Why was getting the eagle so bad ? - Sharpe's Eagle (1993) Discussion

[–] lordduzi 18 years ago

Getting the eagle was the equivalent of a suicide mission.

reply

As lordduzi says - getting the eagle was the equivalent of a suicide mission. In reality it wasn't until a later battle (I think the Battle of Barossa in 1810 or 1811) that an eagle was actually captured by British soldiers - and then from an Irish Regiment. They were incredibly hard to capture because they were a symbol of the success and strength of the regiment that owned them, and a regiment did all it could to protect them.

reply

[–] voyager78906 18 years ago

If you look at the book Sharpes Waterloo it has a line that says a whole regiment died but kept the colours.

reply

[–] keeleboy 17 years ago

Napoleon himself blessed every Eagle carried in the French army (or so I believe) and the French army loved him. There was no flogging, the vast majority of the troops were all too willing volunteers and Napoleon was a hero to the common man. Losing one of his Eagles would have been a catostrophic disaster so they fought tooth and nail to keep hold of them, as the British did with their flags that were blessed by the hand of the King (hence why such anger at Simmerson). To capture a flag was incredibly difficult, hence the honour, and many men died trying.

At Waterloo, a Sergeant Ewing of the Scots cavalry regiment suceeded in capturing an Eagle and was promoted as soon as he returned to the British lines.

reply

[–] c-huddleston 17 years ago

"the vast majority of the troops were all too willing volunteers"

Sorry, but my understanding is that Napoleon introduced conscription and that the vast majority of his army was made up of conscripts. Hence the reliance on a column attack formation - everyone in the column feels protected rather than exposed, although the truth is that they are more vulnerable because they cannot bring their weapons to bear.

reply

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Pharaoh-in-de-Nile 15 years ago

They were the 'Scots Greys' to be exact. Though it was Sergeant Ewart, (not Ewing) that took the eagle of the French 45th Ligne.

"Nothings gonna change my world!"

reply

[–] westwingjl 17 years ago

It was also because Sharpe really wasn't that high in the ranks yet, and was an officer from the ranks which most didn't like. Since he wasn't important, people would have thought he was insane if he told them he wanted an eagle.

reply

[–] matthewparry 17 years ago

Just to add to the other comments first to capture an eagle was a suicide mission that probably loses more than it gains in terms of overall victory.

Second Wellington wouldn;t want one officer off on a hunt for vengeance; hell he didn;t even like duels.

Third, it was at the time an impossibility. Colours were lost by incompetence (SHS) or by the utter slaughter of the talion before the colours are saved; even in the cahos of Waterloo only a few Eagles were taken in the actual battle.

reply

[–] emlinthegremlin 17 years ago

Getting the Eagle was a consolidation of his rank, although Wellesly had promoted him, there were higher authorities that had the power of demoting him and Simmerson had written a letter to these authorities to either get him demoted or sent to the West Indies which was a virtual death sentance, but if Sharpe could capture the Eagle, then even the authorities would aknowledge he deserved his position.

reply

[–] tomsk13 16 years ago

above is the advantage of capturing the eagle.

Wellington didnt want sharpe to have promised lennox and eagle because he didnt want to promote him knowing that sharpe would run off and get himself and his men killed for personal reasons.

"Hello? I just shot somebody, i did it on purpose!"

reply

[–] c-huddleston 16 years ago

Sorry, tomsk but if that was the case he wouldn't have promoted Sharpe at all.

He described Sharpe as the best commander of light infantry in the British Army when gazetting him Captain: a gazette that had little chance of confirmation. Getting an eagle was a near-suicidal thing to do. He couldn't afford to lose a capable leader on a fool's errand.

reply

[–] tomsk13 16 years ago

Exactly, and Sharpe knew this, which is why he made sure he didnt promise lennox the eagle, therefore he could assure wellington that he hadnt made the promise without having to lie.

welligton wouldnt have promoted sharpe knowing that he had promised an eagle to lennox, but he trusted sharpe when he said he hadnt. because as i stated above sharpe was carefull not to verbal make any such promise so he didnt have to betray wellington.

we are both pretty much saying the same thing

"Hello? I just shot somebody, i did it on purpose!"

reply

[–] magic8ball2112 15 years ago

The Brit army did indeed capture an Imperial Eagle at Talavera, this episode's battle. Like a British regimental flag the Eagles were considered the soul of a given unit &, like a British unit losing its flag, the loss of an Eagle was considered a grave dishonor. In a later battle on the Spanish Peninsula, one French soldier was found dead on the battlefield with his unit's Eagle hidden under his overcoat, in a vain attempt to smuggle it out of harm's way as his unit was in retreat.

Once the war got really bad for the French, Napoleon eventually forbade his units from carrying their Eagles into battle on account of so many of the "cuckoos" (as the British called them) landing in British hands!

reply

[–] c-huddleston 15 years ago

Sorry but no Eagle was captured at Talavera: Cornwell admits this in his historical notes at the end of the book.

reply

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Blueghost 8 years ago

by highlickbarrow » Tue May 16 2006 07:31:27
IMDb member since June 2005

Can anyone help, why when Lennox was dying and requested an eagle, was this meant to be kept quiet ?

It's because it would have made up for the shame of losing the King's colors; i.e. the regimental flag which allegedly the King himself has blessed or touched in some way, just as Napoleon allegedly touched or blessed the Eagle Standards that the French carried.

I can't imagine why everyone else posted different, and outlandish, reasons.

reply

[–] ttaskmaster 7 years ago

That always struck me as weird - I'm not fully au-fait with the mentality of this time period and why certain things were considered important.

Pride & Prejudice, for example, where a woman being forced to have relations with a man out of wedlock is considered a scandal and she bears the shame while he walks free...

So here Maj. Lennox accepts responsibility for something seriously shameful, yet immediately asks Sharpe to go do something extremely admirable, as if another man doing it would erase his shame?
I still don't get how that works... unless it's just Maj. Lennox's personal take on assuaging his own guilt?

reply