MovieChat Forums > Falling Down (1993) Discussion > Should D-Fens be given a medal for "taki...

Should D-Fens be given a medal for "taking out the trash"


Look, I get it; Family Court is utterly screwed up and the wife is usually viewed as some innocent while the fault is "the man" for whatever stupid reasons...

But it is surprising that people actually go so far as to try to exonerate D-FENS for his crimes.

He goes to the Korean's corner shop, asking for change; and the guy is a dick and refuses unless he buys something. He tries to buy something and the guy charges him so much that he cannot get a phonecall from the "change".

Option 1) Give the guy $2, ask for 4 quarters and 15 cents
Option 2) Leave the store, taking your money to a place that actually wants it
Option 3) Speak agitatedly at the store owner until said owner feels you are a threat and escalates to violence.

Does option 3 happen to people now and again? Yes... but only when he got so out of control that people feared for their life did it actually "resolve" the conflict.

What the film does is not give him "justifiable triggers", but to highlight how we self rationalize that these triggers are "justifiable" and that he was just having a bad day. Most of you focus on the extremely visible physical violence while ignoring the much more subtle and witty verbal aggression.

Take the scene with the gang members; they're cornering him stating how how he "cannot read" the meaningless graffiti in the same way that a white man would come out saying "Can't you read, the sign says no trespassing, Mexican scum!" and his response was "Well, I'm sorry, but I still cannot read your language, why don't you learn mine." He threw their racism to white people back at them with the racism they've come to expect from white people.

People may cheer about him talking back about not getting breakfast, or telling a panhandler to shove off, even complaining about how roads get closed for seemingly no reason... but each and every one of these are AGGRESSIVE actions that prelude the violence; not cause it really.


When he meets the aggressive golfer, he could very well move out of his swing, instead he instigates the golfer (who is already a dick) into taking a potshot at him.

Option 1) He could start heading to the other side of the course, out of the golfer's way.
Option 2) He could speak to the less aggressive friend about anything other than his friend's behavior.
Option 3) He could insult golf, insult the golfer, and tick the guy who paid money to be there off while he is clearly trespassing (it seems the gang members were right, he cannot read!)... then pull out a shotgun to show them who is the REAL man!


It is interesting to note is that throughout the film, he clearly demonstrates a controlling personality. The problem is that while this cold, calculating, always in control character seems to be the most masculine role model you can create; it is actually a hint at him being a sociopath. Do understand that sociopath has some extremely incorrect slang attached to it, but the principle characteristic of lacking, or having diminished, empathy for others is quite key here.

He is holding a shotgun and the hand of one of the father's daughters; the father is doing his best to protect his family, the wife is terrified... and he says "Oh, I hurt you, I didn't mean to hurt you" as if the girl would care about a little bit of blood when a guy with a huge gun is standing next to her and her father with everyone looking terrified.

In fact, if you watch closely, he clearly has to THINK about why someone would be scared of him; and then he says "oh, I won't hurt your family, I have a family of my own! Why don't you believe me!"

reply

We also see the controlling personality in the home video. His personality was probably a major factor in busting up the marriage. He lacks insight into his own character and appears not to comprehend how he could look like a threat to other people, even while ranting and pulling out guns and sometimes firing them. On the golf course the less dick-headed of the players notices something threatening about D-Fens when he is still about 100 yards away. By this time he is wearing army-style fatigues he picked up at Nick's place, of course. So he actually looks now like the vigilante Nick thought he was.

"Chicken soup - with a *beep* straw."

reply

[deleted]

I don't think D-Fens was justified in what he did -- but I most definitely can relate to and understand his frustration. And what's scary is that -- this was in the 90s when the economy was booming. Even in the early 90s recession things weren't THAT BAD in comparison to now.

Now you either have money, or frankly you don't....

D-Fens is a tragic hero character, like the Punisher of comic book lore.

Society made him along with the economy.

reply

I thought D-Fens was hilarious when I first saw this movie as a 13 year old but as an adult, I'm surprised how many adults empathize with or relate to his character. He isn't just a regular guy having a very bad day who snaps. He's mentally unstable from the get-go. His wife obviously has good reason to have a restraining order and the scene of him watching the video of his daughter's birthday is intended to imply that. He walks into a fast food joint, pulls out a gun, and terrorizes the customers, including children, and underpaid workers over not serving breakfast and the sloppy state of fast food sandwiches. It's a darkly funny scene in a movie but I'm surprised anyone could really say they relate to an unhinged nutcase with a strong sense of entitlement.

reply

You do know this film has a lot of dark comedy in it right? I don't have the link but Michael Douglas himself said it was dark comedy when he discussed it with a talk show host.
The part with the gang members was among the most hilarious scenes I have ever had the pleasure of viewing, especially when they try to get back at him and wind up wrecking their car. I don't care what their race was... they were in the wrong and finally picked on the wrong guy. Comedy gold. And you want to defend these thugs just because they're of a different race than he is? Even if he said something racist, which he did not, he has just as much right to walk through there as they do. I don't understand how society got to the point where people are defending criminals. I don't remember the movie being a hit, but I'm sure the audience in '93 appreciated it more than one from this backwards, ultra politically correct society.
The part with the panhandler I think many of us can relate to. How was he being aggressive here? You didn't cheer when he completely shut down somebody attempting to con him?
The part with the golf snobs was also quite hilarious. If memory serves, one hit a golf ball dangerously close to him. Yeah, I will agree that Douglas in this case was out of line intruding on their game, but the writers never set out to make him a saint. While it was hilarious to see in a movie, I of course did not agree with him pulling the gun in the fast-food joint, especially for something silly like them not having breakfast. But, again, that's the dark comedy aspect. So if you weren't laughing, perhaps this kind of movie is not for you.

reply

This is a great retort, scott...

While normal adults can't condone what Bill Foster did in this movie, there's a lot that most of us THINK about. However, I have noticed over time on IMDb that Bill becomes MORE of a criminal, not for what he "could" do to his family, or how Robert Duvall's character figures he "would", but more how we're supposed to sympathize with the scumbag Latino gang members who were a couple of pricks from the word "go". F that.... that's just pure PC flaccidity. Only a candyass would empathize with all of the "groups" attacked here.





You'll work on... "We were making too much money".

reply

There's a lot of good in these Posts mentioned and this Topic by the Original poster has been accurately touched on.

While I would otherwise sympathize with Bill Foster or De-Fens I also am perplexed how much he also put himself in such a predictament to begin with.

All U.S. Cities and especially such as NY, Chicago, LA and Miami have filth for Politicians and the climate of their politics and greed.

We can all agree that people should work to make a buck and deserve what they earn.

Bill Foster is mature enough to know you don't frolic all around Urban sprawl when your out of a job and not making income, unless in case, he had money from the job he was Fired or Let GO from.

The Gang member confrontation is going to happen when you are Looking for trouble. Bill Foster had no more business roaming the infested Bad areas of LA, anymore than the gang members.

He should never have started the fight with Nazi Nick in the Store and should have got a new job.

reply

I felt empathy for the Neo-Nazi. He wasn't at all my kind of guy but he did hide Bill from the cops when they were looking for him.

Bill should have played along with such a dangerous creature, he could of faked interest in the empty gas canister and just said thank you for the rocket launcher and then also bought a change of clothes.

In Bill's position, you are lucky to have even one person on your side.

reply

Do shut up!

reply