MovieChat Forums > Tombstone (1993) Discussion > Which One Do.............

Which One Do.............

posted 7 years ago by Corky666
22 replies | jump to latest

What do people prefer, this or Wyatt Earp starring Kevin Costner, released the following year?
Both take a look at the life of Wyatt Earp but this (Tombstone) choses to focus basically at the infamous shoot-out at the OK Coral and the consequences that lead up to and following it. Whilst the Costner/Kasdan epic was more a feature-biopic of the legendary lawman and his whole life in general.

My choice would be "Wyatt Earp" and by a very large margin. I liked Dennis Quaid in the Costner film as Doc Holliday, and Val Kilmer was far worse,...Quaid was fantastic as Doc, far far better in the persona of an eccentric and dying killer. Costner was really good as Earp, but Russell was less compelling, plus the action shoot-outs of "Wyatt Earp"are better in my opinion.

The biggest let-down for 'Tombstone' for me is the direction by George Pan Cosmatos. It's not a patch on the direction of 'Wyatt Earp' by the superior Lawrence Kasdan.
I don't want to speak ill of the dead, but I never felt Cosmatos was a great director.

What do other people think?

[–] bobbiekaye69 7 years ago

You know Kurt Russell actually directed Tombstone, don't you? He let Cosmatos take credit, but Russell did the work.

Here's why I like Tombstone better.

The cowboys were well-defined. You knew who Curly Bill, Johnny Ringo, the Clantons and Mclaurys were. In Wyatt Earp, they all sort of blended together.

The shootout between Wyatt and Curly Bill was much better in Tombstone. In WE, they were winding up some canyon, and all the bad guys were there, including Johnny Ringo. That scene was so wrong in WE.

But while the actual Gunfight on Fremont Street was good in both movies, I think TS did it better.

On the other hand, as great as Sam Elliot was as Virgil, he was way too old for the character. And Dana Delaney wasn't right for Josie. Joanna Going from WE was much better. Josie wasn't a glamorous, if spoiled, woman. She was a frightened girl, far from home, who may have done a little acting, although even that is in dispute. It's more likely she spent some time working as a prostitute.

As you said, WE was more of a biopic. TS was a movie. It exaggerated a lot of the scenes, such as the Vendetta Ride, where in real life, Wyatt killed 4 people, not 27 like in the movie. But this is what movies do. Real life tends to be boring.

Also TS was wrong in suggesting that the Earps wanted to retire from "lawing." Virgil was a Deputy U.S. Marshall when they arrived, Wyatt served as Deputy Sheriff of Pima County before Cochise County was created, and he wanted to be Sheriff of Cochise County. They were all involved in law enforcement, at least part of the time, from the time they arrived in Tombstone.

Another thing, I think ignoring James and Warren was wrong. James was very much a part of the brothers' lives, and Warren rode with Wyatt on the Vendetta Ride.

Finally, I think Val Kilmer was perfect as Doc Holliday. While in Tombstone, Doc's health was as good as it had been in a decade. He was very much a Southern gentleman, as portrayed by Kilmer. Quaid's Holliday might have been a better Doc during his declining years in Colorado, with the raspy voice.

But in any case, I respect the opinion of anybody who liked WE better. I just disagree.

I intend to live forever.
So far, so good.

[–] Corky666 7 years ago

I'm so excited you answered my post bobbiekay. The rest of them are just IDIOTS

Your first point is one of the main reasons why I didn't like TS, they painted the Cowboys way to colorful where they just became caricatures as the movie wore on. I felt like I was watching the bad guys from Robocop.

I hated that face off between Wyatt and Curley Bill, so over the top. But I'll agree WE underscored the scene but in truth WE was closer to the truth in that scene and Wyatt really took them on himself because Doc, Turkey Creek and Texas Jack ran for their lives.

Agree that Dana was all wrong and Joanna Going was such a piece of AZZ and just felt right.

I despised so much that James wasn't even mentioned in TS. What the hell were they thinking?

As far as Kilmer as Doc, I felt I was watching a stand up comedy routine with a laugh track. Quaid nailed the role. Enough said.

With all that being said, I don't care if you liked TS because you're so damn HOT and just glad I'm part of your life here. You can do no wrong bobbiekay but love your passion for this genre

[–] bobbiekaye69 7 years ago

Corky, I disagree with you regarding the cowboys being too colorful in TS. Each of these was a man, with a life.

Tom McLaury was a peace-loving guy who wanted to be a farmer and a rancher, but he got pulled into a difficult situation by his trouble-making brother. Frank McLaury was a bully, who wanted to overcome his physical shortness by proving himself a tough guy. He was also a criminal, purchasing stolen cattle from the rustlers.

Ike Clanton was a drunken loudmouth and a coward, who was willing to double cross his fellow rustlers for a couple of thousand bucks. Billy Clanton was just a kid, but he was a horse thief and a rustler.

Curly Bill Brocius was a gregarious fellow, a cattle rustler with a sadistic streak in him. He was always willing to buy others a drink with his stolen money.

Johnny Ringo was a borderline psychotic, manic depressive, and while he worked with the rustlers, he wasn't part of any gang.

There were other cowboys featured, if you know to look for them, such as Billy Claiborne and Johnny Barnes.

A lot of other cowboys were featured in the original script, but didn't make it into the film. Among these were Old Man Clanton, Pony Diehl, Billy Grounds, Zwing Hunt, West Fuller, and others.

I think bringing these cowboys to life so vividly helped make this a better film. I also wish they'd included Bat Masterson, Buckskin Frank Leslie, Luke Short, and of course James Earp and Warren Earp.

Tombstone should've been about a four hour film. That would've made it even greater!

I intend to live forever.
So far, so good.

[–] Bilwick1 7 years ago

The Ike Clanton, Curly Bill, McLaurys and Ringo in WE were awful. Especially Curly Bill.

[–] Corky666 7 years ago

What do you know you DOLT. Go back to watching your Michael Bay movies

[–] bobbiekaye69 7 years ago

Corky, how about responding to my second point?

And you never answered my billiards question, way down the board now.

I intend to live forever.
So far, so good.

[–] Corky666 7 years ago

I agree with your second point about what kind of people they were but the film made them too colorful for my liking.

Do you lyke Jaws bobbiekay?

[–] Corky666 7 years ago

What is the billiards question GORGEOUS

[–] bobbiekaye69 7 years ago

Right here:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108358/board/thread/262825868

I intend to live forever.
So far, so good.

[–] Corky666 7 years ago

That link just takes me to a bunch of IMDB forums

[–] bobbiekaye69 7 years ago

Okay, just scroll down to the question titled Billiards.

I intend to live forever.
So far, so good.

[–] Corky666 7 years ago

Waaaaaah, I can't find it I'm so confused

[–] bobbiekaye69 7 years ago

Okay Corky, here's my original question:

In the Goofs section, someone said that "pocket billiards as we know it today (using striped, numbered object balls) would not have been played in the American West of the 1870s, having only been developed in the early decades of the twentieth century; the immediate forerunner of pocket billiards (using solid-colored, unnumbered balls) wasn't invented until around 1900."

Okay, what sort of billiards game would Morgan have been playing with Bob Hatch when he was assassinated? What pool games did they play in the Old West in the 1880s?

Serious question, I'm curious.

I intend to live forever.
So far, so good.

[–] Corky666 7 years ago

I don't know.....8ball???

[–] Bilwick1 7 years ago

Huh???

[–] Bilwick1 7 years ago

I meant "Huh???" in response to Corky telling someone (me?) to watch Michael Bay movies.

[–] bobbiekaye69 7 years ago

I don't even know who Michael Bay is. Do you?

I intend to live forever.
So far, so good.

[–] Bilwick1 7 years ago

I think he directs action movies; in any case, I don't recall ever seeing one. I suppose Corky thought he was making some very cutting jibe. If so, the point was lost on me.

[–] A_Real_Hip_Dude 7 years ago

Corky is one of the loudest and most unintelligent people on IMDB; especially when it comes to all things Wyatt Earp. I'd suggest ignoring anything he says, it pretty much all involves others being "idiots". He used to stay on the Wyatt Earp board but now he's followed his crush over here and he will no doubt pollute these boards with his pointless comments.

"I am on intimate terms with the desert..."

Anyone know the reference?

[–] Corky666 7 years ago

Looks like I found a new home troll, now everyone can hate you for bringing me here

[–] cathaven97 7 years ago

Corky is one of the loudest and most unintelligent people on IMDB

This is why the only IMDB board I visit is this one. It used to be relatively troll-free. The thought of what could be a grown man trolling message boards (a grown man sitting at a computer with a collection of Star Wars action figures on shelves behind him) is just too disturbing and depressing to contemplate.

Try the "Ignore" button. It works very well to spare you the inanities of the developmentally-challenged.

[–] Corky666 7 years ago

Put it back in your pants dipchit