MovieChat Forums > The Age of Innocence (1993) Discussion > I don't like May but I empathize with al...

I don't like May but I empathize with all of them

posted 9 years ago by daisystar
12 replies | jump to latest

I just see it as another story of conformists vs. rebels - people pick up these roles depending on how well their personality fit in with the then social rules and culture.

I don't like May. Throughout this movie I tried to pierce through her upclassy veils and find that authentic May, but never succeeded. Every time she seems to initiate an "open conversation" with Newland, it ends up being just another "let's make this work" *beep*

The moment I was mostly pissed off - Newland accused May of thinking Ellen would be happier returning to Europe(effectively condemining Ellen to hell), but May seemed not be able to grapple with what Newland meant, simply dismissing it in a airy-breezy way "oh she shoulnd't have married overseas in the firstplace". That scene reveals that May can be cruel in her own way - but she won't realize she's being cruel, just as she won't realize she's never free.

On the other hand, I can see why May seems so annoying in our modern eyes.She was brought up under a conventional society, and her own personality seems to fit quite well with that system. That system did not tolerate finding one's authetic self - and May did not need to, because all those social rituals are a personification of her authentic self, ie. living in an idealised world and shutting out "anomalies" - that's the most comfortable way she'd like to live. This explains why she consistently remains so throughout her life.

But May's version is not necessarily the most comfortable way for Newland and Ellen. Their freedom-loving personalities don't fit in with the rigid way of living in the 1870s. In that social context Newland and Ellen are not allowed to express and develop their authentic-selves, and they did not find a way to break out with the upclass clique -- too much social pressure and they are not up for it.If they were born into our times in the 21 century, they would've been perfectly normal and welcomed here.

Still, May is the winner in her own time. She's kind of selfish for pulling Newland back into the "normal" world - but see how she has the upper hand here in the context of 1870s.

[–] dyahrmarkt 9 years ago

A lot of people on this board seem to think May has a choice in the matter. The title of the film is "The Age of Innocence" - May is as much a product of her time and Newland and Ellen are. To cast judgment on her as so many do presupposes she has a say in the matter. After the century turned, and everyone forgot all of that splendor of old New York, it is easy to look at May, Newland, and Ellen as all products of a truly "innocent" time. Look at it under a microscrope.

May wasn't annoying to me in the slightest - she was just no more manipulative or spiteful than Larry, Julius, Newland's family, or even Ellen. For the audience to be placed in a "battle" is puzzling to me - Scorsese has correctly approached this film as Kubrick does so often - to watch these people trapped within the bounds of their own time. No one person can or should be villainized nor lionized - everyone has their flaws, problems, and strengths. But they're all working within a very closed circuit and have very little control over their actions, ultimately.

Please nest your IMDB page, and respond to the correct person -

[–] aer71367-313-155069 9 years ago

It's easier to see May as the "bad guy" as most of us are romantics at heart. In spite of May's youth, she knew very well what she was doing whole time. This entire film plays like a chess game. Brilliant moves by some and awful moves by others.

[–] 9 years ago

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[–] kaskait 9 years ago

May knew exactly what was going on and even anticipated what was going to happen. She played the only game she was trained for...to make a good marriage and to hold on to it no matter what the cost.

That comment about Ellen was the real May. That triumphant smile when she told Newland she was pregnant after she lied about it to Ellen, was the real May.

Newland never knew who he was dealing with the entire time.

[–] Rex16 9 years ago

I actually admired May the most of all the characters. She was brought up under a social ideal that people must behave politely and pleasantly in all situations and not let their inner feelings disturb the external pleasantness. It really is the same as the British "stiff upper lip". And May abided by this convention to perfection. There are a few scenes where it is clear that she is inwardly distressed by Granny Mingott's references to Ellen's presence and Newland's reactions to Ellen. However, she never reveals her anxiety in front of others, and never voices them before Newland either. Her ability to keep her distress in check, deal with her fears and insecurities all by herself, and find the unspoken means to rally all her friends and relatives behind her without letting any hint of social impropriety fall on Newland or Ellen, all bear testament to enormous strength of character. She is stronger than Newland and Ellen in her own way.

As for her "selfishness" in holding Newland back from Ellen, isn't that completely justified in a woman trying to save her marriage and hold on to the man she loves? She gave Newland the chance to break off the engagement, and he refused. Surely she has a right to expect him to stay with her now that he committed to be with her. I find it perfectly understandable that she would say something subtly cruel about Ellen in front of her husband, because how many human beings are capable of being charitable about the person threatening to break down their marriage?

I agree that she never reveals her "authentic" self in the sense she never talks about what she really feels, except in the scene where she gave Newland the chance to break off their engagement and off-screen to her son on her deathbed. However, that is how she has been taught to behave. She is simply doing what is expected of her. And how would revealing her true suspicions have helped Newland? She changed the subject when Newland attempted to confess his love for Ellen because she knew that it would only irreparably change their relationship. By giving Newland plausible deniability, she allows him to retain his dignity and sense of self-worth in their marriage. Rather than live together as the errant husband and wronged wife, they can lead their lives as equals and put the past behind them.

The truth is that Newland and Ellen could never have lived a content life, as Ellen also recognised when she asked Newland to name a country where they would be free to love without stigma. Newland's only viable option was to remain married to May and retain his respected place in society. May's "stiff upper lip" enabled him to do so. May genuinely is the hero.

[–] FawnOmatic 9 years ago

Well said.

I've never looked at the character of May in this light before but now I am.
I also have not watched this movie in years and reading that made me want to visit it again.

:)

[–] kaskait 8 years ago

May is not the hero. It is quite clear she is the villain.

Her impulse is to win at all costs. Even if it means smothering a broken hearted man and causing herself to live without love for the rest of their lives.

How would you like it to live with another person who never had a romantic thought of you or kept dreaming of another person? Imagine how awful that would be. And the only thing that would sustain you was knowing you won the battle.

[–] bma83 8 years ago

I'm sorry, but if any one is the villain it's the man who didn't have to balls to be with the woman he really loved when he was free to do so. May gave Newland every opportunity to not marry her but he did. I felt sorry for May when I read the book and felt sorry for her when I watched the movie.

[–] kaskait 8 years ago

Why feel sorry for her? She didn't feel sorry for herself.

She knew Newland was a player in the past and fooled around with married women. She let herself get engaged to him any way because he was rich and had an old, old family name.

Where May was different is that she didn't look the other way when Newland strayed as was the norm back then. Instead she threatened him with social ruin. Apparently being with a man who is miserable and just tolerates you is better than a happy wanderer in May's eyes. She got what she deserved because she also had chances to break it off and find someone who really loved her.

[–] sksolomonb 8 years ago

All the posters have made good points, but I believe all the people in this love triangle are victims, each in his/her own way. In this era, the nobles of Europe had lost much of their fortunes in various European wars, and they sought to marry rich Americans to bolster their finances and maintain their ancestral homes. The American millionaires wanted to marry into the European nobility to satisfy their own ego trips, and titles of nobility were just one more thing they could buy. It was into such a setting Ellen more or less was "sold" by her own family, who never quite believed Ellen's husband was abusive.

In this age of industrial revolution and invention, Newland Archer does very well as a patent attorney. He is torn because he is in love with two women: Ellen, a woman near his age, and May, a young girl who appears to be sweet, innocent, and naive. Newland empathizes with Ellen, who was more or less forced into an abusive situation, and he believes she deserves a second chance at love and happiness. At the same time, Newland is enchanted with the young and innocent image May projects. I believe Newland truly feared that May, being young and impressionable, would be heartbroken if he broke off the engagement. However, appearances are deceiving, and even when May gave Newland the opportunity to break the engagement, May knew he would not take her up on it. In the end, May gets her comeuppance because her pregnancies -- part of the role of dutiful wife and mother -- cause the anemic condition which ultimately takes her life at a comparatively young age.

Newland makes himself even more of a victim by passing up the opportunity to see Ellen again and rekindle their love. Because of Newland's gutless nature and his inability to be honest with himself, both Ellen and Newland are doomed to live out their golden years in loneliness.

[–] CakesAndAle 8 years ago

I actually admired May the most of all the characters. She was brought up under a social ideal that people must behave politely and pleasantly in all situations and not let their inner feelings disturb the external pleasantness. It really is the same as the British "stiff upper lip". And May abided by this convention to perfection.

That's the problem. May won't/can't break from societal expectations -- not even a tiny bit. Newland has started to see through it all. His "crisis" in the story (for want of a better word) isn't solely due to being torn between two women, but also because he is drawn to the world and freedom outside the rules and constraints of the upper crust society to which he belongs.

May represents those societal rules. His life with her is 100% predictable: the same dinners, the same operas, the same guest lists, the same everything down to the flower in his lapel. There's no progression or growth. Even privately, they will be a conventional couple in every sense. May would never break the code, even behind closed doors.

There is a couple in the story who DO, actually, break from the social constraints and although they pay the price, they were together and yet still managed not to fall off the face of the earth. I'm referring to Julius Beaufort and Annie Ring (his mistress, for whom he left his wife). Their daughter eventually marries May and Newland's son.

However, that is how she has been taught to behave. She is simply doing what is expected of her.

Women never would have attained the vote if they had all acted "as they were taught to behave." Sorry, but I don't find 100% perfect conformity a quality to admire. Privately, she could have tried to be less of a conformist, especially knowing how Newland felt. She might have even been able to influence society in these things. Recall how the Mingott family was going to "save" Ellen's reputation by getting important family members to stand by her? So it was possible to change the status quo, if only in small ways.

Those ways could have meant a world of difference to people who weren't content to just go through the motions of their lives, always conforming and never causing a raised eyebrow. May really could have helped change things for the good, but she didn't. To the last, she conformed -- except for the deathbed confession about Newland to their son.

She changed the subject when Newland attempted to confess his love for Ellen because she knew that it would only irreparably change their relationship.

She changed the subject because if he confessed, she would lose. period. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, I'm just saying I don't see it as some altruistic thing she did to save Newland.

By giving Newland plausible deniability, she allows him to retain his dignity and sense of self-worth in their marriage.

I'm not sold on that. There is an interesting piece of narration early in the film (directly from the novel) the comes right after May talks Newland out of being interested in a man's clever conversation. Newland gives in to her (his own fault) while also realizing that she will make all their decisions the same way throughout their marriage. I don't think he felt like he had maintained his dignity; I think he felt quite the opposite.

While it's true that Newland doesn't have any backbone (his own fault) it's also true that May exploits that aspect of his personality. Time and again she uses it to her advantage, and I don't admire her because of it. She didn't need to have it ALL her own way just because he was too soft. She could have "allowed" him to enjoy some clever conversation, even if she considered the speaker "common." Just because he was too weak didn't mean she had to exploit the situation and have it all her own way.

May's "stiff upper lip" enabled him to do so. May genuinely is the hero.

I disagree. Privately, she could have been more accepting, even indulgent. She could have allowed him a little something outside the box on occasion (in the way of conversation, art appreciation, etc.) But no -- she had to control it all and have everything her own way. Again, I fully acknowledge that Newland was weak and never pressed for what he really wanted. But she didn't have to exploit that all the time. And it's very strongly suggested that that is exactly what she did.

[–] 8 years ago

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