MovieChat Forums > Homicide: Life on the Street (1993) Discussion > A Lack of Authenticity,Mojo and: Well, S...

A Lack of Authenticity,Mojo and: Well, Simon's magic.

posted 12 years ago by crawen77
24 replies | jump to latest

I am probably gonna get pelted for this. But to me. These things matter when trying to replicate authenticity! To me this show is obviously unwatchable, I say that after watching one season of it without getting impressed a single time with anything.

First off, there is practically no swearing, and it's a natural law that Poilce officers swear a lot. They see and experience so much *beep* that the word gets a new meaning and start living a life on it's own. Here you have just enough curse-words to make someone who don't like them happy, that's not realism that is making a compromise on behalf of the show. They have been spread around to try to add to authenticty, but it's way too obvious in my opinion.

The constant double takes, This is something that becomes more and more annoying as the show progresses. If you need to show a scene several times consecutively it
makes it feel like a lousy attempt to bring tension to a situation that should be tense enough not to need that in the first place. In other words; a pointless annoying redundancy with no realistic feeling to it whatsoever.

It just has no mojo, at least when comparing it to 'The Wire' or 'Southland.'
Hell even 'The Shield' and 'NYPD Blue' have more soul and weird charm than this.

I can't see one of the qualities that made Simon so great with The Wire and Treme in this show, except for his most favorite ingredient, realism, which falls short here. At least too short for me! I want someone to change my mind and tell me this is worth sticking with and why.

[–] sheilagermaro 12 years ago

By any chance, are you a CSI or Law & Order: Los Angeles fan?

Christian Bale is sacrilege. Do you see any Americans playing Bond?

[–] crawen77 12 years ago

Anything but.... It can't get much lower than that

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[–] crawen77 12 years ago

@ Blueeyes

Yes I think I just grasped the essence of why this show has not worked for me now by reading your post.

I've become spoiled by HBO's standards, hehe!
I might have gotten a little carried away when I said that I don't see any of the qualities of Simon here, because the things you mention are just that.
I'm picky as hell about what I watch so these annoying factors I mentioned on top of what looked like a good show made it more of a cock-tease,if you will- than a full blown viewing experience.

With this in mind, and nothing else to watch I humbly retreat into my cave of pillows to give the rest of the seasons another go.

Also I should have watched it when it originally aired, but in 1993 I was too young and had my head too far up my ass to appreciate this kind of entertainment,sadly.

I didn't read the books, but I bet if anyone asked Simon or anyone involved in the making of the show if they wanted more swearing in it I think they would get a fat '*beep* YES' in reply.

They should redo this show on HBO. Change nothing, just add swearing and remove the double takes.

Kinda like Tim Schafer did with 'Monkey Island' re-released it with better graphics.

I'm ranting now so I'll stop.

[–] chester-copperpot-1 12 years ago

Don't take this the wrong way, but this series may just not be in your taste. If you don't get it, it's not for you.

The constant double takes, This is something that becomes more and more annoying as the show progresses.

You have to put this series in perspective. When it came in the early 90's, it was groundbreaking. The camerawork was very much the thing of the day, and it defined this series. Like The Matrix and "Bullet-time", however, it became something of a fad. It's only groundbreaking the first time around, things like that very easy becomes part of the background static done enough times. However, on this show, I like it. It is sort of quaint, above all, it defines the surroundings, it's just what it is.

It just has no mojo...

Well, there we just differ in opinions. In my opinion, it has got more mojo than anything ever since. In my taste, it is better than The Wire or Oz or CSI or whatever. It's on my top five of best tv-series ever made, together with Twin Peaks, Six Feet Under, Sopranos, and Mad Men.

I want someone to change my mind and tell me this is worth sticking with and why.

I wish I could. If you have seen one season and don't like it, you won't appreciate the rest of it. All things are not made to be for all the people all the time, some things just are an acquired taste.

[–] James_Blunts_Monkey 12 years ago

I certainly don't think that a lack of swearing makes a show unwatchable due to lack of realism. Of course, real cops tend to swear copiously (and those from Simon's book were no exception), but curse words dont equal realistic dialogue. There's a hell of a lot more to language than whether or not someone uses an extreme expletive or a more low-key naughty-word (and personally, I thought Homicide used this particular limitation very well). Not being able to throw out the F word every few seconds requires the writers to be a bit more thoughtful with their script, and while I definitely appreciate the value of curses, both as realism and also for what they bring to a scene and the emotion of a character by their nature, I think in some cases, they can be a negative. More than once I've seen a movie or tv show that takes full advantage of its ability to use swear-words, to the point at which the dialogue is overwhelmed by them, and the words become totally graituitous. The moral of the story is, this is a ridiculously minor detail really, one the show couldn't help, and I absolutely disagree with the idea that it detracts from the show.

I won't talk at length about the repetition thing, since that is definitely a matter of tastes, and while I loved it I can see why some people hate it (my brother did). Sometimes, it did seem ill-advised, but the majority of the time I didn't even notice it because it felt so right, and there are times when I felt it really enhanced a scene in a fantastic way.

And yeah, mojo...this is the best show I've ever seen, by a LOT. Obviously, the mojo worked for me, in fact it grabbed me right from the first minute. It's a matter of opinion and I guess this just ain't your show. Fans seem to be divided into two groups, some think the first season was the best, some look at seasons 4-5-6 as the peak of the show (some say 4 and 5, some say 5 and 6, some say all - season 5 tends to be the constant, at any rate). I guess there's the possibility that you would prefer the show in the later seasons, but since your issues are predominantly related to authenticity, I would guess not.

"HEY BOBBY, YOU WANT NUTS WITH THAT?! YOU WANT NUTS?!"

[–] crawen77 12 years ago

@James Blunts Monkey

Thanks for the response!

I totally agree with you that curse words are not necessary to make realism or good writing for that matter I could give countless examples of that. But for this kind of show I beg to differ. This is dark, raw, gritty ,'real' and ugly... so yeah I noticed the lack of curse words immediately

Don't get me wrong I'm not some prepubescent taffy puller that just hangs around for the next naughty word. A curse word can be used to ruin or pollute a sentence just as easy as to enhance or add flavor to it.It's basically all about utilization,timing,personality and style. And you said yourself police swear a lot, alot more than these guys (even in Simons book, even though I hadnt read it and didn't know how much swearing was in it.)

I trust David Simon better with how many curse words he felt was right in the book than what some twat network executive felt was right for the show. I respect your opinions but I think I'm gonna have to read the book here as well, just to get it the way it was supposed to be.

That's kinda why I like HBO. I'd rather watch a spectacular show that don't change the script to cater to fanbases, make or follow some imbecilic cencorship law that make them have to rewrite the original book. If I'm making a salad and somone comes and chucks a turd in it right when it was finished I'd get kinda pissed, thats all I'm saying.
God is in the details.

(Sorry if my scentences are awkwardly formulated at times, english is not my mother tongue)

Have a good day

Corruption shall never breathe stinky upon my bicycle!!!

[–] James_Blunts_Monkey 12 years ago

Crawen,

thanks for being intelligent and respectful with your opinions, it is very rare to find an IMDb user who can hold a composed and logical discussion on the pros and cons of any given thing. It is always a pleasure to entertain a difference of opinion with someone who knows how to handle it. I hope that you are ultimately able to see past your initial distastes and enjoy at least a fraction of what the show has to offer.

And as a side-note, your english is extremely good - if I might inquire, what is your mother tongue?

Cheers.

"HEY BOBBY, YOU WANT NUTS WITH THAT?! YOU WANT NUTS?!"

[–] crawen77 12 years ago

@ James pass the blunts monkey
Thank you kindly, sir!

Pleasure, yes! and I'm sure I will get over it, just gotta watch some more.

The fact that I rewatched Deadwood right before I started watching this didn't make the swearing bit any less noticeable, hehe!
That's a show that uses both swearing and great writing in perfect harmony like we talked about in the other posts.
People say some of the characters may be a little too excessive at times, and I partly agree with that,but mostly it's golden, because it was like that back then; One of the first laws that was passed in Deadwood was against swearing, actually.

I'm from Oslo, Norway. I've always loved writing and reading, but
particularly in english. Read a lot of books and comics when I was younger, and I was always top of my class in english.
If a funny line or situation from Deadwood or The Wire pop up in my head on the bus or anywhere in public, I gotta seriously contain myself not to start laughing (and these are drama shows not comedies, hehe)
There are few other shows or films or books I can say that about.

I'll post back here with an update after I watched more Homicide to let you know how it goes, hehe.

Corruption shall never breathe stinky upon my bicycle!

[–] jackfrusciante80 12 years ago

Glad you are giving it another chance.

I constantly quote little things from the wire, but not many people at work get it. And some of it is, well, unquotable.

Homicide has some great quotes, or rants in the earlier seasons. I heard one today which I am dying to put at work asap: "that's all I know for the paycheck I get" Nice variation from "Above my paygrade"

Anyway crawen, watch the little special features on the dvds too, to give you an idea what Homicide was up against at its time. Also, wikipedia page had something too I think.

Lastly, remember to watch them in the order that it was shot and intended, not shown on NBC and in the torrent :)

[–] crawen77 12 years ago

@jackfrusciante80

I have to rewatch The Wire again soon, there are so many hilarious situations and the cast is some of the best- most like-able I have ever seen, absolutely perfect.

Even though this is the HLOTS board, I just have to toss you one off the top of my head...
This situation where McNulty blames himself after Kima's undercover gig blows up in their face.
Rawls, who is 'mildly' pissed off with him from before,comes up to him as he sits on the steps pouting, and says something along the lines of:

"You're a gaping a55hole, McNulty and I hate your guts. And if this was your fault what happened here today, I would be the first son of a b to let you know, got it? This is not your fault!"

That was epic and hilarious

Also
Herc and Carver are an amazingly entertaining duo:
Herc with the Shaft theme in the car while chasing hoppers, constantly spouting foul chauvunism,or in genral making a complete ass of himself, while Carver is always there to shake his head and look away in contempt and disbelief.

Anyways,I'm sure I'll grow to love this show as well for what it's worth
I hope to get some memorable lines and situations from this as well.

Thanks for the tip on the chronology and extras and stuff. I'll bear this in mind when going at it!

Corruption shall never breathe stinky upon my bicycle

[–] crawen77 12 years ago

@chester-copperpot
You are so right about these things. I was a little cranky when I wrote the OP, I explained this further in the post above.

I just pick up things very easily and the camerawork thing just didn't work for me, like another poster mentioned I kinda forgot that it was made in 1993.

I don't get what's so great about Mad Men but that's another board hehe.

But the other favorites you mention match mine.

This thread has made me wanna give it another go, and watch it from the beginning. Like you said some things are an aquired taste, and here, beneath antiquated camerawork and censorship lies a show that I have taste for.
I'm sure of it.

Just wanted to stir the pot a bit, to get an impression if what to come was fluff, or if it gets better or worse.

[–] chester-copperpot-1 12 years ago

Well, sorry for being so cranky. Good thing that we could whip you up to shape, though... :) Keep up the good work...

[–] greenegg 12 years ago

I'm always fascinated by what crops up on this board, so thanks crawen... for offering another view of my favorite cop show of all time. I own the complete boxed set, and I still have the same reactions to the same emotional moments every time I watch. Back in the 90s, I would rearrange my entire schedule to catch Homicide, no matter how much NBC screwed around with its scheduling, etc. I draw on my memories of the original airings every time I view an episode. My mother was also addicted to Homicide, and I can still recall how we shared our reactions during our weekly phone calls. It's a wonder the producers managed to do as much as they did with the moronic suits/censors at NBC giving them such a hard time.

There were so few great cop shows during this decade, and this show featured such a marvelous ensemble cast, aside from the stupid additions they made in the final season. I hope you can enjoy this show as much as many of us have through the years. I can see how people who try to view the show for the first time after seeing more modern shows might have a hard time with the camera action, censored language, etc. In its heyday, this show wrote the book about gritty cop shows. As people who visit Baltimore often to see friends, we especially value the local filming.

Put puppy mills out of business: never buy dogs from pet shops!

[–] garrettok31 12 years ago

*beep* the Wire and *beep* HBO, c'mon, giving a tv show sh!t because it doesn't have cursing? You do realize that television existed for almost 20 years before HBO came on the scene in the 70's, right? And that it wasn't until somewhere in the 90's that anyone gave a sh!t about any of their original programming, right? You brought your show idea to one of the big three if you wanted anyone to actually see it.

I'm tired of people equating serialization with good storytelling. Sure, I like long stories as much as the next guy, but these shows that ask you to invest so many effing hours just to get a sense of why people even like it is... too encouraging of the couch potato lifestye for my tastes. If I have to watch more than 3 or 4 hours of something to appreciate it, it ain't worth it. I already paid the price with LOST and 24.

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] pistrix 8 years ago

For one thing, network tv vs cable tv. Swearing allowed in one, not in the other. So the swearing factor is eliminated.

The double take is called jumpshot. It was synonymous with the show. If you don't like it, then do not watch any more episodes.

NYPD Blue and The Shield have been not even close to being as realistic as HLOTS.

HLOTS is still Simon realistic. Don't compare HLOTS with shows that were on CABLE tv.

((Damn the remakes, Save the originals.))

[–] gasmaskproductionsbooks 8 years ago

it's television, nineties television, they can't just fill it with swear words or it would be taken down off TV. Nowadays nobody cares about a few swear words here and there, but at the time HLOTS was filmed, it mattered.

Also, why do people always have to compare HLOTS to The Wire? One is not better than the other. They're hardly connected anyway.

Canada, eh? 🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦 :)

"The 21st century is all flash but no substance." ~ Smog City

[–] Xeliou66 8 years ago

Exactly! I'm sick of people comparing Homicide to The Wire. Just because they were both in Baltimore and just because David Simon was involved with both doesn't mean that the shows were tied in. They were about different things, Homicide was solely about the cases and the detectives of the BPD Homicide Unit. The Wire was mainly about inner city Baltimore and the drug trade and drug dealers vs the cops, with some focus on other facets of Baltimore life such as the schools, the docks and the politicians at City Hall. Two totally different shows

[–] gasmaskproductionsbooks 8 years ago

True, they're not really connected at all, and I like both HLOTS and The Wire. Personally I like HLOTS a little more, but that doesn't mean one of the shows is better than the other one. They're both great. Not connected at all though, aside from a few characters from HLOTS making brief appearances in The Wire and both shows taking place in Baltimore, neither are connected. I don't know why the ongoing debate of HLOTS Vs. The Wire is still being dragged out by people. 😕

Canada, eh? 🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦 :)

"The 21st century is all flash but no substance." ~ Smog City

[–] Xeliou66 8 years ago

100 percent right. They were both great shows that have rightly earned legendary status but for different reasons. I preferred Homicide as well just because I found the subject matter more interesting and the characters better and more likable in most cases. I especially didn't care about the political stories on the Wire, if I want to watch scumbag politicians I would turn it to a news channel. But yeah, the shows are totally different and I'm sick of the comparisons. It is usually Wire fans bashing Homicide that bring up this stuff because a lot of Wire die hards have huge ego's and get really pissed when anyone says that another show comes close to the glory of their beloved Wire. They also tend to think that the main judgment of how good a show is is how much profanity the show uses. I have never seen a Homicide fan go to a Wire board and say that the show sucks or doesn't match up to the standards of Homicide yet Wire fans love to do the exact same thing on Homicide boards.

I am really tired of the whole discussion and it really drags the board down.

[–] gasmaskproductionsbooks 8 years ago

From my experience, cops do swear and curse, but not nearly to the extent that fans of The Wire are expecting. Any cop I've ever met talks more like the language in HLOTS than the language used in The Wire. I have nothing against The Wire, but I totally agree, fans of The Wire really have it in their heads as the perfect crime show and often try to bring it into every forum or group for crime shows that I've ever seen. I think HLOTS's characters were a lot more memorable than on The Wire, with characters like Giardello, Munch and Howard. The show might not have had as much profanity as The Wire, but I find profanity crass and annoying, anyway.
Both shows are excellent, so I wish the constant battle over which one is better would stop already, but I doubt it. 🚔
Canada, eh? 🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦 :)

"The 21st century is all flash but no substance." ~ Smog City

[–] Xeliou66 8 years ago

I agree with what you are saying, both shows were great in their own way but I'm sick of them being compared. I also get tired of Wire fans going on to fan boards of other shows to lecture them about how their show doesn't match up to the Wire. I agree about the Wire overdoing the profanity, it was more realistic in the sense of that no words were off limits like they were on Homicide, but they overdid the swearing and real cops wouldn't swear in certain situations like they had them doing on the Wire. And the amount of profanity isn't what I judge a show by.

I agree about Homicide's characters, characters such as Pembleton, Munch, Howard, Gee, Bayliss and Lewis are among my favorite characters ever, also detectives that weren't on as long such as Crosetti, Bolander, Felton and Kellerman were great as well and they did the recurring and minor characters very well too. Homicide had a terrific and memorable cast of characters.

But I just get tired of the 2 shows being compared, Homicide was entirely about Baltimore Homicide cops and cases while The Wire explored lots of facets of Baltimore, the cops, the drug dealers, the schools, the docks, the media and City Hall.