MovieChat Forums > Murder in the Heartland (1993) Discussion > Why Paint Caril Fugate as a sympathetic ...

Why Paint Caril Fugate as a sympathetic character?


I am not entirely familiar with the Starkweather/Fugate murders aside from seeing a few films and reading a few articles. The most in depth article I've read about the case is here http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/mass/starkweather/index_ 1.html

Everything I've seen and read paints Caril as someone who was not a hostage but someone who painted herself as a hostage after being caught. So my question is why did this movie paint her as a victim, a hostage? Is there anyone who knows more about what went on or could point me to where I can get a more in-depth take on the murders? I've tried searching google but all I come up with is a bunch of random stuff.

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This is a really good book...

http://www.amazon.com/Waste-Land-Odyssey-Charles-Starkweather/dp/06710 01981/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200272205&sr=1-17


This one is good also...


http://www.amazon.com/Starkweather-story-murder-Great-Plains/dp/093490 4316/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200272433&sr=1-1


I haven't gotten this book yet, but I will...

http://www.amazon.com/Outside-Valentine-Novel-Liza-Ward/dp/0312424892/ ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200272522&sr=1-1

It's written by the granddaughter of Mr and Mrs Ward, who were killed by Charlie.



Also, I'll let you and everyone else know that the episode of American Justice about them will be airing on A&E on Jan 25th. It's called Spree Killer, and it airs in the morning, and again later that day. Check your local listings.


AVADA KEDAVRA!!!

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Thanks a lot. I recently finished reading the first book you recommended "Wasteland." I'll check out the rest and thanks a bunch for posting about the American Justice, I'll make sure to set a reminder for myself.

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I have that episode of American Justice on DVD. I also have a half hour version that has a clip from the 1993 press conference Caril held in regards to the making of Murder In The Heartland (the one hour version tat was released on DVD didn't have the press conference). And since it's about that time of the year (anniversary of the killing spree), the Lincoln Star has a special section devoted to the 50th Anniversary. Lots of stories, and pics I've never seen (including the first color pic I've ever seen of Charlie).

http://www.journalstar.com/special_reports/starkweather/


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Thanks for the link, I made it clickable...

http://www.journalstar.com/special_reports/starkweather/

As for the episode of American Justice, I have it on VHS around here, but it's showing it's age, so I'm gonna re-record it now that I have a DVD recorder.

The 1/2 hour version, are you talking about the one that was on the History Channel? It was called History's Crimes and Trials, and yeah, it has Caril's press conference.



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WOW!!


There's going to be a new book!! The title will be The 12th Victim...


http://www.journalstar.com/articles/2008/01/21/special_reports/starkwe ather/doc479285f447b65652842053.txt



Fugate always had dreamed of becoming a nurse and was a medical technician in a hospital for nearly 20 years before recently retiring, according to her friend Linda Maria Battisti, a Cleveland lawyer who is co-writing a book she says will prove Fugate's innocence.


And this...


"My feeling is that people in Lincoln don't want to accept that she may be innocent," says Battisti, whose partner in the writing of the book, "The 12th Victim," is Lincoln attorney John Stevens Berry.





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Halfblood, the link you gave say "Page Not Found." They moved the info here http://journalstar.com/articles/2008/01/21/special_reports/starkweathe r/doc479285f447b65652842053.txt

I was curious as to what happened with Caril. The last I read she was reclusive and didn't want to have kids because she didn't want to have to explain to them what happened and didn't want them to live that tragic legacy. I was surprised to read she finally married.

From what I've read so far it looks like her innocence or guilt will always be debated no matter what.

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Thanks for that link. That's an amazing retrospective, so much detail. I'm reading thru it all now. I don't know why this case intrigues me so much. I can't wait to watch the American Justice special tomorrow.

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It's on here where I live now.

I'm watching it and recording it.

Interesting,this case has intrigued me for some time too.

I want to read that new book I posted above that's being written.







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I taped it and finally got around to watching it yesterday. It was similar to another documentary I saw. I find it funny how so many people's opinion of Caril Ann is that she actively participated in the murders when there's no proof of that. Opinions of her guilt seems based on superficial things like if she wasn't guilty she would have ran, she didn't look remorseful enough and worst of all is people taking Charlie's word for it. A man who shot his victims in the back of the head then called it self defense, not to mention the fact that he changed his stories several times.

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SERIOUSLY!

How is killing a toddler self defense?!?!

Charlie was PO'ed because he felt Caril betrayed him, after that all bets were off.





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Found this...


http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10198228

Merle Collison is buried at Mount Olivet Cemetery in Great Falls.


A Musical? WTF?????????


http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10195259








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Thanks for that very interesting article. I liked hearing different people's take on it.

New York playwright Kyle Jarrow, whose musical "Love Kills" is based on the Starkweather case, said his rage and violence resonate today.

They make musicals out of anything these days. I remember when musicals were all cheerful and happy.

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Yep. Found that little tidbit lately. One year I need to go to Montana and take an extra trip. I'm planning another trip to Lincoln in June. I'll be taking some more pics too.

As for the debate with Caril, I think Tim Roth said it best: "when you watch your boyfriend blow someone's head off with a shotgun, you do what the guy with the shotgun tells you to do".

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Yeah I think there are pros and cons as Caril could have escaped and gone to the police. But also that if she felt her life was threatened and felt Charlie would kill her. She would have no other choice.
But it seems that she did kill at least one or two of the victims.

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[deleted]

Who would that be? I keep hearing "oh she was involved", "oh she killed some of the people", but who? I keep hearing about evidence, but none has ever been presented.

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Ninette Beaver was the reporter for the local Lincoln televisions station that broke the story and covered it, often being featured on national (network) news reports. She later wrote a book on the case called "Caril."

That is the most historically accurate of the books out there and is very much like this movie. Here is a link to Amazon.com's list of used copies. It's out of print, unfortunately:

http://tinyurl.com/6orbyr

If the tiny URL link doesn't work, and I don't know when or if they expire, try looking up Ninette Beaver Caril on Amazon and you'll find the same thing.

But Ninette Beaver followed the case from beginning to end and far beyond. She, like most reporters who stayed with the story, concluded that Caril Ann Fugate was not guilty. Her attorney, John McArthur, likewise felt she was not guilty of any of the crimes. In fact, upon his death, McArthur's son James continued to fight for Caril's freedom.

Not to belabor the point, but Fugatewas convicted of one murder - and not specifically convicted of shooting that person. That would be Robert Jensen of Bennett, Nebraska, which is just south of Lincoln. If one confesses to a robbery which results in murder, that person is legally culpable of the murder. But in this case, there were some circumstances that change the situation entirely:

(1) Fugate had witnessed the "first" murder committed by Starkweather "up close and personal" just hours before the robbery of Jensen and his girlfriend Carol King. By "first," I mean if was the first one Fugate knew about, the shooting of Starkweather family friend and rural farmer Gus Meyer. Her family (mother, baby sister, stepfather) had already been killed six days earlier, and Starkweather had killed the previous December in a gas station holdup. But Fugate knew none of that and was in shock when Starkweather pointed a gun at Jensen and King in a carjacking.

(2) Having just witnessed the shooting of Meyer, Fugate was terrified when Starkweather confronted the two teenagers from Bennett. She "went along" with the robbery only in the hopes that if Starkweather got the car and the little money Jensen had (I think about $4), King and Jensen would not be killed.

(3) The only reason police could prosecute Fugate for the Jensen shooting was because she confessed to it. Basically, she told the truth. She didn't want to rob or kill anybody, but the robbery was a sure thing. So she pushed the two teenage robbery victims to get out of the car fast and leave the money so Starkweather couldn't kill them. That's robbery in the strict sense, of course. But it's also not voluntary and not committed with intent.

(4) Fugate remained in the car when Starkweather followed the Bennett teenagers into an underground storm cellar where he shot Jensen and then, after an attempted rape of King, shot her, too. King was not just shot, she was also sexually mutilated - the signature of a perverse and angry male, not of a female or a male acting with a female accomplice.

There are a hundred other reasons to think that Fugate had no foreknowledge of any of the crimes and that she made at least two very serious but unsuccessful attempts to run from Starkweather during the murder spree. In fact, she did finally succeed in getting away from him right after the last killing - the Montana salesman shot in his car on a Wyoming highway. That's how the chase ended. Fugate saw a deputy sheriff's car and bolted from Starkweather's - hysterically screaming that it was "him," the shooter they were looking for.

I do not for a minute believe that Fugate had any criminal intent. Like Beaver and the McArthurs (and numerous reporters who covered the story), I believe she was wrongly convicted.

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THANK YOU!!

I couldn't have said it better! I agree!

I always thought that the attack on Carol King was the sign of a sexual assault by a male, NOT a jealous female.

Caril was scared out of her mind, and showed signs of Stockholm Syndrome.

Remember the Elizabeth Smart case? She was the same age as Caril.

I need to find that book by Ninette Beaver.





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As her lawyer says, she was just a child and was very scared. I'm not saying what she did was right, but i can understand it. I also don't think she had anything to do with the murders.

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[deleted]

Caril may have killed more than one person. Despite Charlie saying so. Or what we are letting on to be.

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Jeez, go back and read Diddly Squat's post. Charlie first claimed Caril had no part of the killing spree, until she turned on him. After that he changed his story. In fact, he changed his story several times. Charlie was also known to be a compulsive liar, yet people believe him, and no one will bellieve Caril, who btw, has maintained the same story since January 1958.

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Karla Homolka was a totally different case. She was an active participant in the murders her husband committed. Go read Diddly Squat's post, there's no evidence Caril Ann Fugate killed anyone.

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You know your stuff. Two things, I have heard many times that John McArthur's son took over Caril's case after he died. Problem is that John McArthur died in 1986 and Caril was free for 10 years. My guess would be that his son took over the case after he retired. As for Mr. Meyer, Murder In The Heartland called him Gus, but everyone that knew him said he never went by that name, he always went by August.

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I created a thread before saying there would be 2 new books on the case. The one is already out.





1. Pro Bono: The 18-Year Defense of Caril Ann Fugate


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1479108375/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_3?ie=U TF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER


This is by John McArthur's grandson, Jeff McArthur


and...



2. The Twelfth Victim: The Innocence of Caril Fugate in the Starkweather Murder Rampage


This is by Linda M. Battisti, and John Stevens Berry



http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1938803655/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_2?ie=U TF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER


Haven't ordered Pro Bono yet, and the other one isn't due out until June 1st.

They look interesting, though.



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