I wonder if Johnny had a diagnosis such as Schizophrenia or Bipolar disorder? any ideas?
shareInteresting that you you use the word "Diagnosis"
I'm watching this film (for the 3rd time)right now and I'm noticing some new things.
He's physically Ill. I think he's dying and that's why his behavior is so fatalistic and self destructive. Besides the coughing, the grabbing his heart at certain moments and the seizure, I've noticed that louise says he looks like crap when she first sees him and that Maggie (the scottish girl) thinks he's about 40 when he's actually 27. She doesn't belive him when he tells her his age. (There must be a link here to Jeromy proclaiming that he's going to kill himself when he's 40 but I haven't quite figured that out yet)
This futher enforces my interpretation of the scene when he meets Jeromy (or whatever his name is). Besides the mild politeness he shows the Scottish couple, Jeromy is the only person in the film that he is legitamtely drawn to. Jeromy seems to be an incarnation of a destructive force and Johnny behaves towrads him as if "the end is finally here". The line "I'm still wet" seems to be saying "I'm too young to die" but at the same time accepting and even craving his own end at that moment.
Maybe I'm wrong about this terminally ill thing, but it would explain the angst, self-destruction, and extreme displeasure with everything around him.
Yeah I thought he was ill too, probably due to his transient lifestyle.
I liked the line when the Scottish girl asks Johnny if he's ever seen a dead body and he says "Only me own."
I dont think this was about illness at all, im pretty sure this was about philosophy and prophesy theories about the apocalypse, as is discussed alot in the scene with the security guard.
the reason he lives his life that way is that he's sure the human race is coming to an end in the year 1999. He just seems like a highly intelligent but very pessimistic angry guy, wandering the streets and forcing his apocalyptic rantings (and philosophical rantings in general) on to everyone he encounters.
this is the reason the end is sooo *beep* awesome. When the blonde roomate is freaking out and complaining about how all the filth and disorganization is just so continuous.. and she just wishes is could all just... and she cant finish her sentence.. and johnny fills in "end."
"you wish it could all end."
f8cking incredible tight ending.
this is a totally wrong approach
although the movie suggests that Johnny might have some disease or disorder, that's by no means the main driving force behind his actions and thoughts
his pessimism is existential in its nature and his alleged disease, whatever it may be, should only be viewed as one of its many manifestations
[deleted]
Well, according to the scene with Brian the security guard, Johnny mentions that he has chronic systolic palpitations and acute neuralgia, both of which aren't necessarily fatal. If he has these symptoms due to something MORE serious, then maybe, but it's never mentioned, so I don't think he's DYING. I think Worstward is right in saying that he's just existentially pessimistic. Just a pissed-off genious.
shareI have acute neuralgia, and while it's true it won't kill me, I kind of wish it would.
chronic pain tends to contribut significantly to pissed-offness, and is a variable independent of genius, meaning that it is equally likely that acute neuralgia could effect a genius as a dunce.
no, this is absolutely the correct interpretation; thanks to the poster who brought it up.
[deleted]
You might be right about the fatal disease he has - if you recall the woman window dancer, as he says he doesn't want to do it with her since she looked like his mother, he then said somethin like "You'd catch something terrible from me"....maybe he had AIDS and was dying? It just came to me, since you brought it up!
Thanks!
I think he was *beep* maggie when he said he was 27. Wow, David Thewlis was only 30 when he did Naked.
I found it interesting how in the scene where Magie and Archie are fighting and he just carries on walking
I recall the fact that he is ill but I don't think that that is the true fact of his *beep* with different individuals.
What I remembered says Louise after he gives his version of how he did get to London, "You haven't changed a bit....!"
But what we don't know is that he maybe has been ill for a long time.
He is a sociopath and likes to mind *beep* and test people. Like Sophie. He pulls her hair and says:""Do you still love me?" I think also that this is his way to say: Piss off I'm no good.
I think you are spot-on. I rub elbows with the physically ill, esp the physically ill who do not receive adequate medical care, and they typically have a death wish. why not? they have nothing to lose.
such an excellent analysis which tells me that I ought to pay better attention when I see the film again. :)
pshaw. we are all "terminally ill"
none of us make it out of here any other way.
and that is the point to this film.
this is nihilism. this is embracing and laughing with nihilism.
i have seen this film dozens of times more than any other
it is the best film i've ever seen
the only one that gets me.
I only saw it for the first time last night but when he turns down the older lady ("you look like my mum") he says "you don't want to shag me, you'll catch something terrible" (can't remember the line exactly). Surely this implies his terminal ailment is an STI i.e. AIDS.
share[deleted]
i watched this movie yet again today for the first time in a very long time. I posted this because i also noticed that he seems to talk to himself...there is a scene where he on the staircase in the house and he closes his eyes and shakes his head and says "move, move". Its almost as if he is somewhere else. Also throughout the film he shakes his head a lot. its almost like his own "tick". This is seen specifically toward the very last scene when he is running away down that long road, right before the credits come on, he shakes his head violenty and has his eyes closed. That is why i thought maybe he had been diagnosed with a mentally ill disorder such as schizophrenia.
shareHe has something called pikey-syndrome.
[deleted]
"The slang term for such a person is 'scab' if you're English and 'bum' if you're American."
Er, no pal, the slang term for a homeless person in England is not 'scab', I don't know where you got that from. 'Scab' usually refers to a strike breaker in the the UK. Couldn't let that one go by unchecked.
[deleted]
If you ever visit the UK you'll find out you're wrong on this one; interestingly there's really no slang term for itinerants in the UK that's comparable with 'bum'.
shareLinguistic corner, just for the record:
"Bum" USA = "Tramp" UK
Curiously, "bum" in the UK is "fanny" in the USA. In the UK "fanny" refers to a different part of the body, which can lead to confusion. Just as the word "tramp" has a different meaning in the USA. Anyway...
[deleted]
OK, this has nothing to do with the film, but where are you from exactly? Where are "bums" called "scabs" in the UK? The only use of "scab" that I know of, other than the kind you get on your skin, is "strikebreaker". It's not a common name for itinerants as far as I know... It's a first for me anyhow, and I'm from London BTW.
share[deleted]
Posted by tylerdanielblack on (Mon Feb 18, 2008 @ 09:47:27) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"He doesn't have any terminal illness or STD. He is sick because he abuses his health with junk food, smoking, no exercise and generally subjects his body to unhealthy situations like sleeping on the streets in London during the winter. That, plus he doesn't strike me as the sort of person who has a great deal of money to eat properly and any money he does have, cigarettes and alcohol would get priority. The slang term for such a person is 'scab' if you're English and 'bum' if you're American. When was the last time you saw a homeless who was a picture of health? He doesn't have cancer or AID's he just abuses his body and is under nourished.
Regarding the scene with the elderly lady who he refuses to sleep with ... do you really think he rejects her because he doesn't want to infect her with anything? Believe me, he's not that kind. The reason why he refuses to have sex with her is for the very simple reason that she wants him to and he pities her for it. She's lost her youth and her physical attraction and she's so desperate for attention and loving that he uses this to put her in a position of vulnerability and then delivers a cutting insult by saying 'no thanks love, you look like me mum' which is precisely the last thing she wants to hear. It reconfirms to her that she is ugly and undesirable, because she offers herself to Johnny (who ain't a pretty picture himself) and even he turns her down. The notion that he turns her down because he doesn't want to infect her with an STD is ridiculous.
There is no 'diagnosis' for Johnny because he isn't suffering from any physical illness. It's a mindset more than anything else, he is manipulative, sadistic, pityless, immoral, unethical, has a superiority complex but what makes this monster so compelling is that the fact that he is both articulate and intelligent and has a sense of humour in spite of his pessmism. Unorthodox and therefore fascinating by default and revolting by choice."
This is a great post, tylerdanielblack ! In spite of Johnny being extremely complex, ambiguous and almost unfathomable, you've successfully analysed, dissected and, more importantly, understood his character, mindset and pysche, imo. Well done!
Elderly is a bit strong an adjective to use on that woman don't you think? She was middle aged, not elderly...
shareI actually sat down and analyzed this movie a while ago. Partly becus i think its excellent, and partly to... yes - diagnoze Johnny. I have previusly worked in a correctional center for criminal youths,, and there we constantly had to diagnoze people.
I can´t remember all of my conclutions in detail, but there are several factors playing in here... the most obvius is destructivnes. Both selfdestructive and directed outward. Reason: he is dying and feeling bitter
The medical condition that is slowly killing him is actually mentioned in the dialogue with the nightguard. Cant remember exactly but he actually mentions it during their walk in the building. ("well i have...NNNN something something" just as he is leaving the room/set) Its a lungdisease at least... could be COL
It seems as he is envius of the persons that isn´t dying, and that is what makes him misstreat his surroundings. A sort of missdirected anger. (can lash out at the disease in itself, so he lashes out at the persons not having the disease)
Next factor - He is extremly intelligent
And not just book-smart. He´s brain is practically bubbling with thoughts and he wants... he neeeeds to get them out ot his head. Needs to communicate with someone on the same level. Needs the Give & Take of other human beings, like everyone does. But he is to smart and ends up feeling like the only adult in a room full of children.
Next factor - In Louise he found someone to communicate with. Someone he finally could connect with. And she left him...
You can really see the history between them and Johnnys bitterness when he pulls out the postcard, and that they are on the same level is obvius when you her them speak.
another factor.. (woh this is getting long *s*) is, and I can unfortunatly not remember in detail how i came to this conclution, isa that Johnny probably was abused as a child. Not just misstreated but probably sexually to. I remember it was a combination of the comments he mekes of hes mother, with other things...
I have to watch the film again and refresh my memory.....
Well... those are the factors i can think of straight up.
Had i met this person in real I couldn´t have put a clinical diagnosis on him. Stress-induced depression from dying is one part. Lingering Post Traumatic Stress from the brakeup with Louise is another. Ad that ontop of a character allready messed up from his childhood and youll get a Johnny :-)
Johnny is a reeeally complex character, and yes:
I think David Thewlis deserves an Oscar for his brilliant
capture of this deeply disturbed and troubled man.
[deleted]
Oh crap! Deja vu! (See my post above).
I said the same thing you said, almost verbatim, before I saw your post! Cheers, to deja vu! ;-)
Johnny is obviously very bright, but he has an untrained mind. He's never had a real sparring partner who could tell him when he was talking cr@p and force him into more disciplined thinking.
He seems to have damaged frontal lobes. He can blurt out brilliant insights, but he can't exercise the kind of "executive" brain functions that make a person fit into civilized society: restraint, critical-mindedness, prudence, planning and foresight. When you consider his incessant probing for the other person's place of greatest vulnerability, it's a good bet that he has antisocial personality disorder. Definitely not a person I would want to spend any time with (no matter how sexy).
He's doomed and he knows it ..... nd we care about him because we feel he could have turned out much differently in a less abusive home.
Nice insight - sounds like U've had some psych. courses! ;-)
shareguys
he mentions a heart disorder! Go through the film and listen to his monologue - he mentions a heart problem. I'll watch it again soon enough and post the quote. I think he is a character 'really living life', every moment: alive through every moment, reacting and acting honestly to what he encounters. He's not mentally ill or defective. He personally challanges everyone he meets and the illusions they sustain against reality. For the security guard it is ''the future' and his little hut in Ireland' the place he lived in a previoous reality.
Thewlis is close to death because he is so close to his life, and he sees the circular games people play. E.g. the the Scottish lovers meet up after a prolongued absence, only to verbally abuse each other and play a game of chase that is constantly repetative.
Naked is a film that throws ambiguity onto the idea of our times as civilised. There is a dark aged feel about the film. People are predatory, bored, lost, without a compass - women are vulnerable, people are confused. Ambiguity is the key to this film. The nasty bastard 'Jeremy' likes to hang around the flat, because there is a fuss being made around him, he is the ulitimate landlord.
Thewlis's character, no mater how intelligent and well read, cannot resolve and comprehend the world and make it palatable for himself. He is forty in the eyes of the Scotish girl because he has seen the life and reached a premature cynicism. He must continue... he simply has to pick himself up again,
The original poster and Banquet were spot on. Banquet wrote: "He seems to have damaged frontal lobes. He can blurt out brilliant insights, but he can't exercise the kind of "executive" brain functions that make a person fit into civilized society: restraint, critical-mindedness, prudence, planning and foresight."
I think it's a combination of a neurological condition, most likely damaged prefrontal cortex damage:
"Subsequent studies on patients with prefrontal injuries have shown that, in testing, they verbalize what the most appropriate social responses would be under certain circumstances, yet when actually performing, they will still pursue behavior which is aimed at immediate gratification even if they know the longer term results will be self-defeating."
Also, I think he's probably a bit Schizo, obsessive compulsive, and has a bad heart Arrhythmia.
Taken together, these are awful conditions to suffer from. Drink and drugs exacerbate this, so Johnny is going downhill rather quickly.
I bet Johnny comes from an abusive alcoholic household in Manchester.
I don't know, as abraisive as Johnny could be, when he really bothered someone, he knew to back off. When the cafe girl started to cry, you could see him soften up and show a hint of compassion. You could see a degree of empathy, and affect wasn't absent. To me this rules out antisocial personality disorder. If you had to stick him with a personality disorder, Borderline would be my guess, yet nothing fits cleanly with any personality disorder. OCD, bi-polar, and Schizophrenia are likely candidates.
Also, Johnny is incredibly bright and those who are exceptionally intelligent often develop quirks and eccentricites that are sometimes independent of other psychological conditions.
Oh, and I'm not sure he's dying, I think he just neglects himself greatly and may have some masichistic tendencies.
A bad heart? As in, he could die any day? Poor bloke! Yea, I'm sure this is one movie you'd need to see more than once to actually start to 'get it'!
And yea, that poncey 'Jeremy' was a real rat, wasn't he?!
"The Film which you are about to see is an
account of a tragedy that befell a group of 5 youths."
*beep* sake,
what a brilliant contribution flowbeer. Previous messangers too - why does it have to be a medical condition. I admit I've leaned a little too heavy on that. It's not the point though, it's a film not a medical exam. Yeah lets get...
Thanks. Isn't it great when they come in handy?
share[deleted]
if he really is ill, he is probably past caring.
I would guess that any depression would be secondary to his chronic pain problem. also, coping with pain tends to tie up the executive function, leading to the symptoms you have described.
schizophrenia and bipolar I do not see, and I do have acquaintances who can check the boxes on one or both.
I say he has a death wish. and probably a good deal of pent-up anger as it would appear that he's got a lot to offer, and no outlet for his talents. finally, chronic pain is a real buzzkill.
you don't want to shag me, you'll catch something cruel...
that's what he says...
he's just feeling guilt-ridden. He knows he's been terrible, yet he can't help being destructive.
[deleted]
Ya, he's not brainwashed. A rare condition ...
shareJust my own two cents--not inspired by this discussion actually, I looked this stuff up on my own after seeing the movie because I'm a bit of a medical geek.
He tells Brian the security guard at one point "I’ve got chronic systolic palpitations and acute f@&*ing neuralgia." Now, if this is true and not just something he's making up/came across while reading/whatever, then the neuralgia means he's pretty much in varying degrees of constant pain, which can at times be positively excruciating (this could explain the headache at the beginning of the film when he meets Sophie, and also perhaps the seizure near the end, since seizure medication can be used to treat the condition). Also, if he has a bad sciatic nerve, which he alludes to after the poster man kicks him, then that's just added pain and would definitely explain why he was unable to walk enough to get out of the street for quite a while after that attack. The "chronic systolic palpitations" could allude to some sort of heart defect or disease that may or may not be terminal.
Any optimistically-challenged (I like that term, introgod) behavior he exhibits could be a result of the near-constant agony he's in due to the neuralgia/sciatica, if that is indeed the truth. The pain would also probably age him considerably, which may be why Maggie thinks he's 40. He's also quite thin and you don't see him sleeping a lot--malnutrition and insomnia are side effects of neuralgia, as are suicide and severe depression, actually. As far as "Isadora Duncan" catching something "cruel" from him--while neuralgia can be caused by herpes, I think that was more a statement of his worldview than an admission of an STD. He *could* also be bipolar--the scene in which he leaves Sophie and Louise after exhibiting some rather manic behavior could be evidence of that, but it's a bit difficult to say. I'm just going on what he tells Brian himself, which could be a lie in the end anyway, since you know he's read the medical books Sandra had around the house and could have just gotten those terms from them.
Who knows? Rather like the bloke, anyway, though. David Thewlis is an absolute genius. All medical info courtesy of Wikipedia, by the way.
Well that's what you got from taking what he says as literal truth. So be it. I realize yer just following through on a point.
Try living on the street with no real friends and no home, and not eating regularly, and exposed to the elements, and see how you feel in a couple months. Would it be reasonable to expect "malnutrition", "insomnia", and "severe depression." I think so. And some paranoia, too, and talking to yerself would not be out of the question either. And if you were to age faster, nobody would be surprised.
Alone most of time without the usual distractions (like what 'sane' people do, you know, shop, follow Paris Hilton), may cause him to dwell on his aches more, which are actually day to day normal aches. Exposed to the elements, hey, he would ache more for real anyway!
So I say his poor physical condition is because of his lifestyle. His lifestyle is because of his uniqueness. There is no place for him in society, as he is.
Different does not immediately translate into 'sick.' A shrink won't accept him because a shrink's job is to get everyone to fit society, whatever it is, today, yesterday, tomorrow, and then they invent labels for people that refuse to fit. Let's put away the book, and hypodermic, too, ok, and diagnose society instead, and ask why it has so little sympathy for people that don't march to its drum ......
Thx
Personally I think he suffers from a form of autism and depression. His obession with philosophy is common in autism and walking away on his bad foot, a form of self harm a common effect of depression.
David Thewlis fan for life.
E.Constable
You attempt to take apart and neatly distribute Johnnys disposition and way of life to enable yourself to "understand" him. We will attempt to understand anything, including why johnny does what he does and is what he is. BUT thats where the problems lies. to attempt to put his "obsession with philosophy" down to autism essentially sums up exactly what is wrong with your way of looking at the whole picture. His problems are not medical. His symptoms obviously can be measured in medical terms (ie autism, depression) but these conditions are merely subjective and only symptoms. This to me is a naked,desperate attempt to make johnny in our own image, as though he is one moved by cause and purpose.
Every issue johnny raises is a deeply effecting issue that were we to follow the logic to its furthest extent would likely blow our brains out. However, Johnny is not about blowing his brains out. He'd rather hang about to enojy the earthly offerings available, tea, cigarettes, books,sex and perhaps most of all to try and prove himself correct by waiting expectedly for the apocalypse.
His life is his own self fulfilling prophecy.
yes, I agree. The explanations for his behaviour and personality aren't medical symptoms - even if they're excacerbated by such. They are rather symptomatic of societal and pyschological preassures. Presasures which enact upon him. He is clearly an intelligent man who chooses to live as closely to the truth as he can - whether or not this has bad outcomes or not.
share>So I say his poor physical condition is because of his lifestyle. His lifestyle is because of his uniqueness. There is no place for him in society, as he is.
Well, I have a lot of the problems that are being described in this thread. Difference is I'm not a sadistic b@stard. Although I did want to kick his ass a few minutes into the movie. What a creep.
Self-absorption + impoverishment + hopelessness + Nihilism = Monomaniac
I think it's obvious he's from an abusive background. He can't deal with being loved, he can be quite violent, he sabotages the attempts of anyone to get close to him, he needs to exert a dominance in most situations usually intellectually and I think this probably explains why he is like he is. Louise seems to be the only one that really understood him, but couldn't deal with his endless negativity. Also his sense of being no good would also indicate a battered self-esteem from his early life.
share[deleted]
[deleted]
[deleted]
[deleted]
[deleted]
There's not really a great deal in the film that suggests his health was diminished through longterm homelessness, he arrived with quite a few ailments by ford cortina, there was nothing mentioned about any housing predicament whilst he was in Manchester only that he had to leave or risk a beating.
He obviously wasn't a well man physically, mentally it centred around the abuse he encountered as a child by his father, about 3-4 references to that in all, as far as his attitude goes and the way he treats others, the line "monkey see, monkey do" comes to mind, the cycle of abuse i think this was the predominant theme.
It's fair to say that his treatment as a child has left him scarred, and this may manifest itself through characteristics that are diagnosable as well as mentioned, but i think his disconnection stemmed from the said abuse.
Naked dealt with poinient issues, lonelyness in a big city, peoples preocupation with age and the fear aging and the main theme destructive abusive relationships caried along nicely through witty dialogue and contra bass, cello and harp, a winning combo.
Loved this film, refreshingly bleak, ugly and beautiful, a farcry from alot of the hollywood nonsense that's churned out.
I looked at this thread because I'm an actor and I wondered how Thewlis understood the character. What was he trying to get? I'm not sure.
In the beginning, doesn't he mention his mother having died and doesn't his ex not know this? I might be wrong, but if not then this suggests it was a recent occurrence.
No one here has brought up the most obvious literary predecessor of Thewlis's character, Jimmy Porter of John Osborne's play "Look Back in Anger." The two are very similar in their bitter, intelligent and yet paranoiac views of society. They also share the dead mother.
I feel that the character may be clinically depressed, but that can be environmentally based. If his mother died recently, and then he leaves Manchester to find the one woman who once loved him, it would lead me to believe the source of his rage is emotional. The conditions he mentions sound more hypochondriacal than fatal and their is no line about STDs. He says he would transmit cruelty.
These are just my conclusions, ones I sought out to understand how such a compex performance was pulled off with such consistency.