(because of depraved sicko's like you, i might add).

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[–] eh-earle 13 years ago

Are you freaking kidding? this movie is the personification of "snuff film" probably one of the only snuff films to make it publicly...(because of depraved sicko's like you, i might add). ps if you want an interesting medical/anatomical piece, go to *beep* med school. These are real people and they don't deserve to have their lives and deaths desanctified by your gawping ass! The fact that this movie even exists makes me so angry...my only consolation is that "brain damage" & co. are going straight to hell.
And I'm not even religious.

Ps, "The Darwin Awards" are totally...well, not *totally*, but somewhat different in that all those people are completely anonymous. Their families don't have to put up with the shame/horror of knowing that their kin are being exploited for money. The same can definately NOT be said about these poor sods.

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[–] darrenw25 19 years ago

why not? just cause you dont like it other people do. i dont like or dis like this but films are made for every1 not just u

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[–] femmefatale3000 19 years ago

Humans since the dawn of time have had a facination with death. Even back in the days of the Roman Collusium someone (I cant remember whom) wrote about not wanting to watch the blood sports, but he couldnt take his eyes off it and even found himself cheering with all the other spectators. Watching films like Traces of Death in my opinion is somewhat of a reminder to us about our own mortality.

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] Michaelelsam 19 years ago

Awww boy. I kind of find it hard to understand how a person can sit down and watch and enjoy anything where their fellow human beings are suffering so horribly. I can watch the most harcore of (fake) violent films, Takashi Miike being a personal favourite director of mine, but the idea of this stuff just makes me feel quite ill. I understand the morbid fascination in death most of us at least in some small degree possess, but to actually put effort into tracking down and buying material featuring people and animals losing their lives in various violent ways seems...well....a little bit messed up y'know? I mean, it's only really a step down from snuff movies. I haven't personally seen the film, and I intend not to, but anything that features real life death as entertainment is, I believe, just plain morally wrong. Those kinds of people, I kind of feel sorry for them. How much unhappiness and hate must a person be harbouring to get off on this *beep*

There's quite a large gap between peeking at a car crash sight on the road, and buying images and film footage of something like a person committing suicide. If anything, think of the people who went through that stuff, the families who lost their loved ones. It's a shame there's even a market for this stuff.

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[–] bindiboi 19 years ago

I try to see as much of this stuff as I can, why you ask? You ever heard of the phrase, "You don't know what you've got till it's gone."? Same basic principal. In order to REALLY know you have it good is to see the bad and horrible things in the world. You think CNN news tells you or shows you everything? I appreciate my life and my friends and family. I see the nasy and horrible things out there.

I do however understand that some people just can't handle these things, and there is nothing wrong with that either.

There are those who actually get off on this stuff, and others like myself feel a certain education is begotten from it.

As long as we don't cause the horrible images, no harm.

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[–] loda7 19 years ago

"Getting off" on this isn't what I'm sure most people are doing watching these. It's more curiosity than anything. You live your life wondering what would happen if you got hit by a car or fell off a building. All you can do is wonder 'cause you'll never know otherwise. In your dreams, you bounce or simply walk away. Would you live, break a few bones, what? Well, these films will show you what would happen. I'm not promoting these films in any way. I'm more disturbed now than I used to be watching these, but I understand the curiosity part of it, and as far as the type of "bad choice" deaths (crazy driving, jumping off a roof scenarios), I think it's better to have a sense of reality vs. feeling invincible. That is, if you intend to live longer.

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[–] Movie_Fanatic18 18 years ago

I too have scene faces & i used to own traces, but was lost on my hard drive somewhere, i watched most of these vids when (like ALOT of others before me in my High school years)
BUT ppl say this is entertainment? think about it for a second.. the WORD entertainment.. meaning to ENTERTAIN!
en·ter·tain·ment NOUN
Something that amuses, pleases, or diverts, especially a performance or show.

It does NOT AMUSE its either informs or FASINATES NOT ENTERTAINS!
i used to watch all the stuff on snufix and ogrish and used to be FULLY into to HARDCORE slasher flicks any horror film, and always saughting out the most BRURALLY violent films i could find. Why?
Hey i was a teen, all the way through my early to late teens i was fasinated by death EVEN at a VERY young age i would be CONSTANTLY thinking about my own demise, which is why i was a christian for as little time as i was.. for fear of going to Hell. I am now an athist and not so obsessed with death.. why? because (bear in my this is MY oponion and i have a right to voice it, i think its fantatic that everyone can have thyre own religion and or POV's in america, australia and various other countrys.
But why did i tone it down? because in my belifs.. well non-belifs if u wanna get technical; is that when you die, you die, you cease to exist.. you only get 1 shot and thats it!

Now ppl were talking about car crashes i myself have been in 1 when i was driving, and i PERSONALY know what its like, well not do die but to be VERY close to it! Infact i welcomed it.. when i verred off the road to no fault of my own jsut the conditions i no longer could control my vehicle and in fear of hurting the other motorist on my right i did not turn my wheel to the right from 1. fear of hitting them or someone else or thyre property & 2. to stop my car from rolling over and having a pretty gresome demise.
So i let go of the wheel which wa my defualt reaction thankfully i was not SEVERLY injured i mean it could have gone ALOT LOT worse!
But im just saying DONT ppl who even havnt seen this call it blah blah blah how can you wach this.. its sick.. its twisted..
well.. i say: IS IT LONELY UP THERE ON YOUR SOAPBOX you self ritious humans!
(i say humans because i dont really want to insult you just trying to give you BOTH sides of the argument!)
& yes the 2 last things are that ppl DO including me liek to see what they missed or how GOOD they do infact have it!
& ppl also like me think hmm how will i go.. maybe something like that..

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[–] wholovestroma 18 years ago

Back in the Roman times, most of the entertainment was watching folks fight lions, and getting killed.

Yes, I am relating videos of this sort to the Roman times, however, I do edit videos just like TOD, and I just completed a 28 minute film simliar to Faces of Death. So I am defintly not bashing this series or this genre.

People are curious, people are sick, people are bored, whatever, this series is not for everyone, but what is anymore...?

If you dont like something, dont watch it. Dont judge one by which he/she views for a reason you do not know of.

keep it gory, wankers.

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[–] g_forst26 18 years ago

TOD does some good, minute good, but it does satisfy to a certain extent. When some is bored they watch it, get sick, and they are no longer bored. it satisfied they're bordom. When people get curious, they watch it, get sick, and are no longer curious. It satisfied they're curiousity. When people want to be educated, they watch it, get sick, realize they made a gross misjudgement of eduactional films, and go on uneducated, but they know now what is uneducational.

The bad that these types of films surface far outwiegh the minute good. TOD belittles the poor soul on the film, by making quip remarks, exploiting peoples loved ones, TOD actually makes 90% of the population sad at the fact that there is actually a market for films like this. i honestly think that some crimes are committed for the soul purpose that someday they might be on a "shockumentary" which creates more sadness in the human race.

It is my belief that ignorance is bliss. How many children with down syndrome, or mental retardation do you see unhappy? NONE, becasue they are not exposed to vile acts against humans, and they don't even know they exist. Better question how many children do you see that are unhappy? NONE that aren't exposed to this garbage to a certain degree, meaning real life situations portrayted in films of this genre, ie abuse, suicide, murder, etc. TOD exposes light on actual happening that should be kept in the dark, in order to preserve a certain degree of happiness.

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[–] damntheirlies 18 years ago

I completely agree (not about that 'ignorance is bliss' thing). I can enjoy a shocking movie as long as it's fake, simply for the reasons people have been edging on here - the curiosity over the very censored ideas of death, and of course the primordial enjoyment of sadism that used to have a natural purpose, I'm sure.

But to show someone truly suffer - with all our abilities to generalise and thus empathise - how can this be justifiable? Especially when the aim in these films is not to enlighten and invoke pity and disgust (as in say Michael Moore's depictions in 'Dude, where's my country'), but simply to satisfy some primitive frenzy it inspires. To know that whoever it is you're watching in these films is actually suffering the ordeal of having their face cut off as in one of the cannibal films, or being roasted to death with a flame thrower, as somebody mentioned on here does nothing but display the fragility of progress in humanity. Since we are the only species who recognises the suffering in species other than ourselves, it is a despicable leap to enjoy indulging in it.

Like I said, if all this were faked then I would not see issue here. This is true simply because, aside from the possibility that it may serve as inspiration for the sick minded, the faked scenes would do nothing more than satisfy the sadistic fascination of certain people - but when the scenes are real, and the cost of that satisfaction is someones intense suffering, as well as the suffering of those that care for them, as well as the entire surrendering of any remaining human compassion - such things are ethically unjustifiable.

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[–] delt_ 18 years ago

I've only seen parts of this, but here goes.. What bothers me most is the way it's presented, especially the shnazzy, mocking narration - like they expect you to be amused from watching actual suffering, torture, death of other people and animals. Of course different people will have different reactions towards this kind of stuff. Personally i enjoy horror films and violent video games, because i view the depiction of realistic violence & gore as an art. But here we're not watching fake blood and special effects.

I agree 100% with the person who mentioned that watching this should be a reminder to us about how hideous our own species can be. I also agree with the fact that after seeing this hideousness, you appreciate a lot more what you have. So in my opinion, these "shockumentaries" do have some educational value, or at least "eye-opening" value, even if they weren't meant so.

"Ignorance is bliss" maybe, but it's also weakness, vulnerability, and it especially tends to inhibit wisdom. These children who are happy because they've never been exposed to the crude reality of the world, some day they'll have to grow up. You have to be aware. "Un homme averti en vaut deux." - "A warned man is worth two."

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[–] aluongy2k 18 years ago

I've been watchin violent gorefest flicks ever since I was in high school, and I thought since I was able to watch those things I could take this real life stuff. So, unfortunately, I got my hands on TOD. From watching gore flicks most of my life without turning away or anything, this is the ONLY thing I can not handle! I mean I see almost similiar things in movies (of course fake but realistic), but this was too over the top. I guess it's more of a psychological thing knowing that it's real, makes you want to vomit or have nightmares.

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[–] cheesepowder 18 years ago

Horror movies are different because they are fake, but This is all real! I don't think I could stomach watching a real human being killed. I could stand fake violence though.

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[–] Naturezrevenge 17 years ago

Death for film is NEVER acceptable.
NO living thing should die for "entertainment" of any sort.
PERIOD.

myspace.com/lexfulgore2

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[–] karottychoppa 17 years ago

this movie is the kind of s hit that eric harris and dylan kelbold (columbine guys) would have watched and though
"wow killing stuff looks fun.... i like how the blood goes everywhere'

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] andell-2 17 years ago

well i dont think anyone was murdered for this movie.
this is only a compilation of archive material.... in other words it is not a snuff movie.

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[–] morbidasperge 17 years ago

"Death for film is NEVER acceptable. "

of course not. here we have a compilation (from all different media sources and amateur video) of fatal moments caught on tape. Unless there is a home video taped suicide (I do not remember well, I watched this in 94) no death scene was on the agenda when they rolled the cameras out.

The images can be gruesome and disgusting, I can not argue. But I agree with everyone that said they can have an educational value.

I have been in a car accident once and it had the same educational value, when you can witness how life is fragile, you tend to be more cautious of your own and respectful of the one of others.

But yet, I can understand why people are grossed and why others enjoy it and then some are curious or fascinated. Death is something none of us (if you can read this anyway) have personally experienced and has probably fascinated people for the past 100 000 years.

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[–] Naturezrevenge 17 years ago

Well said.
Documenting death is one thing though,
and filming an unnecessary death (i.e killing an animal for the purpose of morbid fascination) is another.
I remain fascinated with death and gore,
but when I see something that's clearly set up and sensationalized,
I want to vomit with rage.

myspace.com/lexfulgore2

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[–] andell-2 17 years ago

To be openminded is the key to knowlege, to be able to not judge a movie just becuase i cant handle it myself is acording to me important.
If i personaly dont like it i just dont, but atleast i gave it a fair chance and i shouldnt look down on the people who do like them.

I have the Faces of death dvd, some parts of the traces of death dvd and many random clips and photos on the internet as my expirience of the genre.
i have never paid to see this material as i downloaded Faces and Traces and the other media i have just found on the internet on various sites.
Otherwise i buy my movies but not these as i am still not sure that i like them at all.

Faces is to me by far the superior movie in this genre so far.
I have watched Faces of death the original, a few times now, and actually found it interesting and educational.
But some of the authentic parts in the movie realy was unsetling and hard to see.

Fake deaths are nothing that bothers me as i watch alot of horror movies and i am also a collector of eurohorror, goreflicks and various hardcore genre movies.

The knowlege that most of the stuff in Faces of death is fake is probably what made me handle the content and making me see the value of the movie.
or at least what i found to be the value, i found faces trying to be to some extent educational even thou it is meant to shock.
Still at parts it was pathetic and it was easy to see what parts that was made only to shock, but most of the movie was an okey documentary about death.
it was shocking and educational att the same time, and therefore it was what i was looking for, and satisfying in one way.

Traces on the other hand is what i have understod a compilation of 100% real photage, and it is important to say that i havent seen the whole movie.
But i feel that this movie is extreemly low on educational value, even if it most defenitivley have some.
But in this movie the aim is most defenitivley on shocking, sicken and scare people by showing the most gruesome and vile material they could find.

i personaly believe that most people that watch this heavier titles in the genre is watching them in curiosity or as a test in witch you see how heavy movies you can handle in the horror genre.
Yes i called this a horror movie, becuase thats exactly what it is, but maybe still it isnt becuase it is a documentary to.
I say, when it is of no educational value the only thing left is just a horror movie trying to shock and scare by using the most extreme and unsettling thing of all, our own mortality and the real reality.
Ofcourse i believe there are people enjoying these movies as entertainment but i still think they are a very smal minority of all the people watching these type of movies.

I personaly whatched parts of this movie becuase of curiosity and probably becuase i wondered how far i could go.
to be honest i dont think i can handle these movies becuase i get kind of sick and have a hard time pushing thru most of the scenes.
Still i find myself facinated not as much by the content but of the genre itself.
To be honest i find some strange pleasure in the the shock and adrenaline that scary, brutal and truly unsettling movies make me feel, but this type of films is a little to heavy for me, and maybe that is why they facinate me.
My facination for the genre is mainly the reason why i am here writing this and reading what others have to say about it.

The moral part in this debate is extremly hard to pick a side on.
I personaly believe that it is wrong to exploit victims of this situations to earn money, and the movies where the narator make fun of the victims and/or jokes about their death or injuries are acording to me stupid and silly, they should defenitivley show some respect to the dead.
Movies i have heard about thats doing this is Faces of gore, and thats why i dont want to even look at that movieseries.
ofcourse Faces of gore isnt the only movies that does this.
But if the material is edited in an tastefull way and information about the situations told so that people get to know what hapened and maybe why it happened it gets some value of education and the movie dosnt only turn into a source of authentic gore and inapropriet downgrading jokes.
when handled like this i cant see why people complain at all, exept for the family or people who knew the victims who are becuase of these movies placed in a really hard situation and this is where the real moral issue starts unless they sign a paper about it or something, but still they might as well show this on TV these days so it is very hard to draw the line.
I am personaly also against all form of censorship (maybe not on tv but on vhs,dvd and sutch) becuase it is wrong for another person to tell the other what they cant see when that person is a grown adult.
And also these movies are not snuff movies, the victims wasnt killed to be in these movies and therefore the material already exist anyway, and really should they just burn it?
What they do is only to collect these videos from different sources and edit them into a documentary/horror movie/shockumentary/mockumentary/mondo movie or what ever you would call it but it is not a snuff movie.
Snuff movies are a whole other thing, i agree this is as close as you get but it is actualy a quite big leap between those genres.
The moral part is as i said very hard to take a side on.

well thats what i have to say about all this.
Watch what you want people and dont lookdown on the people that like to see what you dont like to see.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] dudi-warsito 16 years ago

I think these types of movies are OK to watch. I have no problem watching these movies. Its nice to see something different. I liked TOD 1 but the rest was not so good. For some reason I didn't like faces of gore and faces of death.

What really bugs me are the people (not everyone) who really loves these movies.
Many of them listen to death-metal music and their attitude is like "Oh we are so f-cking tough/hardcore/cool because we watch these types of movies. Friday the 13th movies are for pussies"

I really hate this type of attitude. They think they are cool because they watch something that the general person would not watch.

Also, the narrator in the movie is so pathetic. Is he trying to be scary or what?
The whole fake scary atmosphere in the movies makes me laugh.

But still, i enjoy watching these movies because they are different than regular movies. But I dont think im cool because i watch these movies.

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[–] cyborg264 16 years ago

The "educational" aspect of this type of cinema is purely in the essence of learning any and all things that could or can take you out of this life. To learn what can happen so you can try and avoid becoming that what you are watching. Ogrish.com had tons of death to be seen until they took it down. Watching it you realize how glad you are to be on this side of the screen and if you ever WERE to be on the other side, how would you be different, if at all? Not all, but some of the fascination is explained there-in. The "How can I end up better than that person? How can I not lose my life if found in a similar situation?" is the "educational" factor found here others spoke about above.

It boils down to control. People have varying degrees of a need for control, but in the end noone is able to control their future to such a finite degree to actually avoid any and all fatal accidents or attacks that could possibly ever happen. Thus we have cinema of such incidents. Viola.

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[–] damien_74 16 years ago

I agree fully. Good post.

And I just have to say that the narrating is pityfull. Why on earth would you talk with a voice like that? Trying to scare people? Well you failed miserably to scare me atleast. It just repulsed me with the lack of respect for the dead.

The fact that these movies exist is not a problem for me at all. No matter if it was intended to be educational or not, for me it was educational. And at least I got a new perspective on death and the human body.
Actually seing inside a human body makes me wonderous about how complex and cool life really is. We and animals are fantastic machines built by the nature. It is to say the least extra ordinary.

Thank you for the film, but please fire the narrator and whoever decided what and how he would speak in this film.

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[–] fweakonaleash 16 years ago

I have not seen this film, but I understand why people would watch it. For me, I'm curious about it. I'd download videos of people dying, feel like I was scarred for life, delete them, but then find more, only to get more grossed and freaked out. I'm also a happy 16 year old girl.

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[–] hubert18 16 years ago

I once did a project on films that have been refused a certificate in Britain and are therefore "banned". One of the films I saw was this one.

My own view is that films like this are criminally obscene and their sale or supply should be against the law.

There is no "right" to see footage of other people being killed, assaulted, mutilated, etc. It's a gross invasion of privacy, and it should be outlawed UNLESS there is a good reason to make an exception. For example, certain photographs may have a place in a medical textbook, a surgery instruction manual, etc. Or it may be legitimate to show some NON-GRAPHIC footage on television as part of a serious journalistic investigation. Even in such cases, the consent of the relatives should be sought, if at all possible. Any "borderline" cases, where acceptability is in doubt, should be decided in court by a jury.

If you regurarly seek out and watch this type of material, you KNOW that what you are doing is wrong. Wrong not as in "inappropriate"; wrong as in "immoral". You can try to rationalise what you are doing and justify it to other people or even to yourself. It won't work. Deep down, you KNOW you've done something immoral. Eventually, your conscience will catch up with you.

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] Illyngophobia 13 years ago

Then why are you on here whining about it?

"I'll go,because I am Cinema!" - Ben (Man Bites Dog)

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[–] cokoholicar 12 years ago

I think people watch this after a breakup to make themselves feel better.

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