MovieChat Forums > The Return of Jafar (1994) Discussion > How was Jafar able to fool even Jasmine?

How was Jafar able to fool even Jasmine?

posted 16 years ago by Karma4301
23 replies | jump to latest

Now, you remember when Jafar slashed the Sultan's turban and put it in Aladdin's room, where an unknowing Jasmine found it, and tearfully sentenced Aladdin to death. But she foolishly came to the dungeon, where another Jasmine (who was actually Jafar) waited for her. However, they skipped all of that and cut to Abu and the Genie imprisoned, which panned to the right to reveal Abis Mal chaining Jasmine (the real one who came up the stairs) to the wall, with the fake Jasmine looking on. I guess the reason why Jafar was able to trick Jasmine into sentencing her love to death was because Jasmine had lost her trust him before when Aladdin let Iago in, but then Iago unwittingly made her trust Aladdin again. I wish they could have shown when Jasmine realized when it was to late that her father was alive, and Abis Mal and Jafar (disguising as Jasmine, possibly to keep the Sultan company) captured her. Why didn't they do that?
I think however, it was still illogical for Jasmine to be tricked that Aladdin killed her father when someone put the slashed turban in his room, which, as Jasmine, Razoul and the guards were unaware of, Jafar put it there. He probably used his magic to be quick to put the slashed turban there, where Jasmine found it.

[–] trisp 16 years ago

But the Jasmine who sentenced Aladdin to death was Jafar disguised as Jasmine. He had already had Jasmine trapped in the dungeon while he was carrying out the second to last portion of his revenge. You mentioned the "tearfully sentenced" Aladdin to death, but did you notice how she (or rather he) stopped when no one was looking?

"HOPSCOTCH!"

[–] Karma4301 16 years ago

Maybe it's just a coincidence that no one was looking, and she stopped because she was just so upset that she thought Aladdin loved her and now she felt fully betrayed, and thought it couldn't be reconciled unlike when Aladdin brought Iago into the palace. She probably wanted just one look at her beau because she probably was upset that Aladdin betrayed them all. But then she made a mistake going into the dungeon where Jafar, disguised as Jasmine probably to keep her father company, was waiting with Abis Mal. But after you see Jasmine coming up the steps, it cuts to Abu and the Genie, and pans over to the Sultan. Then you see Jasmine, just being chained to the wall by Abis Mal, as Jafar, disguised as Jasmine, looks on. There could have been a scene where Jasmine realizes too late that her father was alive, and she tried to get out, but Jafar and Abis Mal stop her and Abis Mal chains her to the wall like in the movie. That's all my theory.

[–] tink-likes-hawaii 16 years ago

No, it was Jafar dressed as Jasmine who sentenced Aladdin to death.
Jasmine wouldn't sentence him to death without an investigation. She also wouldn't randomly go to the basement.
I've always known it was Jafar in disguise. :)

[–] scottishdiva_01 16 years ago

Ahhh id wondered about that. You see i had been wondering how their relationship could just go back to the way it was after she had sentenced him to death. I dont know about you guys but if my other half sentenced me to death for something i hadnt done i just dont think i could love them the same way lol.

[–] Calluna 16 years ago

That was definitely Jafar, not Jasmine, who sentenced him to death. In the next scene he said to Jasmine, "You should have seen the look on Aladdin's face when "Princess Jasmine" sentenced him to death"; that wouldn't have made sense if Jasmine *had* been there to see it...

http://www.aladdincentral.org

[–] Karma4301 16 years ago

I think he was actually talking to the Sultan.

[–] Mr-Awesome 16 years ago

Seriously is is that hard to figure out that it was Jasmine disguised as Jafar? Theirs even a moment where he briefly turns back to Jafar to show Aladdin.

[–] Karma4301 15 years ago

You're right about one thing: Before the guards try to execute Aladdin, Jafar appears as Jasmine to say goodbye, before he briefly turns into Jafar. But that didn't really have anything to do with whether it was Jasmine or Jafar that sentenced Aladdin to death. And you're all forgetting something important: in the beginning, Jasmine was not sure if she could trust Aladdin, especially when he let Iago into the palace. However, it was not over even though Iago unwittingly brought her and Aladdin together again. You might think that Jasmine wouldn't have been fooled, but after her being upset because of Aladdin letting Iago into the palace might constitute her being fooled by Jafar into sentencing Aladdin to death. They didn't really direct it very well. After Jasmine sentences Aladdin to death, she ambiguously goes into the dungeon where she finds out too late that her father is alive, and another Jasmine was there too, only THAT was Jafar trying to either taunt the Sultan or catch the real Jasmine off guard so that Abis Mal can chain her to the wall. What they showed, however is first Jasmine walking up the stairs, then it cuts to the Genie and Abu, then pans left to the Sultan, and soon to Jasmine just being chained to the wall by Abis Mal as Jafar, disguised as Jasmine had been waiting for her, looked on. Then, he turns back into himself and tells the Sultan that he should have seen Jasmine's face when she sentenced Aladdin to death, and Jasmine realized that she was duped. I don't know if this incident forced Jasmine to always trust Aladdin from now on since I barely saw the animated series that started in 1994, even though I did see Aladdin and the King of Thieves, which Jasmine always trusted Aladdin and even understood why he let Cassim and Iago go, although Aladdin couldn't redeem Cassim until later Cassim realized that the Hand of Midas was not his ultimate treasure, but his son, Aladdin was. Just let me know if there were any instances of Jasmine not trusting Aladdin during the series. I mean these two instances: Aladdin sympathizing Iago, and Jafar tricking Jasmine into thinking Aladdin killed her father; are the only ones I know. And it does make sense, since, like I said, Jasmine wasn't sure if she could trust him and she didn't even know Jafar was back so she couldn't have known that Jafar put the slashed turban in Aladdin's room. The Genie, Abu, Carpet and the Sultan had seen Jafar before Aladdin did, since Aladdin found out when Jafar, as Jasmine, wished Aladdin goodbye, before turning into Jafar briefly and saying, "Street rat!" Just because Iago escaped the desert, doesn't mean they would all know Jafar was able to escape. So, Jasmine might have thought that Iago manipulated Aladdin to kill the Sultan, since she didn't trust Iago either.
And anyway, if you think that Jasmine was smiling when she left Aladdin to die, that's what it looks like a lot of times when people are crying. If you want proof, see Georgie Henley in the 2005 Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.

[–] Szabu 15 years ago

If she had sentenced to death, she'd have apologized after everyone was freed.

Jasmine isn't dumb. She'd ask herself "Why the hell would Aladdin take back the Sultan's torn turban? It's evidence against him."

Rasoul is stupid enough not to think about it, but Jasmine is clever.

So, no, it was Jafar in a disguise.

[–] Karma4301 15 years ago

You're right, Jasmine isn't dumb. But, like I said, in the beginning, she didn't trust Aladdin, especially after he let Iago into the palace. So she probably thought that Aladdin was manipulated by Iago to kill the Sultan, no matter how clever she is. And it doesn't matter if Iago inadvertently brought Jasmine and Aladdin back together. It only makes sense even after the incident with Iago was "resolved," Jasmine could still not fully trust Aladdin. And it came to an all-time nadir when Jafar put the Sultan's slashed turban and the dagger he created in Aladdin's room. Jasmine isn't dumb, but she didn't trust Aladdin yet, so this could still be possible. And like I said earlier, she probably thought that Iago manipulated Aladdin to kill her father.

Oh, by the way, I saw a clip from the movie again, right when after Jasmine unwittingly came into the dungeon where she found her father alive and Jafar disguising as her either to taunt the Sultan or catch the real Jasmine off guard, and Abis Mal chained her to the wall. I realized it wasn't the Sultan that Jafar said should have seen Jasmine's face when she sentenced Aladdin to death, it was Abis Mal, even if he was off frame. It may have looked like it was Jasmine Jafar was talking to, but I think Jasmine knew what she'd done, but was grieved when she realized that Jafar tricked her and Razoul and the other guards.

[–] Szabu 15 years ago

I still don't think that it was Jasmine.
There is no decisive evidence.

[–] Karma4301 15 years ago

What about the fact that Jasmine didn't trust Aladdin? I stated that very clearly, and it is proven when she gets upset with Aladdin for letting Iago into the palace. And it doesn't matter if Iago accidentally brought Jasmine and Aladdin together again. And one can assume that Jasmine, because she didn't even know Jafar was back until it was too late and she found her father alive in the dungeon with Jafar and Abis Mal (the former obviously disguising as Jasmine to catch the real one off guard, but they skipped all that for some reason), though that Iago had turned Aladdin against her and the Sultan, and manipulated Aladdin into murdering the Sultan. So, in summary, Jasmine didn't trust Aladdin yet, and that's why Jafar fooled her. I know I asked the question earlier in the title, but I figured it out.

[–] Karma4301 15 years ago

And I also believe that Razoul and the guards have always been loyal to Jafar, despite that they claim they're loyal to the Sultan. I mean, I know that the Sultan and Jasmine didn't know that Jafar was evil until later, but when Jafar came to say goodbye to Aladdin as Jasmine (now THAT'S when Jafar was disguising as Jasmine), and revealed himself, saying "Street rat!" I'm pretty sure Razoul and the guards saw that and it's very hard not to see or hear that when Jafar was that close to where Aladdin was, but they still covered his head with a bag to behead Aladdin, until, with Iago's help, the Genie saved Aladdin and the others.
My point is if it was Jafar pretending to be Jasmine to sentence Aladdin to death, he wouldn't need to disguise himself, because even though they won't admit it, Razoul and the other guards have been loyal to Jafar, especially in the first movie. Jafar ordered them to throw Aladdin in the dungeon, where he would be helped to escape by an old man who turns out to be Jafar. Also, after Aladdin as prince Ali Ababwa took Jasmine on a magic carpet ride, the guards seized Aladdin on Jafar's orders and threw him into the water to drown, forcing Aladdin to sacrifice his 2nd wish to have the Genie save his life. Those may have happened before the Sultan knew of Jafar's treachery (even though the audience knew already), but I'm pretty sure that Razoul has always been with Jafar, so Jafar wouldn't need to disguise himself. So that means it was Jasmine, who did not know that Jafar obviously put the Sultan's slashed turban and Jafar's dagger into Aladdin's room to frame him, that sentenced Aladdin to death. And she didn't smile like it says in the memorable quotes. But I think they shouldn't have skipped ahead after Jasmine was coming up the steps, unaware of the danger at hand, then it cuts to the Genie in the orb, with pans to Abu, then Carpet, that the turban-less Sultan, and then Jasmine being chained to the wall by Abis Mal after coming up the stairs, and they should have shown how Jasmine, when she came into the dungeon how she was shocked by the fact that her father was alive, and was caught off guard by another Jasmine, which was really Jafar. Now THAT was Jafar, not the Jasmine who sentenced Aladdin to death. And when Jafar turned back into himself, he actually bragged to Abis Mal that he should have seen Aladdin's face when Jasmine sentenced him to death, and Jafar being an all-powerful Genie, must have known what Jasmine did after Jafar framed Aladdin since being omniscient is not disallowed for a Genie, only killing, making people fall in love, and bringing people back from the dead. He may have been able to supersede the killing prohibition doing things such as tricking Jasmine into sentencing Aladdin to death, but I'm pretty sure he is omniscient, so he sensed what an unknowing Jasmine did.

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] ss5mmyers 15 years ago

Jafar later says to Jasmine that "Princess Jasmine" sentenced him to death, not you sentenced him to death, letting her know he disguised himself as her for that part of it.

[–] Karma4301 15 years ago

Okay, I was wrong about him saying to the Sultan, "Princess Jasmine" sentenced to death, but I think Jafar was actually talking to Abis Mal, who cheered on Jafar after Jasmine was distraught about being duped. Jasmine may have reacted first, but I still think Jafar was talking to Abis Mal. And, as a Genie, Jafar is practically omnipotent when he wants to be. That's how he knew what was going on when he tricked Jasmine and the guards while he was about to lure her into a trap. Jafar may have been limited with the rules that he can't kill anyone, he can't make anyone fall in love, and he can't bring people back from the dead. Like the fact that Genie's can help their master escape from eternal imprisonment (as Aladdin denied the Genie could because of the "limitations on wishes"), but still Aladdin was allowed one "freebie," and no more, Jafar, when he wants to, can see what people like Jasmine or Aladdin were doing. Those three rules the Blue Genie listed are his only limitations beside being a prisoner of the lamp.
And, like I said before, Razoul and the guards may claim to serve the Sultan, but I think, even though they are more loyal to Jafar, even though the Sultan started to consider him a traitor. Razoul helped Jafar try to kill Aladdin when he pretended to be Prince Ali Ababwa, or "Abooboo," as Jafar called him. When Jafar actually DID disguise as Jasmine saying "Goodbye," to Aladdin, and then turning into himself saying, "Street rat!" Razoul and his guards couldn't have not seen that before they sacked Aladdin head and tried to behead him, but the Genie, being freed by Iago, saved him just in time. I know that Razoul threatened Aladdin if Iago pulls another "toad out of line," but I still think until the end of the movie when Jafar was gone forever, Razoul and the guards were loyal to Jafar. So Jafar didn't need to disguise as Jasmine to have to trick the guards into trying to execute him. All Jafar had to do is put the slashed turban and the daggar in Aladdin's room. Also I think he must have known that Jasmine didn't really trust Aladdin yet. She showed it when he let Iago in. And it didn't matter if Iago accidentally brought Jasmine and Aladdin together again or not. The bottom line is, Jafar didn't need to disguise as Jasmine, since the guards are usually more loyal to him than the Sultan.

[–] TheLittleSongbird 15 years ago

BETHANY COX
"Music comes from within, from your heart and from your soul."

It was Jafar disguised as Jasmine, when he sentenced him to death. Hear how he emphasised "Princess Jasmine?" It was ironically spoken.

[–] voyagerandsouthpark 15 years ago

<Now, you remember when Jafar slashed the Sultan's turban and put it in Aladdin's room, where an unknowing Jasmine found it, and tearfully sentenced Aladdin to death>

how could you not have caught on that it was jafar disguised as jasmin who sentenced aladdin to death, jafar must have kidnapped jasmine early on.

<But she foolishly came to the dungeon, where another Jasmine (who was actually Jafar) waited for her. However, they skipped all of that and cut to Abu and the Genie imprisoned, which panned to the right to reveal Abis Mal chaining Jasmine (the real one who came up the stairs) to the wall, with the fake Jasmine looking on. I guess the reason why Jafar was able to trick Jasmine into sentencing her love to death was because Jasmine had lost her trust him before when Aladdin let Iago in, but then Iago unwittingly made her trust Aladdin again. I wish they could have shown when Jasmine realized when it was to late that her father was alive, and Abis Mal and Jafar (disguising as Jasmine, possibly to keep the Sultan company) captured her. Why didn't they do that?>

that was Jasmine in the dungeon not Jafar, plus she knows her fathers alive as he's right next to her chained to the wall.

sir, sir, i gotta check and see if you've soiled yourself" Peter Griffin - Family Guy

[–] Szabu 15 years ago

Why didn't they do that?
Because it's not what happened.

It was Jafar, disguised as Jasmine. First of all, Jasmine is a pacifist. But then again, in the next scene, you see Jafar turning back from his Jasmine disguise to his real form, then laughs and says "You should've seen the look on Aladdin face, when PRINCESS JASMINE sentenced him to death".

If it was Jasmine, she had seen his face, and also, by emphasizing the words "Princess Jasmine" the way ironic Jafar did leads us to know that it really wasn't Jasmine.

Also, Jafar is not stupid. If he can fool Rasoul, why wouldn't he do it? He doesn't take such risks.

[–] Fan_ever 15 years ago

The OP keeps saying the same stuff over and over again. I don't think he's going to change his mind about the real Jasmine sentencing Aladdin to death (even though she didn't), no matter what anyone says. *sigh*

Ben Grimm forever!

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] MsShayXPear 14 years ago

It never crossed my mind that it was the real Jasmine
The way the says her name when he's talking to her and the way she gasps when he tells her what he's done.
Besides the real Jasmine wouldn't sentence him to death on so little evidence. I don't care how much trust she had lost in him... she loved him.

"Come on... Sneak a peek..." (Medusa, Percy Jackson)

[–] Island_Of_Ireland 12 years ago

Yes..I mean..it's CLEARLY Jafar as Jasmine the whole time..we don't even need to see him chain up Jasmine to know that its not the real Jasmine sentencing Aladdin to death.

seriously, there is NO reason to believe it's the real Jasmine, at ALL, I knew it was Jafar the second "Jasmine" opened her mouth..