MovieChat Forums > Babylon 5 (1993) Discussion > what's the best viewing order?

what's the best viewing order?

posted 8 years ago by drizzt_do-urden_86
31 replies | jump to latest

I'm fairly sure this has been asked a lot in the past, and hopefully can be answered here without leading to any major conflict.

I'd heard this show's name mentioned as one of the greatest sci-fi series ever alongside the likes of Farscape (which I eventually loved) and Lexx (which never really grabbed me). I bought the first two seasons of B5 at Best Buy a while back and watched the first three episodes, but every time I tried to continue something interfered so I eventually stopped trying, although I intended to go back to it someday. During the interval I learned that there were several movies produced separate from the series but (almost) all of which fit in to and enhanced the plot of the series, and all but one of which were released in a single collection.

The other day I was killing time at a used DVD store, and they happened to have the third, fourth and fifth seasons as well as the movie collection. Somewhat impulsively I bought all four (they also had the spinoff series Crusade but I'd read it was inferior so I skipped it). Now, with five seasons' worth of show plus five movies, I'm wondering where's the best place to begin. I know that one of the movies was intended as the pilot and meant to be viewed first, but beyond that I'm not too sure. I did a search and found a few recommended viewing orders, most of which were similar but had minor differences between them, enough that I wondered what the difference would be (one even had the season 4 finale after the season 5 finale which all other lists insisted be viewed last). I'm just wondering what's the best order to get the whole story without getting confused or losing track of what's going on. I don't know if this series will become one of my favorites, but I'm hoping so, and with all the praise it's gotten, I think that's more likely than not.

So anyway, that's my spiel. Any help that can be given is appreciated.

-I wonder if you can refuse to inherit the world.
-I think if you're born, it's too late.

[–] alpha128 8 years ago

This is my recommended viewing order (numbers at left are the years in which the story takes place):

2257 • The Gathering (Pilot)
2258 • Signs and Portents (Season 1)
2259 • The Coming of Shadows (Season 2)
2260 • Point of No Return (Season 3)
2261 • No Surrender, No Retreat (Season 4)
2245–48 • In the Beginning (1st film)
2261 • Thirdspace (2nd film)
2262 • The Wheel of Fire (Season 5)
2263 • The River of Souls (3rd film)
2266 • A Call to Arms (4th film)

This is basically the air date order, with a little shifting of some movies to put them in chronological order.

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] alpha128 8 years ago

Thanks. One question though: can the movies be watched between the seasons like you have them listed, or as another list I read suggested, should they be watched between specific episodes within the seasons? (for example, watching Thirdspace between two of season 4's episodes) - drizzt_do-urden_86

It can actually work either way. The order I gave you before was the simplified order.

Although it is set during Season 4, "Thirdspace" did not first air until well into Season 5. "In the Beginning" originally aired right before Season 5 started.

Now if you want to go to the extra effort, you can watch "Thirdspace" after "The Illusion of Truth" and before "Atonement". But "Thirdspace" is really a standalone story and it doesn't matter too much if you watch it during or after Season 4.

On the other hand, "Atonement" and "In the Beginning" are joined at the hip. There is a strong case for watching "In the Beginning" right after "Atonement". They were originally going to be a three part episode. But the first part became "Atonement" and the rest became "In the Beginning". Also I think it works better if a certain character is introduced to you in ItB rather than late in Season 4.

[–] Theoden_of_ODU 8 years ago

Now if you want to go to the extra effort, you can watch "Thirdspace" after "The Illusion of Truth" and before "Atonement". But "Thirdspace" is really a standalone story and it doesn't matter too much if you watch it during or after Season 4.

On the other hand, "Atonement" and "In the Beginning" are joined at the hip. There is a strong case for watching "In the Beginning" right after "Atonement". They were originally going to be a three part episode. But the first part became "Atonement" and the rest became "In the Beginning". Also I think it works better if a certain character is introduced to you in ItB rather than late in Season 4.

I'd suggest this for those two stories.

People could watch "In the Beginning" first (before all other movies or episodes), but I just don't like some of the decisions they made in the script and editing that "give away" some of the show's early mysteries. This shouldn't spoil the movie, but that movie is basically a story about events from before the show started being told by a character after the show is over. Because of this, I personally think viewing it requires some prior knowledge of the show - one of the main characters of "In the Beginning" doesn't appear until season 2. There's an opening monologue by two characters that seems tacked on, especially due to the visuals that go along with it. There are lines of dialogue that come from a season 3 episode without any context and the "surprise" in a season 4 episode is no longer a surprise.

Most people wouldn't be bothered by watching it first, but I'd suggest against it. Just know that "The Gathering" and some of season one is a bit "dry."

There's a very complex chronological reordering of season one episodes (and two season 2 and two or three season 3 episodes), but the broadcast ordering of the stories is fine. I wouldn't bother with it the first time around, just like how you don't actually have to watch the original Star Trek series based on their star dates (or estimated star dates). I've done it upon re-watches of the show, and some of the characterization in season one is better.

No, not the mind probe!

[–] coolgit 8 years ago

If you are watching it for the first time then watch them all.
Episode in intended order but wasn't shown on TV in order.

In the Beginning (movie)
The Gathering (movie)

Season One ("Signs and Portents")

Midnight on the Firing Line
Soul Hunter
Born to the Purple
Infection
The Parliament of Dreams
Mind War
The War Prayer
And The Sky Full Of Stars
Deathwalker
Believers
Survivors
By Any Means Necessary
Signs and Portents
Grail
Eyes
A Voice in the Wilderness part 1
A Voice in the Wilderness part 2
Babylon Squared
The Quality of Mercy
TKO
Legacies
Chrysalis

Season Two ("The Coming Of Shadows")

Points of Departure
Revelations
The Geometry of Shadows
A Distant Star
The Long Dark
A Spider in the Web
A Race Through Dark Places
Soul Mates
The Coming of Shadows
GROPOS
All Alone in the Night
Acts of Sacrifice
Hunter, Prey
There All the Honor Lies
And Now For a Word
Knives
In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum
Confessions and Lamentations
Divided Loyalties
The Long, Twilight Struggle
Comes the Inquisitor
The Fall of Night

Season Three ("Point of No Return")

Matters of Honor
Convictions
A Day in the Strife
Passing Through Gethsemane
Voices of Authority
Dust to Dust
Exogenesis
Messages from Earth
Point of No Return
Severed Dreams
Ceremonies of Light and Dark
A Late Delivery From Avalon
Sic Transit Vir
Ship of Tears
Interludes and Examinations
Walkabout
War Without End, Part One
War Without End, Part Two
Grey 17 Is Missing
And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place
Shadow Dancing
Z'ha'dum

Season Four ("No Surrender, No Retreat")

The Hour of the Wolf
Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?
The Summoning
Falling Toward Apotheosis
The Long Night
Into the Fire
Epiphanies
The Illusion of Truth
Thirdspace (movie)
Atonement
Racing Mars
Lines of Communication
Conflicts of Interest
Rumors, Bargains and Lies
Moments of Transition
No Surrender, No Retreat
The Exercise of Vital Powers
The Face of the Enemy
Intersections in Real Time
Between the Darkness and the Light
Endgame
Rising Star
The Deconstruction of Falling Stars

Season Five ("The Wheel of Fire")

No Compromises
The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari
The Paragon of Animals
A View from the Gallery
Learning Curve
Strange Relations
Secrets of the Soul
In the Kingdom of the Blind
A Tragedy of Telepaths
Phoenix Rising
The Ragged Edge
Day of the Dead
The Corps is Mother, The Corps is Father
Meditations on the Abyss
Darkness Ascending
And All My Dreams, Torn Asunder
Movements of Fire and Shadow
The Fall of Centauri Prime
Wheel of Fire
Objects in Motion (movie)
Objects at Rest (movie)
Sleeping in Light (you can watch it now or better after Voices in the Dark)

Crusade

A Call to Arms (movie)
Racing the Night
The Needs of Earth
The Memory of War
The Long Road
Visitors from Down the Street
The Well of Forever
Each Night I Dream of Home
Patterns of the Soul
The Path of Sorrows
Ruling from the Tomb
The Rules of the Game
War Zone
Appearances and Other Deceits
Voices in the Dark (movie)

However if you want to watch it without "independent/filler episodes" then use this list.

In the Beginning (movie)
The Gathering (movie)

Season One ("Signs and Portents")

Midnight on the Firing Line
Mind War
And The Sky Full Of Stars
Deathwalker
Signs and Portents
A Voice in the Wilderness part 1
A Voice in the Wilderness part 2
Babylon Squared
Chrysalis

Season Two ("The Coming Of Shadows")

Points of Departure
Revelations
The Coming of Shadows
All Alone in the Night
Acts of Sacrifice
Hunter, Prey
In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum
The Long, Twilight Struggle
Comes the Inquisitor
The Fall of Night

Season Three ("Point of No Return")

Matters of Honor
Voices of Authority
Messages from Earth
Point of No Return
Severed Dreams
Ship of Tears
Interludes and Examinations
Walkabout
War Without End, Part One
War Without End, Part Two
And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place
Shadow Dancing
Z'ha'dum

Season Four ("No Surrender, No Retreat")

The Hour of the Wolf
Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?
The Summoning
Falling Toward Apotheosis
The Long Night
Into the Fire
Epiphanies
The Illusion of Truth
Thirdspace (movie)
Atonement
Racing Mars
Lines of Communication
Conflicts of Interest
Rumors, Bargains and Lies
Moments of Transition
No Surrender, No Retreat
The Exercise of Vital Powers
The Face of the Enemy
Intersections in Real Time
Between the Darkness and the Light
Endgame
Rising Star

Season Five ("The Wheel of Fire")

Strange Relations
In the Kingdom of the Blind
A Tragedy of Telepaths
Phoenix Rising
The Corps is Mother, The Corps is Father
Darkness Ascending
And All My Dreams, Torn Asunder
Movements of Fire and Shadow
The Fall of Centauri Prime
Objects in Motion
Objects at Rest
River of Souls (movie)
The Legend of the Rangers (movie)
Sleeping in Light (you can watch it now or better after Voices in the Dark)

A Call to Arms (movie)
Voices in the Dark (movie)

[–] kerryedavis 8 years ago

Do you happen to recall the reason for changing a few episodes back to intended order rather than airing order? Do they actually refer to characters or events out of sequence or something?

Nothing stands out specifically for me, but I haven't re-watched it in some time.

When the excellent but short-lived series Brimstone was first on, they showed some episodes out of sequence and - for example - an episode where the main character takes his overcoat to be repaired, was shown before the episode with the events where it gets damaged.

[–] coolgit 8 years ago

Productions delays. This order is better as one episode can connect to the next without a break.

[–] Solasd 8 years ago

I think Talia's story line in Season 2 works a lot better if you watch "A Race through dark places" before "Soul Mates" as JMS suggests in his Master List (http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/master/eplist.html).

And even though this isn't that important, "Knives" works better before "In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum" (also according to the list), because in "Knives" one main character explains he hasn't been at his homeworld for a long time, and in "In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum" we learn that he is on his way there and a few episodes later in "The Long Twilight Struggle" we see him just arriving there.

[–] coolgit 8 years ago

If you read my episodes list you will find it is what you are suggesting.

[–] alpha128 8 years ago

Theoden_of_ODU states above, and I concur, that watching "In the Beginning" first is not recommended. ItB contains too many spoilers for later in the series to be viewed first.

[–] kerryedavis 8 years ago

Yes, that's something I've dealt with before on other threads. It was made as a refresher or re-introduction by TNT before they started running season 5, and that's when it should be seen.

[–] coolgit 8 years ago

It is true in regard to the spoilers but i felt it was more enjoyable and makes understanding the story arc better. The gathering was quite poor especially with the looks of the characters which thankfully was changed before season 1.

Alternatively watch it after Into the Fire season 4.

[–] alpha128 8 years ago

Alternatively watch it after Into the Fire season 4. - coolgit

As I've written previously, if one were to watch Babylon 5: In the Beginning (1998) during Season 4, the proper point would be after Atonement (1997). That way the viewer learns Delenn's secret in "Atonement" and the rest of the story in ItB.

[–] coolgit 8 years ago

Not sure why but i will look at the episode and see what you meant.

[–] alpha128 8 years ago

As I've written previously, if one were to watch Babylon 5: In the Beginning (1998) during Season 4, the proper point would be after Atonement (1997). That way the viewer learns Delenn's secret in "Atonement" and the rest of the story in ItB. - alpha128 (me)

Not sure why but i will look at the episode and see what you meant. - coolgit

Both Atonement (1997) and Babylon 5: In the Beginning (1998) deal with the Earth-Minbari War, and during "Atonement" we learn that Delenn started it!

[–] kerryedavis 8 years ago

I liked the original version of The Gathering, but thought the changes made later were not improvements.

[–] coolgit 8 years ago

Really. I though Delenn and G'Kar looked terrible in The gathering.

[–] kerryedavis 8 years ago

Well especially Delenn's makeup changed. But that'll be true no matter which version of The Gathering you see, and I do think it's important to see it, one way or another. And I thought the earlier version with more of the dust smuggler's capture etc, was better. I suppose if you didn't care about running time you could have that AND the longer tour of the alien section, but since those details of the alien section were never important again as far as I remember, given a choice I'd prefer to see the longer dust smuggler scenes.

[–] Theoden_of_ODU 8 years ago

Isn't it the other way around though? I thought they cut out most of the "Alien Zoo" scene and added back in the Dust Smuggler scene in the "Special Edition."

I ended up watching both versions a year or two ago, so my mind isn't totally straight on which one is which.

The Stewart Copeland music was fine, but I liked how they got Christopher Franke to re-score it to fit the rest of the series.

No, not the mind probe!

[–] kerryedavis 8 years ago

Maybe for a "Special Edition" if that was part of a separate package or just the The Gathering movie alone. But what I've seen come out on DVD packages omits the longer dust-smugger scene. What I recorded earlier from first broadcast, and I think what came out on laserdisc too, has more of that,

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Karl Aksel 7 years ago

If it's your first viewing, start with the series. In the Beginning is good, but contains spoilers. The Gathering is not the best introduction to the franchise. It's a movie where the characters haven't quite fallen into their place yet and if you aren't already warmed up to B-5, it is likely to leave you with a feeling of, "the hell did I just watch?" Not because it's difficult to follow (it's not), but because it simply fails to be interesting on its own.

[–] kerryedavis 7 years ago

No matter how clunky anyone might think The Gathering is, or how much better it might be if some costumes/makeup were different, it provides essential information for the series, especially/including getting started.

[–] Karl Aksel 7 years ago

No matter how clunky anyone might think The Gathering is, or how much better it might be if some costumes/makeup were different, it provides essential information for the series, especially/including getting started.

Not really. There is some backstory, but nothing that doesn't get explained in the series anyway. I didn't watch The Gathering until I had seen all five seasons, and learned nothing the series hadn't already given me. In fact, when I first started watching Babylon 5 it was from S1E5, Parliament of Dreams, at the very end of the episode where Sinclair introduces the ambassadors to the various Earth religions. This means I missed the first four episodes of the first seasons, and almost all of the fifth as well, and didn't get to see those until I purchased the series on DVD years later. It was still no problem to keep up. My impression after seeing The Gathering for the first time was that although I enjoyed it as a fan, I was glad that this had not been my first exposure to Babylon 5.

[–] kerryedavis 7 years ago

You may believe that having it explained later is good enough. I disagree. Especially when it comes to several pieces of information about the different races, and even things like Sinclair's role in the Minbari war especially the Battle Of The Line. Knowing those from the start is different from - and better than - picking them up later since it influences events and those characters from the start. And also the way we think and feel about them.

[–] Karl Aksel 7 years ago

You may believe that having it explained later is good enough. I disagree. Especially when it comes to several pieces of information about the different races, and even things like Sinclair's role in the Minbari war especially the Battle Of The Line. Knowing those from the start is different from - and better than - picking them up later since it influences events and those characters from the start. And also the way we think and feel about them.

If anything, I think The Gathering only muddies the waters when it comes to races. The Vorlons, for example, are very different in The Gathering from what they are from episode 1 onwards. There is even the plot hole of how the poison was administered: via a handshake by the assassin with the changeling net. This poses the following problems which Sheridan later brings up (but is never resolved):

1. How was the poison administered through the encounter suit?
2. Since when did Kosh shake hands? With what appendage?

The Gathering also has quite different personalities for Delenn and G'kar - character arcs and possible plot directions which are never pursued.

As for Sinclair's role in the Minbari War, and Battle of the Line, this is made clear as soon as it is relevant in the series. It is deliberately kept mysterious until the big reveal in the series. The Gathering only gives us the teaser, "There is a hole in your mind", and that Sinclair blacked out at the Line, where the Minbari inexplicably surrendered in spite of having the upper hand. These questions are repeated in season 1 - at no point is The Gathering required viewing, as the series never seems to assume the viewer watched it. Hell, I didn't know such a pilot even existed until I was well into the fourth or fifth season. I never felt I was missing anything.

[–] kerryedavis 7 years ago

If you remember that Lyta explained the contact would be subjective, and that Vorlons are not entirely corporeal to begin with, those issues become less of a problem. And in the original version Kosh greets (fake) Sinclair as "Entil'Zha Valen" it's not hard to understand why Kosh might be willing to "shake hands." At least, not when we understand what that meant.

[–] Karl Aksel 7 years ago

The problem isn't Kosh's willingness to shake hands, but rather: what hands? It is clear that in The Gathering, not all races or characters had settled in their proper places yet. And my personal opinion remains that if you are new to the B5 universe, you are less likely to keep on watching if you start out with The Gathering. Best viewed - in my opinion - as a bonus episode when you've watched the series and turn to the movies because you want more B5. But the series is where it's at.

[–] kerryedavis 7 years ago

Maybe the "hands" that he used to rescue Sheridan from falling? Apparently the Vorlons have hands when they want to have hands.

[–] purple_dave 7 years ago

Without conflict? Nope, not a chance. First-time viewers, however, shouldn't use the same viewing order that repeat viewers might choose. In the Beginning should _NOT_ be watched first the first time. It's less of an issue if you just watch the episodes in broadcast order vs production order or any other adjusted order. You almost certainly won't catch any of the slight continuity errors that resulted in further adjustments to the production order. You probably won't even catch most of the problems caused by the broadcast order.

As for the movies, the only two that are essential for the main series are The Gathering and In the Beginning. River of Souls is basically just Soul Hunter redone with a bigger budget, a longer runtime, and President Bartlett dressed up as an alien. Thirdspace has absolutely no bearing on anything else that ever appeared under the Babylon 5 name, though it did contain a few solid character moments. A Call to Arms is very specifically a premiere movie for Crusade, so if you don't intend to ever watch the spin-off series it's less important to watch the prelude.

So, if you really want to get the absolute best viewing order, there are multiple lists out there. Just realize that deviating from the DVD order will require lots of disc-swapping to keep up, where the DVD order allows you to just select "Play All" every three hours.

You know what noone tells you about cooking with the Dark Side? The food is really good!

[–] Paso_Leati 7 years ago

The best pieces of advice here came from alpha128 and coolgit.

For first time watchers, it is best to keep it simple as alpha128 said:
- Pilot (Babylon 5: The Gathering (1993))
- Season 1-4
- Babylon 5: In the Beginning (1998) and Babylon 5: Thirdspace (1998) (As someone pointed out, the latter does not have any impact in the overall storyline, but some good character moments)
- Season 5
- Babylon 5: The River of Souls (1998)

About Babylon 5: A Call to Arms (1999), it was meant to bridge the gap with spin-off series Crusade, so leave it for the last one.

If you don't mind swapping discs, definitely go with the order coolgit suggested, and my favourite. It is basically the same as alpha128's but:
- reordering some episodes within the seasons (mostly S1-2) as instructed by this page: http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/master/eplist.html. It fixes a few minor inconsistencies and some character arcs flow better by spreading them better across the seasons.
- placing Thirdspace in the middle of season 4, in the best (not perfect, mind you) possible place.
- placing River of Souls between the last and second to last episode, in its chronological place.

Whatever you do:
- In the Beginning should NOT be watched first the first time you watch the series. Its place is after S4 (When discussing spoilers, some people forget that some of the latest lines in the movie refer to the end of S4!)
- Don't watch too many things between the second to last and the last episode. It'll kill the emotional momentum, so to speak. River of Souls only, if at all.

Enjoy!
And repeat. This series improves on repeated viewings, because there is SO much hidden in plain sight that you only get the second time around.