I bet Gayle would never forgive herself for Diana's death. She disowned her for dropping the assault charges against AJ and arguing with her. If she hadn't done that, Diana never would have gone back to AJ. Ouch! That really sucks!
shareActually, Diana had made the decision to go back to AJ already, before Gayle told her that she would not be welcome back if she went back to the skany jobless boyfriend that had beaten her. Diana acted hateful towards the mother that loved her and cared about her because she would rather be a whore than live a decent life.
shareAfter AJ murdered Diana, I know Gayle probably would never forgive herself for telling Diana she wouldn't be welcome back if she went back to AJ. If Gayle hadn't told Diana she wouldn't be welcome back if she went back to AJ, he wouldn't have killed her.
shareWas it ever proven that AJ murdered Diana? It could have been one of the sleazy johns that she was servicing. That's just one of the hazards a person faces when they choose to do that.
Even so, if he wanted to kill her, I doubt it would have mattered if Gayle was willing to take her back or not. It really didn't matter much to Diana either, her choice was very clear.
Diana shouldn't have forgiven AJ for beating her up.
shareNo, she should not have done that. But she not only forgave him, she got right back on the streets screwing sleazy guys for cash to bring home to her sleazy pimp.
shareAJ was a mean old man.
shareAnd Diana loved and adored him. (Was he old? I thought he was in his early twenties.)
No matter how someone want to spin it, ultimately, the person responsible for what happened to Diana was Diana.
He was in his early twenties and what I meant to say was AJ was a mean man. Gayle would probably never forgive herself for Diana's death. I know I would never forgive myself if I kicked my daughter out of the house and she turned up dead.
shareGayle should not feel that way. Gayle did not kick Diana out, Diana chose to leave the house to be a whore to a skanky pimp.
shareI know that Diana decided to go back to AJ and that she argued with Gayle about it but Gayle didn't have to tell Diana that she wouldn't be welcomed back if she went back to AJ though.
shareGayle probably just felt that there was nothing more she could do at that point. Truthfully, if I was Gayle, I would have changed the locks on the house too, especially after finding out Diana sank so low as to be a whore. If she would do that, I am sure she would have robbed her own mother if her skanky pimp boyfriend told her to.
shareI agree with what Gayle told April's mother in the end of the movie, Just never give up on her becuase then she'll give up on herself and it's all over. Don't drive her away like Gayle did.
shareUnfortunately, you could not have him thrown in jail because he asked her to forgive him. And Diana dropped the charges, so nothing could be done to him. No matter what, the fault for what happened to Diana lays on Diana. She had her choices, she made her choices.
shareI'm not talking about whose choices they were. I'm just saying that I agree with what Gayle told April's mother at the end of the movie. Don't drive her away like Gayle did. Never give up on her because then she'll give up on herself and it's all over.
shareThe difference is, April wanted to get out of that life. Diana wanted to be with AJ, no matter what. Even if it meant staying in that life.
shareYou saw how AJ treated Diana. How he pushed her around.
shareYep. And I saw how she ran right back to him and worshiped him. And treated the mother that cared about her and loved her like crap.
shareShe and her mother were just arguing and when you said that the person responsible for what happened to Diana was Diana, it's not true, but she would have been responsible for what happened to her if she committed suicide which she didn't do. And besides what about how AJ treated Diana?
shareBut it's AJ's fault for abusing Diana and the fault for what happened to Diana would lay on Diana if she committed suicide but she didn't and the choices she had and made were just mistakes.
shareThe choices she made were her own doing. So she still is responsible for her own fate.
shareWho in the movie said anything about her being responsible for her own fate?
shareNobody in the movie. But anyone with a brain can figure it out.
1) She had a choice about being a whore - be a whore, or go home to her family that cared about her.
2) She acted vile to her family.
3) After AJ beat her up, she got away from him, but then chose to go back to her family. Who took her back even after the hateful way she acted.
4) She then chose to go back to AJ (her pimp) and once again acted hateful to her mother.
How is anyone but Diana responsible for those decisions, that Diana made?
And as I said in another post, I was 18 once. And even then, I would never have lowered myself to be with a skank like AJ (have you seen a picture of him, the real guy?)and I certainly would not have gone so low as to be a whore, for anyone.
She wasn't vile to her family in the beginning before she and AJ met, right?
shareTrue. But once she was with him, she was vile to them (decent, working people) because she preferred to be with a jobless skank. He did not make her act like that towards them, she did that on her own.
shareHow could she want to be with someone who abuses her?
shareDesperation maybe? Anyway, it doesn't matter. She chose to stay with him.
shareGayle's reaction to Diana's death just ripped my heart out.
shareBut abuse does matter and it's A.J.'s fault for abusing Diana and the choices that Diana made aren't more important than the abuse AJ was giving her and I find your saying that Diana is responsible for her own death impossible to believe.
shareDiana's death was not her fault. She did not disown her. When people are angry they say things like that, but it does not mean she meant it for life. I hope you don't always blame parents for their child's death.
Clark's destiny = Superman, Lex Luthor & Lois Lane.
No and besides it's AJ's fault for abusing Diana.
shareDiana is the main one to blame for her own death. The real AJ was a complete skank, and Diana chose to be with him and turn completely against her mother to do so. Even after he forced her her to be a whore and beat her, she still chose him over a mother (and family) that loved and cared about her.
shareI still don't believe she was responsible for her own death. The choices she made aren't more important than the abuse AJ was giving her. Besides, StormAngel, why do you twist everything I say about this movie?
shareWhat have I twisted? All I have done was state the facts. Diana chose to disown a family that loved her. Diana chose to be with a skanky pimp who was abusing her. Diana chose to be a whore so she could be with the skanky pimp who was abusing her. Even with the abuse, she chose a skank over her decent family.
There is no proof AJ personally killed her. It could have been one of the skanks she was *beep* to earn money for her skanky pimp boyfriend.
BTW, I was responding to simba122504.
Well, I take this movie seriously, in fact, I take all abuse movies seriously and besides, StormAngel, I hope the facts you stated don't mean Diana deserved what happened to her, do they?
share(Name chance)
I do take abuse seriously too. I also take personal responsibility seriously.
Does any woman "deserve" abuse? No. But, if she knowingly and willingly stays with an abuser, then whatever happens to her is a least partially her own fault.
It's not like Diana had no alternatives.
Gayle's reaction to Diana's death just ripped my heart out and you know, Meankitty86, you and simba122504, you're both right about Diana's death not being Gayle's fault. She didn't kill her, AJ did and even at Diana's funeral, he acted like he had no part in it.
shareHow do you know AJ was the one who killed her? It could just as easily been one of her "clients" who killed her. Being killed on the job is one of the well-known hazards of being a whore.
And if it was a client, you cannot say it was only AJ's fault. Diana could have said no and went home and tried to be a decent person.
[deleted]
Because he abused her and abuse often leads to murder and just because it could have been a client, that doesn't mean AJ couldn't have had any part in it, does it?
And when AJ showed up at Diana's funeral, he pretended he had no part in it even though Gayle knew the truth (How? She just knew) and because of that, she got information from another one of AJ's prostitutes, April who was also a friend of Diana's from the strip club that Diana once worked at so she can capture AJ for his part in Diana's death.
.
I am curious.
If a person owns a pizza place hires a delivery driver, and while making a delivery, that driver is killed, is the owner the one to blame even if he had no way of knowing the caller planned to do that? Or just the person who killed the driver?
Well, Charlie, the strip club owner said that AJ once told him he'd kill Diana if she ever left him and Diana's friend April found Diana's driver's license in AJ's stuff, right?
shareIt doesn't mean anything. As her mother was reading Diana's diary, all Diana wrote was how much she loved AJ (notice nothing about missing her family). Yes, she mentioned some of the stuff he wanted her to do being "hard" for her. But the (legitimate) job I work at, a lot of times it is "hard" to do. Bottom line is I choose to keep doing the work, Diana chose to keep being a whore.
And again, who is to blame if the pizza store owner sends out a driver to a customer (who gave no clue he intended to kill the driver) and the driver is killed?
If they don't mean anything, why would AJ come to Diana's funeral and why would he have her driver's license since the time of her death?
And would AJ have told Mrs. Moffitt something like, "Look, Mrs. Moffitt, no matter what you think, I did not kill your daughter. I loved Diana. I wanted to make it work, we wanted to get back together." and "You've destroyed my life, getting me arrested the oter night and turning all my girls against me. You've done everything you can to punish me for something I didn't do."?
Mrs. Moffitt alreadu had her mind made up. She wanted to believe her daughter was an innocent angel who had no control over her own destiny, so no matter what AJ said, to the mother, he "killed" her daughter. I think she even said something like "even if not by his own hand he killed her". And something like "he took her into a world she never would have known". she would not accept that her daughter was not "taken", her daughter was given choices and made decisions to be in that world.
Honestly, I do not know if he killed her or not. But to say that he was responsible, even if someone else did it (and he did not pay them to)is wrong.
[deleted]
When Mrs. Moffitt said those things, do you think AJ would have called her a liar even say that Diana's friend, April and Charlie, the strip club owner and everyone else's testimonies are lies too?
shareDid he testify at his own trial? I don't think the movie ever showed the trial, only showed a summary.
share[deleted]
[deleted]
[deleted]
In the part where they were in court and before it was in session, what would have happened if AJ accused Mrs. Moffitt of destroying his life by getting him arrested the other night and turning all of his prostitutes including Diana's friend, April against him and doing everything she can to punish him for something he says he didn't do?
shareMost likely, nothing. Mrs. Moffitt's mind was made up. According to her, her precious (whore) daughter had no control over her own decisions and destiny.
share[deleted]
Mrs. Moffitt's grief began when her daughter, Diana was found dead and AJ's grief was just beginning when Mrs. Moffitt was trying to land him in prison.
shareYes, trying to land him in prison because she was feeling vindictive over her daughter's decision to be a whore to a skanky pimp.
Mrs. Moffit's grief actually began when her daughter decided to act hatefully towards her for caring about her and not wanting her to be with a low-life. But Diana just wanted to sink as low as possible.
She was just arguing with her and besides, how is arguing with her acting hatefully towards her?
shareShe pretty much told her parents she did not want them in her life when they went to speak to her about lying to them about where she was living.
And when her mother took her back and then Diana decided to go back to AJ, she was very hostile towards her mother just for being asked where she was all night.
Mrs. Moffitt didn't want Diana to be with AJ because she didn't like AJ and knew that he was bad news and he did turn out to be.
shareAnd Diana was mean and nasty to her mother because of it. She wanted to be with a skank and chose to be a whore to the skank.
share[deleted]
[deleted]
Sometimes teenagers act that way towards their parents. And what about AJ being mean and nasty to Diana?
shareyes, but Diana chose to move out and disown her family.
And when AJ was mean and nasty to her, she chose to be with him anyway instead of leaving him. she could have said, "Look, I come from a family who works legitimate jobs. I am not going to be a skanky whore and *beep* men i don't even know to make money for you, I am a better person than that."
Instead, she said, "I don't like doing that, but my skanky pimp boyfriend will dump me and send me back to my decent hard-working mother if I don't. So bring on the strangers, I'll do anything for my skanky boyfriend."
AJ wasn't just skanky, he was also abusive and he abused Diana and he abused her friend, April too.
shareYes, and Diana decided that she would rather be with him than a family that loved her and would never treat her that way.
The bottom line is the way AJ treated her was wrong, but Diana chose to accept it anyway.
[deleted]
And in the court scene before it was in session, what would have happened if Mrs. Moffitt said to AJ, "You took my daughter's future. I want yours. If I can't have your life, I can take away your freedom to live it."?
shareAgain, nothing much. Gail Moffitt had her mind made up.
shareAnd in court when Mrs Moffitt said, "Even if not by his own hands, he did kill her." and "He took her into a world she never would have known." what would have happened when AJ jumped from his seat saying, "That is a lie! The whole thing is a lie! She threatened me! She threatened me from the start! She threatened me! She's jealous because Diana loved me and not her! You are a darn liar!"?
shareHe probably would have had contempt of court added to the charges for speaking out of turn like that.
share[deleted]
[deleted]
[deleted]
Since you said that Mrs. Moffitt's mind was made up, there were a number of things she might do to AJ. And MeanKitty86, tell me something about AJ. Was it denial or deception that guides his life?
share[deleted]
I think Mrs. Moffit's point was that her daughter would not have been dragged into the life had it not been for A.J. It's also quite common for pimps to keep the id/drivers licenses of "their girls". It prevents them trying to leave.
Whether he killed Diana by direct hand or not, he was somewhat culpable for her death. And the fact was, he wasn't convicted of Diana's murder, he was convicted of pandering- quite a different sentence.
I put the fun in dysfunction!
It still came down to it being Diana's decision. She had a chance to get away when she was arrested, but gave the cop attitude for offering help.
Them she was away from him and back with her family. So it's not like she had no way out. She was out. But she then chose to go back to him, and back to that life. She chose her own fate.
Also at the court scene if it had showed AJ tesifying, what would have happened if the prosecuting attorney said to AJ, "So, Mr. Treece, you say that everything Sgt. Powell said on the stand is a lie?" and AJ said "That's right." and the prosecuting attorney said, "And Charlie, the strip club owner?" and AJ said, "Lied." and the prosecuting attorney said, "And another one of your prostitutes, April Hill who was also a friend of Diana's from Charlie's strip club?" and AJ said, "Lied. She also lied." and the prosecuting attorney said, "So you say that you're the only one in this courtroom who has been telling the truth?" and AJ said, "That's right." and the prosecuting attorney said, "They're all liars?" and AJ said, "They're all out to get me. She paid them. Ask her! Ask her!"?
shareWhen you said that Mrs. Moffitt had already made up her mind about Diana, that didn't mean she was lying about Diana, did it?
share[deleted]