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Men have more right to be upset about this movie than women

posted 10 years ago by polet_bally
10 replies | jump to latest

Funny how the film's portrayal of women seems to create most outrage, but if anyone has the right to be upset, it's in fact men. Every single male character in the movie other than Brian is a horrible and/or violent individual:

Johnny: Don't get me started on him
Sebastian: Rapist, sadist, ultra materialistic maniac who plans to commit suicide when he turns 40 because he doesn't want to be old
Archie: Put his father in the hospital in a violent outburst, threatened to "cut Johnny's head open" and seems to be violent towards his girlfriend as well
Limo chauffeur: Starts yelling and shouting profanities 10 seconds after he realizes that he allowed the wrong person to sit in the limo - partially his own fault
Then there's a group of young men who beat the crap out of a total stranger in a dark alley for fun.

Overall, the women are portrayed better in this film. At least they're caring. They're certainly not perfect, but what do you expect in a movie of this sort? And for the record, I think that the film is a masterpiece. It makes you think, like few other films.

[–] drnutkin 10 years ago

Well, I think a lot of the comments in the long gender-based outrage thread touched on these points. Personally I don't think anyone should be upset at this movie on behalf of either gender. It's a reductive way to look a movie like this, but it does employ a fair number of gender stereotypes (men are more prone to violence and severe mental illness, women are in turn prone to enabling dependent behaviors). We all know that these generalities do play out in life but so many crap films rely on them as if everyone conforms to them in lock-step that I think many people just go nuts when they show up in a movie - even in a thoughtful and layered film like this that to my mind doesn't merit that kind of knee-jerk dismissive reaction. Also, not that it really relates to the movie as a standalone piece, but Leigh's responses to accusations of misogyny in the film took some weird turns (talking about how his actresses would've cut his balls off if he were really out of line, saying Johnny's sexual aggressions were "rapistic" but not rape, as I recall) which also caused some friction in the previous thread.

But yes, agreed that this movie makes you think! It's just about one of the grimmest looks at male/female interactions I can think of (amid its larger theme of interpersonal isolation) so there's bound to be gender-fighting in people's reactions.

[–] magicmtn 9 years ago

well, brian ( the hotel guard) seemed like an alright bloke. maybe a bit awkward and lonely, though.

[–] maturity 8 years ago

His line "don't waste your life" was pathetic. What is he doing but wasting his life rotting sitting in a chair alone in an empty building, totally cut off from everybody?

[–] chilone 8 years ago

So.... you didn't notice all the irony and contradictions in their entire conversation (and entire movie)?

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

[–] maturity 8 years ago

Sure I noticed the contradictions but he's basically in no position to criticize Johnny. He's lonely and his life is empty and miserable. He's one step above Johnny; he has a job and a home, while Johnny walked away from his home and didn't seem to have a job. He said he and Sophie were on the dole. Eventually Johnny's money taken from Jeremy will run out, he'll get hungry and cold and go back to his flat, or get a new one, or get a job. He doesn't really look like a bum. He seems educated and dresses like a college professor or grad student or intellectual. He was too smart to fit in like a normal person and just do a mind-numbing job.

[–] bunnywithanaxe 8 years ago

I think I agree with you. The theme of the movie seems to be,"why I, Mike Leigh, hate men and why any women who puts up with men is an idiot."

[–] bunnywithanaxe 8 years ago

And I think that is what makes this film great-- the artists descent into his own self loathing is so thorough and unrelenting.

[–] itsahoverboard 8 years ago

Ummmm I def don't think the portrayal of women is the issue here, it's the treatment of women and depiction of violence against them by the main male characters. Though I agree the men are all terrible for the most part.

[–] Bazarovv 8 years ago

Why would depicting violence against women be an issue?

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"My hideous face precludes any chance I have for a social life"

[–] bunnywithanaxe 8 years ago

It's very difficult to watch, but in no way is it romanticized or sensualized.

And except for Sophie, who is just such a lost soul, the women seem refreshingly capable of clapping back. Even the woman at the beginning is less a broken victim and more a really pissed off force of nature.