MovieChat Forums > Ba wang bie ji (1993) Discussion > When Douzi kept flubbing his line

When Douzi kept flubbing his line


When Douzi kept saying, "I am by nature a boy" instead of "I am by nature a girl" was this intentional or was he truly just messing up on the line repeatedly? I absolutely love this movie but that is one part that's not very clear to me. The first time I watched it, I felt certain that Douzi was intentionally flubbing the line because he didn't want to call himself a girl. Now that I've seen it a few more times and have read some of the older comments on this board, I am not so sure.

I think it's more realistic to think that he was flubbing the line intentionally than to think that he messed up THAT many times, even while being severely beaten for it..............but perhaps he really was that nervous and just couldn't nail the line. Someone help me out here- Perhaps someone who has read the book. What do you think? Intentional or just a mess up on Douzi's part?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Baba mi Ogun modupue

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Wow, I hadn't even considered the part about Shi Tou (I was thinking he finally just gave in after having his tooth pulled out) but you may be onto something. So, are you saying that Douzi was not willing to label himself a girl for the part, even after taking several beatings and risking losing the Opera gig but once he saw Shi Tou get angry, he finally gave in? That makes alot of sense to me, being that Shi Tou was his life's love. Now why didn't that dawn on me?

The first time I watched the film, the sense I got was that Douzi didn't want to label himself a girl and intentionally kept flubbing the line in an attempt to rebel his adrogynous role in the Opera. It seemed like he just wasn't willing to call himself a girl, even after several lashings. After the second and third viewing, I began to question it, though because it wasn't really clear whether or not he was intentionally messing up or he just couldn't seem to get it right. I think after that many ass whoopings, I would damn well say the line right............unless I was adamant that I was a "boy" and wouldn't give in. Perhaps that part of the film is up to your own interpretation but I like your take on it and think it's the most likely.

Thanks for the reply! This film, IMO, is the finest film ever made. I only wish I'd seen it sooner and could have kept up with Leslie Cheung's work when he was still alive. After learning that he died by his own hand in real life, the ending of this film became that much more bittersweet. It's almost painful to watch but you just can't turn away.

Baba mi Ogun modupue

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This is an important line in this movie. The original line is in ancient Chinese language. Given the extremely conservative social values endorsed at the time, homosexuality was outrageous to say the very least.

Douzi always said "I am... a boy" in his practice that he got really used to it. The moment he was made to change the line was the beginning of his crazy love and life in which he got so deep into the play and his roles that he couldn't realize any difference from the real world.

At the end of movie, Douzi made the "boy" mistake again after so many years. The director/writer was using it to illustrate the end of Douzi's dreamy life. Douzi finally "waked up" to realize that his love for Shi Tou won't work out. For one, he's not sure of the realness of his love or life. For another, Shi Tou doesn't really have the same kind of feeling.

But what else did Douzi have other than his dreamy life? He chose to die in the play because that was all he had. The play and Shi Tou were the whole meaning of his life. At that moment he just wanted to end his life with them. It had been a heck of a life for him but he felt happy to go crazy once again and "blur" the role/events in the play with his real life for the last time.

Somebody on the forum are asking why Douzi killed himself after so many years. I hope the above comments answered their questions. Additionally, they didn't have a chance to play the roles during the Revolution. Consider the trial to be their fist reunion on the stage.

The art and the reality are different, as we're told. It's considered crazy to mix them up. But Douzi achieved a high level of success and satisfaction in his crazy life. What's amazing in this movie is that Shi Tou always apposed Douzi's craziness and constantly reminded him not to mix the plays with the reality. But throughout the movie we realize that Shi Tou was just the same.

Again, what is reality? What are dreams? There's a lot to think about after watching this great movie.

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I also addressed the subject of why Douzi killed himself so many years later on that other thread.

Since posting this thread, I've watched the film several more times and gotten a better understanding as to why Douzi kept messing up the line. I have nothing but great things to say about this movie- It is the best I've ever seen. Even better than the book, IMO. Which do you prefer?

Baba mi Ogun modupue

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Homosexuality wasn't necessarily considered outrageous in traditional Chinese culture. In the historic period of the original opera, late Warring States era, homosexuality was quite normal, open and even fashionable, especially among the nobility and literate class. It wasn't egalitarian, respective sexual roles were expected, and sons were still expected to procreate and carry on the family name. It became less accepted when the culture became more conservative. but even by later dynasties, western missionaries were shocked by the openness of homosexuality in China. By the 1920's, it was probably even less accepted, due in part of western cultural influences. But even then, as portrayed in the film, crossdressing actors such as Douzi were very popular and often had numerous male suitors/patrons.
I don't consider this a gay film. To me, homosexuality/transgender is portrayed as unnatural and ultimately tragic.
Why did Douzi kill himself in the end? I think it was for the same reason the concubine in the opera killed herself.

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The king had fallen (the actor could not be the protector and male-archetype anymore to the concubine). This and the fall of the art in general led to the concubine's actions. Without her king (if he could not even pretend anymore to be his love), she took her exit.

I also think it's cutting how the line was repeated at the end. Douzi realizes he has been living an act this whole time - an act that was cut into him deeply when he was a boy - but an act all the same. Of sorts. He may have been gay even without that harsh conditioning. I truly believe that most gay people just fall into it naturally without and stark stimuli to "make" them gay. But in Douzi's case, he not only effectively chose his sexuality in a definite way, he chose a soulmate...his king. And when he had final proof that this dream, this opera of his chosen life was over - that his king was not, COULD not be his in the ways he wished...he left the play/dream...by reasserting that he was a boy. But this was basically a preparation for death, for leaving behind the only life he'd ever known. And so, the concubine must die.

Very sad.

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