MovieChat Forums > Unforgiven (1992) Discussion > Not that Morgan Freeman wasn't great but...

Not that Morgan Freeman wasn't great but...


...the film carries a lot of critical weight for being true and gritty.

However having a black character in a prominent role such as it was takes a lot out of the realism of the film.

It's a solid film and yet if we were given a performance like Freeman from a caucasian actor, I'd probably bump the film up by 0.5

I'm sorry but little things like this cause conspiracy theories of AA movements.



Those foolish enough to move from canada to america increase the average I.Q. of both countries

reply

It's not the prominence of the role that's the problem. In some areas, 1/3 of all cowboys were Black or Mexican. The problem is his character being allowed into a white saloon to sleep with white prostitutes. It simply would not happen.

Anyway, the character of Ned is white in the script.

http://www.facebook.com/scarletworm

http://facebook.com/davidlambertart

reply

Freeman is a great choice since he is an actor that portrays friendship and loyalty. The one that makes us symphatize with the character.
For a white equivalent try William H. Macy.

My Movie Journal: www.imdb.com/list/qghloKboQqg/

reply

Yes it would. Not every saloon is Scores. heyooo!

reply

" The problem is his character being allowed into a white saloon to sleep with white prostitutes. It simply would not happen."

I seriously don't believe this is a point on which to get hung up.

Perhaps you're right, but you can't be sure.

Remember Skinny tells Little Bill that business had been bad since the bounty had been offered, so may be he was happy to have Ned's business. Shows the markets rule, even in Big Whisky.

reply

Well, in the original "True Grit", Colleen Dewhurst offers her traveling brothel's services to Mr. Nightlinger (played by Roscoe Lee Brown).

reply

I've written before, and someone above has also made the point, that the West was full of black cowboys, most escaped slaves. You can see that in a quick Google search, which will bring up several books on the subject.

The place where Blacks did NOT often appear is in Hollywood films, of all types, unless they were dancing, shining shoes, or otherwise serving Whites.

People hungry for the voice of god
Hear lunatics and liars

reply

Hmmm... we know that Munny's wife died in 1878. If we assume that the movie takes place in the early 1880s, the end of the Civil War was nearly 20 years earlier. Would it have been that uncommon to see an armed black man riding around out there?


_________________________
'It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?'
'If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.'

reply

Ned's not black, even though Freeman is. Doesn't matter if there were black cowboys then. The character isn't black.

reply

Would it have been that uncommon to see an armed black man riding around out there?

No, but that African-Americans were no longer slaves didn't mean racism disappeared. It's highly peculiar to the ppoint of being a bit unrealistic that no one happens to mention that Ned is Black.

Of course, it could well be that:

Will doesn't mention it because Ned's his friend;
The Kid doesn't mention it because he doesn't want Will and Ned annoyed at him (especially Will Munny);
Bill doesn't mention it because he's atypically non-racist; and
The others who do mention it just don't happen to so so on camera because if Will and Bill objected to that kind of language, you'd need to be either masochistic or suicidal.

reply

Would it have been that uncommon to see an armed black man riding around out there?

No, but that African-Americans were no longer slaves didn't mean racism disappeared. It's highly peculiar to the ppoint of being a bit unrealistic that no one happens to mention that Ned is Black.

Of course, it could well be that:

Will doesn't mention it because Ned's his friend;
The Kid doesn't mention it because he doesn't want Will and Ned annoyed at him (especially Will Munny);
Bill doesn't mention it because he's atypically non-racist; and
The others who do mention it just don't happen to so so on camera because

I also found it odd that no one seems to mention, or notice, that Ned is black. I like your assessed reasons. Maybe not true, but very logical. I'm sure Freeman was thrown in there because he was really popular at the time.

reply

Well damn a movie character in a white mans film cant be black unless everybody is calling him n i gger or he is saying muth a *beep* every two words??? So morgan freeman wasnt reallllly black in this movie ohhh ok gtfoh.

reply

a movie character in a white mans film cant be black unless everybody is calling him n i gger

Not if you want a historically acurate film set in the 1880 American West, no.

reply

You sir are viciously idiotic. Black cowboys were respected out west a *beep* load more than your poor grasp of history will allow you to comprehend.

reply

I know this is an old post, but I have to point out that we don't need to assume anything about the timing.

It's 1880--presumably late fall or winter--when Delilah is attacked (the screen tells us explicitly that it is 1880). Little Bill tells Davey and Quick Mike to come back in the spring to hand over the horses.

Next we see them do that, and it's late spring--which would be 1881--as evinced by Shorty telling them they're late and he was getting ready to call Little Bill in a few days to have him go after them.

The main part of the film takes place in July 1881. We know that definitively because of the discussion and newspaper headlines on the train (as well as Little Bill's "...on Independence Day," comment) which announce Charles Guiteau's assassination attempt* on President Garfield. Guiteau (an unhinged fanatic who believed Garfield owed him an ambassadorship) shot Garfield on July 2, 1881, and since the other men on the train are not aware of all the details yet, we can then assume that Little Bill is correctly giving the date when he punches English Bob.

English Bob is kicked out of town the next day, which would be July 5, and the rest of the action takes place over the course of the next week or so (Bill Munny is unconscious for three days, remember).


*I say "assassination attempt" because Garfield did not die until September, so at the time it truly was only an attempt. Not to mention that had it not been for some absolutely horrific medical malpractice, Garfield would very likely have lived; the bullet shot by Guiteau actually only penetrated the stout President's abdomen (missing all organs) by a few inches. But then various doctors etc. went poking around inside the wound, looking for the bullet and trying to determine the extent of the damage, with various implements, including unwashed fingers and sharp bits of metal. They managed to dig their own canal in the poor man's abdomen, puncture his previously unharmed liver, and introduce all sort of germs and filth. The end result was that a three- or four-inch wound became a tunnel of infection eleven inches or so long. They made that even worse by administering emetics and enemas, and then feeding the liver-compromised President brandy and milk. Garfield suffered a horrible painful death, and it was really due to the lack of proper care.

In fact, this medical malpractice was so well-known even at the time (when medicine was certainly not what it is today, and admittedly some of Garfield's treatment was according to the best possible methods of the day) that when Guiteau was tried, he said, "Your Honor, I admit to the shooting of the President, but not the killing." He wasn't entirely wrong.

Of course he was hung anyway. As he mounted the gallows (actually, he *danced* onto the gallows), he recited a poem he'd written, which went:

I am going to the Lord-y
Glory Hallelujah! Glory!

...and then they pulled the lever.



*****
People said love was blind, but what they meant was that love blinded them.

reply

Obviously you don't know what realism is.

You want to play the game, you'd better know the rules, love.
-Harry Callahan

reply

You know that John Wayne movie The Searchers? The real life person who inspired that character was actually black.

reply

[deleted]

There were plenty of black cowboys, as well as Mexican and Native American cowboys too

reply

I did some research on this topic, because this is one of my favorite films. As it turns out, my research tells me that racism in the western US was really not as prominent as it was in other parts of the US. In fact, this was a very big reason that many blacks in the late 19th and early 20th centuries moved from the south to the west.

After emancipation, many blacks (especially those in former slave state Texas) rode the ranges of the west and finally settled in as farmers. Many pioneers of the west were black. I'm guessing that many people in Big Whiskey were used to seeing blacks in town, and I'm guessing that the townsfolk followed Little Bill's lead, who seemed to be pretty non-racist and had a strong moral compass, and didn't engage in open racial slurring of others for fear or getting on Bill's bad side.

reply

The OP is the reason why Hollywood has gone to hell today.

reply