MovieChat Forums > Best of the Best II (1993) Discussion > Could Tommy really have beaten Brakus?

Could Tommy really have beaten Brakus?

posted 11 years ago by creatorof2002
7 replies | jump to latest

How important is size and weight divisions? I would assume that Brakus would by the standards of MMA fighting be categorized as a SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT since in his prime Ralph Moeller, the actor weighed almost 290 and anything over 265 is a Super Heavyweight. Tommy Lee in the first film was described as being 167 pounds which would be welterweight unless he really buffed himself up to get to middleweight but because his weight was never mentioned in the 2nd movie I will go with his description in the first.

Can a welterweight ever beat a world class super heavyweight? Here is the link to the wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMA_weight_classes

According to that chart Brakus was FOUR weight divisions above Tommy Lee.

In his prime BRUCE LEE would have been either a featherweight or lightweight. I believe at his heaviest he was 148 and at his lightest he was in the low 140s. Even if we are generous and go with the higher weight Bruce Lee at his best would still be FIVE weight divisions below Brakus. If you had an alternate reality with Both Brakus and Bruce Lee both in their respective primes would Bruce be able to beat Brakus or would the extreme difference in size and strength be too much for him? Is there a point where size difference is so extreme that skill does not do any good?

In STREET FIGHTER THREE the largest character in all of the Street Fighter games Hugo Andore is described as being eight foot one and weighing 550 pounds. Could a Bruce Lee type person take on a fighter that big? being that Super Heavyweight means over 265 someone that big would be (I made this term up) an ULTRA heavyweight.

And would Bruce stand no chance against an AVATAR? In Avatar Jake was between 9 and 10 feet tall, since skill is supposed to be more important than size and strength if at the beginning when the Avatar was confused and he had not figured out the coordination yet had he had to fight a physical equivalent to an in his prime Bruce Lee who would win?

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] averagejoeman2013 11 years ago

In all reality...little chance. One can dominate another even if severely outweighed if they used a style that gave them an advantage over the larger opponent. For example, a good boxer would beat a good brawler. A good martial artist would beat a good boxer. A good grappler would beat a good martial artist. Although there are exceptions, its much like Rock, Scissors, paper. Most styles will have one that provides additional challenges to their own.

Brakus and Tommy were both martial artists. Tommy had the speed, but they were almost even so far as trading strikes. Compare the strength of a 170lb man and a 290 lb man, and the fight would not last long. There are exceptions but the chances are highly improbable. Let us not forget that Brakus had never lost and really did a number on not only Travis...but also Tommy's brother. Tommy stood the best chance but would probably get his neck snapped in under 5 minutes if he stayed away. For all the talk about Bruce Lee being the best ever, he was a great martial artist but probably not the best...only the best choreographed at the time.

"If Obama's policies worked... Chicago would be the safest city and Detroit would be the richest."

[–] taijiquan12 11 years ago

@ averagejoeman2013:

Bruce Lee might've done better than you thought, considering that he could easily move 300lb+ tackle bags with his side-kicks. He was insanely powerful for his small size, and had the acceleration and speed that could make up for his lack of mass.

As you mention, it would be improbable for a guy of his size to win, but not impossible, there would be exceptions, and if anyone, anyone ever was an exception, it was Bruce Lee. I also don't agree that he was the best ever, without a doubt, even in his own time I think there were other fighters who could've given him a run for his money, but if you took a 290lb fighter like Brakus, made him real (Brakus is fictional after all), and had him fight in the way he did in the film, then Bruce would've won. His techniques were slow, telegraphed, and he fought in very clear and obvious patterns. Bruce would've been able to defend himself long enough for Brakus to wear down, which he would faster considering his large size and Bruce Lee's legendary and insane cardio. Also consider that the colosieum is all about dirty techniques and complete no rules fighting.
I really do think that Bruce would use his superior footwork (Brakus had no movement, there are big guys who can actually move and Brakus ain't one of them) to avoid Brakus the whole time and then destroy him with a groin kick and break him down from there. It's a shame that Bruce never did fight any musclebound freaks like Brakus in his movies, and show how, in choreography, he would think the fight would go down, but that's what I think.

As for a man of Phillip Rhee's size, about 170lbs against 290, I think averagejoeman needs to look up early UFC, where there were no weight classes and few rules. Royce Gracie was roughly Phillip Rhee's build and size (and even less conditioned actually!) and managed to beat the massive Dan Severn, an established and strong wrestler who was at least 250lbs.

In this clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho2MUZBtAwM

You can see a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu fighter take out a bodybuilder 250lbs larger than him with leverage and control, so it can be done. Maybe not in the way presented in this movie, but if you're just talking about body types, it definitely can be done.

"Bulls**t MR.Han Man!!"--Jim Kelly in Enter the Dragon

[–] averagejoeman2013 11 years ago

Great post!!!!

I agree Bruce Lee was phenomenal and you pretty much got all the bases covered. The big question is, is Tommy Li equal to Bruce Lee? :)

And yes...Bruce Lee was overrated and would lose to most grapplers. If he evolved....who knows. But as it stood, a martial artist will lose to a grappler because the style is more effective in a practical sense.

"How's the steak?" "It was poisoned (argh)...and a little rare" (collapses).

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] PopperTheKungFu-Dragon 9 years ago

The big question is, is Tommy Li equal to Bruce Lee? :)

That's a good question, but Tommy Lee is fiction and Bruce Lee was real.

So lets put it this way: Is Tommy Lee equal to Lee (Bruce's character from Enter the Dragon) and the answer to that would be no (at least IMO)

Tommy Lee was very impressive, but I don't think he had the skill of Lee (and by extension, Bruce Lee).

Or you could go the other way and compare Phillip Rhee to Bruce Lee, which again I think gives us the same answer.

Of course, all this is just opinion based on what we see on screen. I can't say anything about real life.

Very good. But brick not hit back!

[–] PopperTheKungFu-Dragon 9 years ago

I agree. Great post taijiquan12.

That was a very nice breakdown.

Very good. But brick not hit back!