MovieChat Forums > Menace II Society (1993) Discussion > Ilena's Pregnancy

Ilena's Pregnancy

posted 13 years ago by rlstokey
46 replies | jump to latest

According to the Allen Hughes' commentary on the Criterion Laserdisc , Ilena was not pregnant. The character was written as an opportunistic female who's purpose was to get abortion money out of Caine but actually make a profit. Allen said that he had her go "overboard" with the crying but the purpose of the scene was to show that she was a liar overall. This floored me because the performance was very believable especially the line "your man enough to take a life but not man enough to take care of one". Unlike the current special edition releases, the commentaries on the laserdisc are not edited together so I will have to get the opposite director's take on the scene next time. How many of you viewer's believed Ilena (like I did) or figured she was running game?

[–] KingSinister 13 years ago

I never believed her. Caine said "I had a jimmy hat on extra tight". Then she said "that don't mean nothin". Umm yea it does he was wearing a condom of course he didn't get u pregnant.

---
I want Monopoly money but I ain't even halfway there-DMX

[–] Evolution-X 13 years ago

The condom could have broke, you know?

All I need is one mic...

[–] blurayrankingsdotcom 13 years ago

Weird, I always thought she was being honest and the condom had broken or something. They should have added more to make it clear she was BSing him if that was how it was intended.

New Releases and Old Favorites!: blurayrankings.com

[–] rlstokey 13 years ago

I agree that more character development would have helped given the Hughes' purpose for the Ilena character. With the few scenes that involved her, Ilena didn't come off as some coldblooded hoodrat out for a dollar. She even tried to stop her cousin from retaliating against Caine. I still have to listen to the second director's commentary.

[–] rlstokey 13 years ago

Finally listened to Albert's commentary and he expressed his disappointment in his "direction" of this scene saying it was too emotional. His commentary focused mainly on the technical aspects of the film and was very informative.

[–] stevesharief7-1 13 years ago

I agree with you...from what is shown in the film I tended to believe her pregnancy, which makes Caine a slightly less sympathetic character. Plus..it kinda seems like her cousin wouldn't have confronted and retaliated against Caine if this was just a scam...

"Never underestimate the power of denial", American Beauty

[–] ladyjay0786 11 years ago

Plus..it kinda seems like her cousin wouldn't have confronted and retaliated against Caine if this was just a scam...

The cousin retaliated because Caine attacked him. Had Caine not attack him, I don't think he would have come back at Caine the way he did(the drive by shooting).

[–] eddiewinehosen 10 years ago

I always thought she wasn't talking BS about being pregnant. Now that I know that was the directors vision of her I imagine she might have tried to stop her cousin from retaliating because she was lying and didn't want anyone getting killed over her lie.

[–] brianpierce32 8 years ago

That's the point you are right if she would've told her cousin to do it I would've believed it but she told him not to go.

[–] fiatlux-1 13 years ago

I agree. They should have added more dialog. Ilena came off as at least being truthful about the pregnancy. Even the scene where they show her saying "Caine...I'm pregnant." she is almost crying. If she had been lying, why have that kind of expression?
As to how she got pregnant if he used a condom, I figured they fooled around before actual sex, and she got pregnant that way from pre-ejaculate. They used to warn us about that in high school in health class.

"I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus."
"Didn't he discover America?"
"Penfold, shush."

[–] Mandingo609 10 years ago

A dude usually knows if the condom broke before he takes it off. You never used one before?

[–] fiatlux-1 10 years ago

What??
I never said anything about a broken condom. Neither did Caine or Illena.

I said that if it was indeed Caine's baby, he got her pregnant from pre-ejaculate.

I even had a girlfriend who thought this same thing: that if the man pulled out before ejaculation, she couldn't get pregnant!

And if one wants to get REALLY technical, a man can impregnate a woman from the outside from pre-ejaculate also.

"I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus."
"Didn't he discover America?"
"Penfold, shush."

[–] Mandingo609 10 years ago

It's funny how you skipped over the 'I had the Jimmy on Extra tight' line. Pre-Ejac and regular nutting are the same, you know. They both can happen inside a condom. You don't get laid much, do you?

[–] fiatlux-1 10 years ago

Um I'm still not following your sequence of conversation, sorry.
I'm sure both can happen inside a condom. What does that have to do with this?
Caine never said he had the condom on the ENTIRE time. He never once said that.

We're talking about a reckless, somewhat dim teenage boy & an equally dim teenage girl playing blame-games with each other.
Caine wasn't known for his smarts, now was he.

And for the record, pre-ejaculate & ejaculate are not the 'same'. One can occur from the moment of erection while the latter does not.

"I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus."
"Didn't he discover America?"
"Penfold, shush."

[–] Mandingo609 10 years ago

You're speaking Semantics (Look it up). I'm going by what I've seen in the film. Unless you have some unseen footage I don't know about, you make absolutely no sense.

[–] megameme (370) 7 years ago

He would have noticed when he took it off. Only an idiot wouldn't catch something like that.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] aag12345-1 13 years ago

I believe you that Hughes said that in the commentary, but there is NOTHING in the movie to imply that she's being anything but truthful about the pregnancy.

When Caine meets her in the parking lot and first puts the moves on her, it's all his doing and she's angry at first that he blocked her in. Then, we don't see enough of her to have an opinion of where she's coming from. The way it plays in the movie, she's just a plot device to create the conflict that gets Caine killed - when you're thinking instead that he's about to have problems from the guy he beat up at the party, or getting busted for the grocery store murder and the videotape.

I thought that was the point Hughes was trying to make, that when you're living that life in that neighborhood, the $hit that jumps up and gets you isn't even the things that you're expecting to. I'm not sure how having Ilena scamming would improve the story, though it would show another facet of "the life", and emphasize even more the theme that Caine was being killed over some bull$hit. The way it plays now, you do feel he has some responsibility for blowing off the girl he got pregnant.

"Boy that was really exciting. I bet you're a big Lee Marvin fan aren't ya."

[–] lpt0127 12 years ago

Caine said "I had a jimmy hat on extra tight".

uhhhh what does this line even mean..? he wore an extra small rubber on his magnum sized dong? he tied it off at the base with a draw-string..?

[–] shydmplez 12 years ago

I would just like to know how she explained to her child that their cousin killed their father.

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] ow-3 12 years ago

I always assumed she was telling the truth.. hell she was bad tho. I'm sure Caine wasn't the only one hittin it.

[–] PurpleLemonadeDinosaur 12 years ago

I do kind of find her pregnancy iffy. What would be the point of getting Cain killed? How would she explained that to her child? "Oh, your father was killed by some guys I knew because he wouldn't claim you as a child." It would be very unsettling, so I don't think she had any intentions of getting him killed. She could have been lying, but they didn't give us enough reason as to why she would.

Rap is not pop. If you call it that, then stop.

[–] brianpierce32 8 years ago

Lmfatfo

[–] Karneda92 12 years ago

so in other words she had sex with just do get money, so why didn't she become a PROSTITUTE

"The stuff that dreams are made of."

[–] lornamd-1 11 years ago

I agree it never even occured to me that she was lying about being pregnant. Even if he wore a condom they aren't 100% effective.

[–] fiatlux-1 11 years ago

I agree it never even occured to me that she was lying about being pregnant. Even if he wore a condom they aren't 100% effective.

I agree. Especially if they fooled around before he put the condom on.

"I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus."
"Didn't he discover America?"
"Penfold, shush."

[–] RobSac 11 years ago

The fact that she goes right to her gangster cousin for retaliation shows her level of class. Those bullets killed a guy who wasn't even in a gang, and who dedicated his life to getting Caine's crew to stop banging, and they also came within an inch of killing a small child. That girl was trash.

[–] Milkdoesabodygood 11 years ago

That girl needs to get sent to the Middle East, tell her it's a free trip, just a pit stop at Sadi Arabia and leave her there, yep yep.

[–] SteelCitysFinest417 9 years ago

Remember she pleaded with her cousin to not retaliate right before the cousin goes after Caine.

    

[–] ow-3 8 years ago

In the scene where she tried to stop her cousin from "doing something crazy" she went to embrace/hug him in a way that made it seemed like he was her boyfriend or something. It was weird for like 2 seconds.

[–] everydayboredom1980 11 years ago

Interesting.

I never thought she was lying. The way they filmed the scene, she looks worried and down. She's in a robe, she doesn't have any lights on which adds to the "sad" effect of the scene.

I mean I guess they didn't want to make it over-the-top, like say the movie Friday when Cube's girl is accusing him of cheating when she's the one in bed with a guy next to her.....but it seemed like the way the filmed the scene where Ilena calls Caine, that she's telling the truth.

[–] protocolglide 11 years ago

Based on what we saw, I don't think there is enough evidence to say she was lying about it.

[–] its_heather_ok 11 years ago

It seems as if most people missed the scene where Sharif told Caine he hoped he wore a condom because he knew several dudes that had been with Ilena. Yet Ilena told Caine that he was the only one she had been with. I think that was supposed to show that she was a liar.

[–] ladyjay0786 11 years ago

It seems as if most people missed the scene where Sharif told Caine he hoped he wore a condom because he knew several dudes that had been with Ilena. Yet Ilena told Caine that he was the only one she had been with. I think that was supposed to show that she was a liar.

I actually must have missed that scene. Well then it all makes sense now that she was lying. I mean I always thought like someone else mentioned that her pregnancy was iffy. I never thought she wasn't pregnant. I just thought if she was, it wasn't Caine's and that she was just pinning it on him for some odd reason.

[–] Milkdoesabodygood 11 years ago

Makes sense now, that's why he didn't go for it, hum.

Please remember to ensure all your postings are made in compliance with our terms and conditions. Please pay particular attention to the rules in section #2 and the punishments in section #3. In the event of a violation, IMDb may remove your entire posting history, not only the messages which are specifically in violation and your account may be permanently blocked from posting.

Ah shut up!

[–] Frankc_ca 11 years ago

I remember that scene, but he doesn't name her nor does he specifically point out that she might claim pregnancy to cheat him out of money.

Sharif does say something like, "I know a few brothers who have been caught out like that". That could mean anything. I always assumed it meant an unwanted pregnancy.

The way the movie was shot it more makes it look like he knocked her up and is leaving town like so many lousy men before him. If they spent another minute or two elaborating on that or even have her say something that catches her out in a more obvious way then it would have made her a liar than it would have played better.

[–] megameme (370) 7 years ago

no sharif says I hope you wore a hat, I know a few brothers who eased up in that...in other words Sharif knew some guys who slept with her also. Unless you think Sharif is lying.