MovieChat Forums > Demolition Man (1993) Discussion > I don't understand Cocteau's plan

I don't understand Cocteau's plan


For someone who is supposed to be brilliant his plan sure seemed short sighted. If Cocteau wanted Friendly dead so that he can preserve the order and harmony of the society he created how is thawing countless violent criminals to take out one guy who used graffiti and only stole food. Let's say Phoenix did kill Friendly. What next? Everyone he released is 50x worse, have intel on everything in the city and trained in weaponry and military warfare. Seems like a terrible counter-intuitive plan.

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people in charge do stupid and terrible things.

His crimes are of pretension and hypocrisy. He pretends he is a good guy, but he is really a dictator. Everyone does what he says, but he's taking away freedoms.

San Angeles is probably more of a city state and probably isn't part of what was the US.

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Agreed. I’m wondering what the rest of America looks like here.

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Cocteau was mad. He had absolute power, because all of the people on the surface were clueless what to do. Ed Friendly was the only person who was a threat to him ( or so he thought).

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If they had thrown in a line about how Cocteau had included in Phoenix’s rehab program that Phoenix would kill himself once Friendly was dead, that would have at least made it appear Cocteau had thought his plan through. There could even have been a short debate between John Spartan and Huxley about whether or not they should just kill Friendly themselves to force Phoenix to kill himself. It might have been interesting to see how each of them felt about the “sacrifice one for the good of the many” argument. But as it is, Cocteau just seems incredibly foolish and naïve.

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If they had thrown in a line about how Cocteau had included in Phoenix’s rehab program that Phoenix would kill himself once Friendly was dead, that would have at least made it appear Cocteau had thought his plan through.


Maybe in a director's cut...

Another possibility is that since Phoenix *couldn't* kill Cocteau, perhaps he planned to kill Phoenix himself, although that would seem to go against his sensibilities.

Neither one of those scenarios would answer the question as to why Cocteau would allow more of Phoenix's associates defrosted as it didn't appear Cocteau had any direct influence on anyone's rehab program but Phoenix.

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Phoenix needed help to get Spartan. He gave Cocteau the names of the guys he wanted. Cocteau didn't have time to program the others and probably assumed his control over Phoenix was enough to keep the others in line. My question would be: Why didn't the others interpret Phoenix inability to kill Cocteau as weakness or gutlessness on his part?

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I guess. Still clunky writing. Phoenix was giving Sparton a run for his money, but he couldn't get Edgar Friendly without help which was the whole point? After Friendly was eliminated, then what would he do with Phoenix and his crew? I don't think his p-whipped police squad could get Phoenix et al to walk back into the freezer, unless there was an explanation I missed.

Why didn't the others interpret Phoenix inability to kill Cocteau as weakness or gutlessness on his part?


They didn't seem all that bright - perhaps they were unaware that Phoenix couldn't pull the trigger. I think they were only together with Cocteau that one time, and only for a few minutes before Phoenix tossed the weapon to one of his compatriots to smote Cocteau.

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Maybe he had other targets in mind for Phoenix to take care of after Friendly. Perhaps he had it programed that Phoenix would always need a Cocteau to give him someone new to stakeout and kill, and Cocteau would keep giving him the names of the new leaders of the underworld, or anyone else who was disrupting his perfect society. Phoenix would be like a shark, in that he always has to be hunting someone, or he would die.

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Stupid and poor as is the whole movie (in all fairness most Stallone flicks are).

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Someone had thoughts on a Cocteau novel. Maybe in the epilogue following him killed this could be restored at the cryo-prison when John Spartan fights Jesse Ventura's character (the one who killed Raymond Cocteau) after killing new members of Simon Phoenix's gang. It should be in the very end John Spartan defeating the Jesse Ventura character. Manly movie site said a running tackle.

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Also he never considered when releasing Phoenix's henchmen that he could get one of them to kill him (Cocteau). Which was obvious to anyone with even a double digit IQ.

Maaaybe you could say Cocteau thought he had an agreement with Phoenix but still it's dumb writing.

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It's a shame that Sir Humphrey is so clever and competent in Yes, Minister, but so awful and ridiculously cartoony and stupid here.

His plans make no sense, he really doesn't take advantage of his power to consolidate it and gain more power, or anything.

I guess the (feeble) point is that Friendly is 'intelligent rebel', whereas the thugs he thawed were just dumb thugs, easy to dispose of.

However, Cocteau didn't really make the kind of contingengy plans Sir Humphrey Appleby would definitely have. I would have LOVED if this movie properly utilized his talent and amazing capabilities to create a similar network of lies and corruption as shown in 'Yes, Minister'. That would've been absolutely exciting and brilliant.

Cocteau really made many stupid mistakes. I guess it's because villains have to be stupid, or movies can't happen (sigh).

What he COULD have done..

1) Gas the underground with, if not poison, at least some kind of hallucinogen, sleeping gas, some kind of drug that the underground people become addicted to, and thus, his slaves. Offer them free food that has some kind of addictive, memory erasing, hallucinogenic - - well, you can easily continue from here - - to the 'rebels', thus removing their reason for rebelling. Offer them free clothing and such.

I mean, if a big underground rebel group can happen, you are not doing it right. If Cocteau did this like Humphrey would do it, then it would be a SLOW, gradual, subtle change that not even Friendly could resist. Everything would be fine, just 'slightly' more restrictive each year (just like in our world.. uh,oh!)

2) Have the general public against the rebels. Paint them as something YOU can do something about, give all the 'citizens' free tazers and training to use them and so on. Run this kind of PSAs on TV all the time.

3) Give cops enough power and competence to be able to handle a group like this, and have them training specialized scouts to infiltrate those rebel groups and so on.

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4) Make sure that anyone you DO thaw (though Humphrey could take over the world without anyone thawed, too bad Cocteau is not even worthy of kissing Humphrey's shadow) is fully programmed to not be able to even THINK thoughts that would be against you in any way, and that they would be basically hypnotized to always obey you and feel EUPHORIA every time they obey your command. Common sense, isn't it?

5) Make sure that the whole 'I will get you with the next shot' can't ever even happen, Phoenix shouldn't be able to EVEN raise his gun enough to point at him. It's RIDICULOUSLY dangerous to let him get a tiny finger squeeze away from murdering you instantly! What? Why? HOW? Wouldn't _YOU_ want a "bit" more marginal here? Phoenix shouldn't be able to even hold a gun while thinking negative thoughts about you, he should feel sick, faint, headache, stomach ache, amnesia, etc. etc. Come on, why can't writers have imagination?

6) Why make someone not have anything to lose so he will be GUARANTEED to rebel against you, and then thaw a dangerous criminal with VERY feeble 'failsafe' programmed into him that can actually hack your whole house to obey him to kill that someone? This whole thing makes no sense.

Even if Phoenix succeeds, as someone said, 'now what'? But it's worse than just that. First, Friendly becomes a Martyr, and that can actually wake up people to think for themselves. They might read up on him and find out what was really going on. Why would you risk this by killing him? If you paint him as an evil guy in the eyes of the public, what's the worse he can ever do anyway? Let him live and enjoy your power.

Also, Friendly isn't a psychotic killer, Phoenix is. This is exactly like using wasps to kill your crop-eating bugs, so now wasps become even a worse problem, then you need to bring frogs to kill the wasps, then some catlike jungle beasts to kill the frogs, and so on and so forth. Cocteau's logic is EXACTLY like this.

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If Friendly is so hard to kill, how much harder would Phoenix be to kill? How do you get rid of him? Thaw even a tougher psycho and so on?

No, the whole thing makes no sense from the get-go. If he IS to thaw someone, Cocteau should make sure he's properly programmed..

1) Wouldn't even be ABLE TO think anything bad/negative/destructive/disobeying about Cocteau, and getting euphoria boost every time he obeys him, and super big fear, anxiety, depression and psychosis every time he even THINKS of thinking of disobeying him.

2) Desire, not just nagging reminder, but pure DESIRE to kill Friendly.

3) Like Manchurian Candidate, or the 'wrist watch' in 'Naked Gun: From the Files of Police Squad!', he would be - OF COURSE!!!! - programmed to kill himself IMMEDIATELY after Friendly is dead.

4) Lock/Prevent/Squish/Remove his selfish desires. Just psychologically prevent access to them. Phoenix can't dream of power, can't have agency, can't have selfish thoughts whatsoever, can't have self-preservation or anything you don't SPECIFICALLY want him to have.

5) He wouldn't have to roam free and go around looking for guns, killing cops and whatnot. Holy cow, WHY ALLOW THIS?!

He would follow his programming and come STRAIGHT to you, without having any need, urge or wish to do anything else, and not being able to even breathe without thinking about arriving at your place, first. It'd be like the biggest urge you have ever had, but psychological, and which doesn't get satisfied until you actually arrive at Cocteau's residence and listen to what he has to say.

6) _HE_ wouldn't have to try to find guns - YOU would damn well equip him. You are his boss, he's your pawn and slave, what the F are you doing letting him cause chaos in your 'perfect city' and show the public how incompetent your cops are? This makes no sense on SO MANY LEVELS, Humphrey would probably call this plan 'novel' and 'imaginative'.

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