Daphne's accent... amongst other things... - Frasier (1993) Discussion

[–] Deenglow 8 years ago

To be fair, British shows don't treat the nuances of American culture and American dialects very carefully. Americans in British shows are often brash caricatures.

I do wonder why Jane Leeves (who could pass for a Yorkshire- or Lancashire-accented character, if not Manchester) never mentioned some of the errors the writers made. I mean, "bumbershoot"?! That is not a thing in Britain.

Far worse than Leeves was her brothers each having different accents, seemingly from Cockney to upper class RP to whatever Robbie Coltrane was doing. That would be like a British show depicting an American family whose members have strong southern accents, Bostonian, Texan and Canadian.

reply

[–] blakgard 8 years ago

The Moon brothers' accents were intentional. It was part of the joke.

reply

[–] Deenglow 8 years ago

In what way was that a joke?

reply

[–] mikeyg24 8 years ago

The joke that Daphne's family is comically dysfunctional. It wasn't intended to be a side splitter but more of a curiosity.

Hey! You're not old enough to drink! Now go and die for your country!!!

reply

[–] jezfernandez 8 years ago

I'm curious. Did my US friends gauge that Daphne's brothers were all from completely different parts of the UK? I can tell certain US accents apart (e.g. Texas, Mississippi, New York) but beyond that, I wouldn't know. My point being, would US audiences link the accents as "comically dysfunctional"? Simon was a cockney, which is just about as far from Manchester as you can get.

I didn't think Daphne's accent was too bad (and my brother-in-law is from Manchester). The rest were awful. On a related note, Clive Roddy (in The Two Mrs Cranes) was shockingly awful.

reply

[–] mikeyg24 8 years ago

Well I'm not from the US but I found it amusing that they all had different accents and Robbie Coltrane was completely incomprehensible. I guess it's one of those things you get or you don't. Remember in this series one of the funniest characters was the one we never even saw. A lot of people don't get that.

Hey! You're not old enough to drink! Now go and die for your country!!!

reply

[–] Tigeranne 8 years ago

I was just thinking about this today-- the fact that all those brothers had different accents and the fact the Daphne sounded like she wasn't from Manchester.

I'm born and bred in the USA.

reply

[–] blakgard 8 years ago

I'm not sure why you're confused. It's poking fun at wrong accents.

reply

[–] kya1 8 years ago

I had wondered this for years, I had no idea it was supposed to be a joke. I genuinely thought nobody had realised that the accents they were using were from completely different parts of the UK.
________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAIJ3Rh5Qxs

reply

[–] marilynneX 8 years ago

THANK YOU! I find many British actors trying to sound American annoying. Very few can do it successfully.

reply

[–] candacbap-88-377616 7 years ago

I've been very impressed with a few actors that I thought are American, but are British. Hugh Laurie and Linus Roache are two that blew me away when I heard them interviewed. Chiwetel Ejiofor and Kate Winslet do a pretty go American accent.

reply

[–] Mo_Fishwater 8 years ago

I do wonder why Jane Leeves (who could pass for a Yorkshire- or Lancashire-accented character, if not Manchester) never mentioned some of the errors the writers made. I mean, "bumbershoot"?! That is not a thing in Britain.

"Bumbershoot" is an annual international music and arts festival held in Seattle.

http://bumbershoot.com

reply

[–] SkiesAreBlue 7 years ago

I have never, ever heard an umbrella called a " bumbershoot". Generally they are called, "brolly " .

SkiesAreBlue

reply

[–] liscarkat (16517) 2 years ago

My mom used to call umbrellas "bumbershoots", but she grew up in California in the 1930s and '40s.

reply

[–] forthesafetyofpuppies 8 years ago

Spot on in every respect.

So many shows and movies, when writing British characters, just seem stuff every line of dialogue with archaic/wrong "English" terms and references. It's hilarious. It might somewhat work if Daphne was a Lady of the Manor type, but she's obviously supposed to be working class. Mahoney is English too, isn't he? He and Leeves must have laughed themselves silly when they got the script each week.

___
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qssvnjj5Moo

reply

[–] Floss-Is-Boss 8 years ago

The Moon brothers' accents were intentional. It was part of the joke.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well they were really wide of the mark on that one.

Another few embarrassing moments were the depictions of English pubs as knee slapping sing song places and where older gentleman play the fall guy for a few free pints. Clearly the writers have never been to a wetherspoons on a friday night.

A year or two back I started a topic on accents, the general view is no matter what greek, german, english there were treated more like a cartoon version than anything.

Guess when Clive sauntered in during season one and said how "love-er-ly" Daphne was we knew we had a long road ahead of us.

reply

[–] Deenglow 8 years ago

I remember reading that the actor who played Clive was a last minute replacement and has since suffered all kinds of career damage for his laughable accent. I felt quite sorry for him reading that lol.

Re: the pubs - one sees this a lot in American shows. Whenever an English, Scottish or Irish pub is shown, it will be full of old men dressed like they're from the 1930s in flat caps, sipping pints and smoking pipes. It's so condescending. Pubs in the British Isles are like pubs anywhere else - most popular ones are all about microbeers, flavoured ciders and cocktails, and full of young folk dressed for nights out or business people during the day. Please, America - realise that we are not all stuck in the past!

reply

[–] shibbyjames-53716 8 years ago

well that episode was filmed 20+ years ago... it was in the past lol

reply

[–] Deenglow 8 years ago

Fair point, but even 20 years ago pubs in the British Isles didn't look like it was the 1930s lol.

reply

[–] Maya55555 8 years ago

I guess the writers were viewing too many episodes of Masterpiece Theatre.

"A stitch in time, saves your embarrassment." (RIP Ms. Penny LoBello)

reply

[–] jezfernandez 8 years ago

I think Clive went to the Dick Van Dyke school of British accents! Absolutely dreadful - he struggles in a number of places, such as "...pract-ically newlyweds". Thankfully, the rest of the cast take the bulk of the dialogue. Overall, it's a great episode, especially Marty's outlandish astronaut stories: "Someone turned off the artificial gravity and I landed on a giant pick-axe they use for smashing moon rocks."

reply

[–] DidiNultien 8 years ago

I'm rewatching the show and what I find most annoying is hearing Daphne use American English words which a Brit wouldn't use. Saying 'soccer' in stead of football, for example. Or even worse, saying 'fanny', which has a completely different meaning in British English.
I'm not even British and I noticed this. It's just bad writing.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.

reply

[–] DidiNultien 8 years ago

I'm rewatching the show and what I find most annoying is hearing Daphne use American English words which a Brit wouldn't use. Saying 'soccer' in stead of football, for example. Or even worse, saying 'fanny', which has a completely different meaning in British English.
I'm not even British and I noticed this. It's just bad writing.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.

reply

[–] ClayGorgon 8 years ago

I wouldn't say it's bad writing. It has never bothered me. But then I'm not British, or American for that matter.

Think of it this way: she lives among Americans, with Martin and Frasier. Obviously, she'd start using the words she'd picked in her immediate environment.

It's all just part of natural adjustment.

reply

[–] DidiNultien 8 years ago

I still think she wouldn't use a word that means "vagina" to describe someone's bottom. Some things you just can't unlearn.

reply

[–] ClayGorgon 8 years ago

Personally, I've never attributed any importance to the fact that Daphne is British.

Jane Leeves is American, and her British accent is mostly used as a comical device.

It's an American sitcom ,and its first concern is to appeal to the American audience, so it's bound to use American English to remain accessible.

reply

[–] happyterwilliger 8 years ago

Sorry to nitpick, but Jane Leeves is British. She sure ain't from Manchester, but she does share Daphne's nationality.

Did the forgotten generations scream or go full of resignation, quietly protesting innocence?

reply

[–] ClayGorgon 8 years ago

Wow, I could have sworn she was American. My bad.

reply

[–] mikeyg24 8 years ago

Ever heard of Google?

Hey! You're not old enough to drink! Now go and die for your country!!!

reply

[–] lunayoshi 8 years ago

This thread confused me because the trivia section of Frasier says she was born near Manchester, but her IMDB page says it was Ilford. I wouldn't be able to tell either way, honestly, which is why I was trying to find out.

I'd assume they'd use American terms just because Americans (the target audience) typically don't know British slang, but I'm sure it's mostly because the writers are American and don't know any better. I think it would've been a great opportunity to spread a bit of culture, but meh...

---
You can spend the rest of your life with me, but I cant spend the rest of mine with you.

reply

[–] mikeyg24 8 years ago

She is from Ilford which is in London. I think as other posters pointed out it was probably for the benefit of American audiences. Quiet honestly many Brits know what most Americanisms mean anyway so I'm sure very few were put out either side of the pond.

Hey! You're not old enough to drink! Now go and die for your country!!!

reply

[–] briggerz 8 years ago

This thread confused me because the trivia section of Frasier says she was born near Manchester, but her IMDB page says it was Ilford

I wouldn't trust the trivia section, it claims that none of the actors who play her 3 brothers are English when it's pretty well known that Richard E Grant is English.
Just because he was born in Swaziland it doesn't make that his nationality.

reply

[–] Mercaptopurine 8 years ago

In America, at least where I'm from, "fanny" does mean someone's bottom.

reply

[–] DidiNultien 8 years ago

I am aware of that. In the UK however, it means vagina.

reply

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] SkiesAreBlue 7 years ago

"Bum" is the slang for bottom. That probably wouldn't go down with Americans as when they say "bum steer" it means something different.

SkiesAreBlue

reply

[–] peeaecee 8 years ago

Some years ago, I was at a hotel, and sitting with this English couple. They told me they were from Manchester, and while I was talking to them, I mentioned that I know of it from Frasier. They agreed, apparently they both like the show, it's really popular over there, but when I mentioned the accent, they also agreed that it's not right. They said she sounds Yorkshire.

reply

[–] mikerowerush 8 years ago

Anthony LaPaglia`s "Manchester" accent was almost on a par with Dick Van Dyke`s Cockernee accent in Mary Poppins.......

reply

[–] jjparish 8 years ago

That stupid, pathetic, amateurish, atrocious, so-called "manchester" accent from an ENGLISH actress is a fooooking abomination. Jane leeves should be shot for her disservice to englands image abroad.

reply

[–] dallinhsmith 8 years ago

While I can agree with you on most things, and understand those aren't foods commonly eaten together, I will say I think they're about right when it comes to the bad food stereotype. I've eaten just about every nationality's food out there and it was incredibly hard to find really good English food. The only meals I really enjoyed there were an Indian restaurant and a Greek food stand. Man you guys have some amazing Indian places there! For that I'm jealous!

reply

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Hanz-Willhelm2 8 years ago

I've seen her on several shows and she always sounds the same to me, as if that is her real voice, not something she drummed up just for a character.

Was ist der Sinn des Lebens?

reply

[–] kristen1165 7 years ago

But then, why didn't they just say her character was from where Jane Leeves was actually from to avoid this criticism?

reply

[–] Hanz-Willhelm2 7 years ago

I assume all of the writers are American and didn't really worry about this detail or think it mattered.

This seems to only be a criticism from the British. I, as an American can't tell any of these accents apart, I don't know what someone from Manchester should or shouldn't sound like. She has a British accent and that is all I know.

The British see the show but I'm sure the writers only had a American audience in mind and weren't concerned as to whether they had the actress and the correct English town lined up accurately. Is that not they typical accent of someone from Manchester? Ok, I'll take everyone's word for it, I'd never know.

So the natural born people from England are saying "hey, that's not the right accent!" but to the intended American audience this played to through the 90's the show was popular and we were aware of know error because we don't know the subtleties of the different accents within England.

Lamar Jackson for Heisman!

reply

[–] suikodenmaster 7 years ago

A natural born person from SCOTLAND here who could tell it wasn't a Manchester accent.

Most foreign people especially Americans think England is the UK rather than one country within the UK.

reply