Why is this film so underated? - Strictly Ballroom (1993) Discussion

[–] marismi 16 years ago

yes, i think so, too.

but the film is in very good company, i think; nearly ALL of the most beautiful films (that i know) are rarely recognized or even KNOWN, and they are forgotten from tv- program- makers (is that the right word?).

friendly wave

m.

ALL LIFE IS EQUAL

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[–] daisywalker119 16 years ago

Yeah that's annoyingly true.
tv-program-makers, haha, probably!!!

Friendly wave back!

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[–] yoo 12 years ago

Really?

Some counter-examples:

- Le fabuleux destin d'Amélie Poulain
- Dr. Strangelove
- Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
- M
- Pulp Fiction
- Memento
- Se7en
- Unforgiven

All amazing films, all in the IMDb Top 250, all highly regarded by critics and laymen alike.

Now I agree that some films are underrated, but not all are.

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[–] marismi 12 years ago

hi, i think that you answered to me; so:
no one said that ALL films are underrated and i wrote that most of the FOR ME most beautiful are (and/or unknown and forgotten by tv...).

from your (in half mainstream-) list i don´t like (nor dislike) "amelie" and am not interested in "eternal sunshine...".
"m", "dr. strangelove", "se7en", "memento", "pulp fiction" are really good (i think like you), but they don´t belong to the (for MY eyes - such can only be subjective) most beautiful (or interesting or touching) films i´ve seen.
and ALL are very well known, rated by hundredthousands of users.

examples for the films which i mean? look:
ALLONSANFAN (taviani- brothers): 6.9, 456 users - aired maybe 3 times in 38 years
LENZ (george moorse): 8.7, but only 9 (nine!) users; only 2 copies (goethe- institute and german kinemathek, a museum)
LES PETITES FUGUES (yves yersin): 7.1, 179 users; 30,2% rated 10 - aired 2 times
SAINT JACK (peter bogdanovich): 6.9, 647 users - aired 4 times maximum, only late at night
PRIEST (antonia bird): 7.1, 5680 users (wow!)- not aired here as far as i know
MOZART AND THE WHALE (petter naess): 6.8, 5270 users
THE HANGING GARDEN (thom fitzgerald): 6.9, 2149 users
THE MEDUSA TOUCH (jack gold): 6.9, 2241 users
SIMON (marshall brickman); 6.0, 332 users
LONG WEEKEND (colin egglestone): 6.7, 1261 users - maybe 1 time aired
SHIZA (gulshad omarova): 6.9, 592 users
THE YELLOW HANDKERCHIEF (udayan prasad): 6.8, 3543 users
NIGHTBREAKER (peter markle): 6.2, 268 users
VAGABOND (agnes varga): 7.6, 2540 users
THE COMPANY (robert altman): 6.2, 4225 users
ONE LAST DANCE (liza niemi swayze): 5.2. 781 users
THE SWALLOWTAIL BUTTERFLY (shunji iwai): 7.3, 1953 users
LA PLANETE SAUVAGE (rené laloux): 7.6, 6117 users

not to forget LA VELA INCANTATA (gianfranco mingozzi): not even mentioned in imdb, only ONE time aired in germany. an as beautiful as touching film about 2 brothers with a mobile cinema, touring in italy during fascism´s rising and finding themselves on opposite sides: one in love with a fascistic woman, sqire´s sister; the other in friendship with farmers in resistence. and it is a wonderful declaration of love for cinema, with a music like morricone´s.

do you know any of them?
they all (and very much more...) are very good, i think, and i rate them much higher; and probably you would love the one or the other, too.
but only few people know them at all; maybe cause they aren´t shown in cinema (nobody bought the rights), or/and tv ignores/forgets them, or their start was drowned by a ballyhoo- blockbuster... .
and several of them got something special or strange, so that they´re not for the mass.

friendly wave

m.

ALL LIFE IS EQUAL

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[–] yoo 12 years ago

most of the FOR ME most beautiful

Yup, I wasn't aware that you were discussing your subjective view. (Well, more subjective than usual for discussions around here.)

For me, that's a bit different, I like a lot of the classics (some examples above). Of course, there are some favourites that I think are hugely underrated (*beep* Åmål, Speak), but that's just the way it goes.

am not interested in "eternal sunshine...".

You should be.

not to forget LA VELA INCANTATA (gianfranco mingozzi): not even mentioned in imdb

This one?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084851/

do you know any of them?

Not a single one I'm afraid. Could you point out the two or three that you particularly recommend?

(Your posts are somewhat hard to read, could you please use proper capitalisation? Thanks!)

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[–] marismi 12 years ago

hi yoo,
At first:

Your posts are somewhat hard to read, could you please use proper capitalisation?

I´m sorry about that. English ain´t my natural language and I do my best, with extensive help by (?from?) dictionary. It seems that sometimes it works good, other times it won´t. And the only capitalisation- rule that I know for that language, is: sentence´s beginning, names and "I"; but cause I anyway type with only one finger, I usually write all the same. I´ll try to think about (upon? of?) your wish, I´ll do my best at all.

Yup, I wasn't aware that you were discussing your subjective view.

I find it a bit dubious/questionable to appraise/judge films (novels, dramas, paintings ... ART) objective - there are so much "schools"/methods and styles, and even what seems to be a huge mistake may be intended and well done - wether I like it or not.
A film (or other art) may be "perfect" skilled, but if it can´t reach and/or touch me I don´t like it; as well as another one, simple done and technical not perfect, may have a compelling charme.
Therefore I prefer to access that it´s just MY taste and opinion.

Of course, there are some favourites that I think are hugely underrated (*beep* Åmål, Speak), but that's just the way it goes.

Yes - it´s sad. Cause "underrated" often means "unknown" and/or "forgotten" and at least that it´s difficult (or impossible) to find a way to watch them at all.
(also it´s kind of unfair....)
"Amal" I like too,´it´s an 8 for me; "Speak": I´ve no idea which film you mean , maybe I didn´t hear about it (fitting to this theme (? object?)....). "Beep": the docu?
If you think that "eternal sunshine"´s really good and not just another lovestory, I´ll look for it aired; maybe i´ll like it?

This one?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084851/

Oh! I´ve forgotten that it´s in, didn´t search for it last week - how embarrassing!. From time to time I search for more informations about it (best in german language) and there is really very few about it in the whole internet.
I´ve just taken a look at the ratings and it´s rated by only 17 users, 3 females (and I´m the only one rating 10). I can´t even find out wether still anybody owns the rights or wether it´s allowed to put it to youtube (I was lucky enough to record it while the only one airing in germany)

Could you point out the two or three that you particularly recommend?

Wow - difficulty! (laugh) They´re underrated and so you, too, may don´t like them....
In any case I would say "Lenz": the maybe most true to the original (a novelette fragment by Georg Büchner http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_B%C3%BCchner) picturization, but I can´t see a chance to watch.

You might love "Saint Jack" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079843/reviews

If you can enjoy calm, patient watching, try "Les Petites Fugues" - a wonder- and beautiful film about an old farmhand which suddenly finds freedom and own interests - first with a motorcycle, then with a camera.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078080/reviews
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0o5WuSO54w

If you love dancing, you´ll probably like "One Last Dance" with Patrick Swayze and his wife Lisa Niema (director, too)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0157191/reviews

"Nightbreaker" is a very, very strucking and touching (and important) TV- Movie (and so: not "great", but well done) about a forgetten part of US- History
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097977/reviews

A real, real "classic" (60 years old) that i didn´t list cause it´s rated by > 5000 users is "Jeux Interdit/Forbidden Games" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043686/reviews. it´s sooo sad, it´s sooo funny and sometimes it´s cute.

More than 2 or 3. And I´ve neglected some more that you might like (Mozart..., Simon, Handkerchief, Priest (you´ll probably love if you love "The Full Monty"), Hanging Garden http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0125128/plotsummary... .

One more (real great and classic): SALT OF THE EARTH. Here it´s free and legal: http://archive.org/details/clacinonl_SaltOfTheEarth
With 60% rating 8 and higher, it´s not underrated - but by only 1448 people. And it´s forgotten. The link goes to a kind of "museum".

Oh - it´s late; I needed some hours for this and I hope that you can read it.

friendly wave

m.

ALL LIFE IS EQUAL

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[–] yoo 12 years ago

I´m sorry about that. English ain´t my natural language

Same here, so I need every help I can get.

I find it a bit dubious/questionable to appraise/judge films (novels, dramas, paintings ... ART) objective

A bit dubious... yes. However, I don't think that it's just arbitrary: You might not like eg. Seven Samurai, but it would be ridiculous to say that the movie is rubbish. That's where I went with my first reply ("all highly regarded by critics and laymen alike.").

Even beyond that, I would say that a movie can have objectively bad (or good) characteristics, eg. if the story contradicts itself.

You can still like such movies; an example would be A Good Year, which I happen to like because the conclusion is perfect: I can't imagine many thing that I would prefer to spending the rest of my days with Marion Cotillard in a vineyard in southern France. I can still see that it is an utterly non-descript romcom.

Cause "underrated" often means "unknown" and/or "forgotten" and at least that it´s difficult (or impossible) to find a way to watch them at all.

That situation has gotten better, the internet helps to find many obscure movies that would be effectively lost ten years ago.

*beep* Åmål is a Swedish romantic teenage movie, US title Show me Love (bleh); is this the one you know? This one is not quite unknown, big hit in Scandinavia, and it was even in the Top 250 for a short time.

I found Speak (2004) through Kristen Stewart, after I've seen Panic Room. Her flat acting style is a perfect match for her character, and this is IMHO the most underrated movie of the last decade. Some amazing scenes about communication failure between teens and adults. (Just like *beep* Åmål)

If you think that "eternal sunshine"´s really good and not just another lovestory, I´ll look for it aired;

Do that. It's definitely not "just another love story", to the point that I'm reluctant to recommend it to my mainstreamy friends; they should at least get an introduction. It uses an SF element as a vehicle to get right down to the essence of the love story. Amazing actors all around (one of only two movies where Kirsten Dunst is sufferable), esp. the leads.

I just checked my voting history, most of the movies I rate high are pretty well-known. A quick list of the ones least known (< 10,000 votes):
- The Power of Nightmares (2004), BBC documentatary by Adam Curtis about the paradigm change in politics caused by 9/11.
- Bob Roberts (1992), satire on US politics
- State of Play (2003), BBC TV series, best short TV show I know.
- L'appartement (1996), romantic mystery

Also Firefly (2002)/Serenity (2005), but if you'd like it, you already know it. Also Es geschah am hellichten Tag (1958), but if you'd understand it, you already know it. (That has to be among the top three or so movies in German.)

They´re underrated and so you, too, may don´t like them....

So you do have an eclectic taste! Some interesting movies, I will look around and try to see them. Thanks!

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[–] timbermisc 16 years ago

If you look at the demographics, kids under 18 didnt' give it high marks. Why? Probably because they are saturated with Hip Hop and hate music. Romance for them is long gone. I am writing from San Francisco, I see it all.

This movie is too tame, too romantic for the hate cults: goths, Hip Hoppers, gang bangers, metal rockers, punks (who are about 40 years old now). Romance died in many parts of America especially the cities. Only the Latins keep romantic dancing going here now, and a few older hold overs like me from the 1950s. Romance died with Grace Slick of the Jefferson Airplane. It died from too many catcalls from the druggies who sit on their butts like listening to music. They don't dance.

Ballroom dancing recalls Prom time, Cinderella, Princes of the past, Carey Grant, and Big Band music.
I am a ballroom dancer. What a great hobby I have found. Who cares if the music is "old". It's fun. And romance is fun.

This movie never made it to the big screens in the U.S. It just made it to the art movie houses here. I saw it in a movie house with only 24 seats total. It's australian, and so, we Americans think of it as special and querky. Even Flash Dance did not play in the best movie houses here in America. Dancing is just not really popular hobby here in America. I mean dancing wherein you take lessons, not just hopping around like a bunny.

England is the one place in the world that has preserved ballroom dancing! This is the center of ballroom international competitions!

We here in America don't have the icons of queens and kings to follow, we have drug addicted actresses and actors that get occassionally arrested for evading the police. You in England have better role models for ballroom dancing than we do.

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] blahsta 16 years ago

its not under rated. its over rated

this was one of the worst films i ever saw.

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[–] phasersonfunky 16 years ago

Well said. I have to say, I'm 16 and live in the US, and I love this film, as well as other dance movies, and I've loved it for years. The whole romantic state of mind that ballroom dancing sets you into is wonderful, and if I had the money, I'd take classes immediately. Sadly, I know I'm in the minority when it comes to my age-group. As you so clearly pointed out, it says something about the people we live around, doesn't it? It's a shame, and rather frustrating, that so many people can't appreciate beautiful music these days.

----------
'I am what I am. Someone has to be.'

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[–] ellenXxXzena 15 years ago

I couldn't agree with you more. I'm 18 years old, and I've lived in a drug infested town in Ohio. All people do there is get high, shoot each other, blare music that has no substance, and sit on their bums all day. It's disgusting. I, for one, wish someone, anyone, would bring back Fred Astaire, Ginger Rodgers, ballroom dancing in general, decent music, decent clothes, etc. You don't how many people have called me insane for wanting this. It makes me wonder about their insanity. And, I'm just going to add this now, just to get out of the way, it's not really relevant, but...: BOOTY SHAKING TO MUSIC THAT YOU DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND IS NOT DANCING! IT'S JUST BEING DISGUSTING AND LOOSING IQ POINTS, IMBECILE! *sighs* Rant's over. Sorry about that.

P.S. I'm the only person you'll ever meet who goes around, yelling 'CULTURE DEPRIVED NIMRODS!' It gets a lot of evil looks. Am proud.

P.S.S. I've only watched one season of Dancing With The Stars. That show has way to much showing off and not enough dancing. I know about ballroom dancing from watching specials on PBS and reading about it. Also, I watch alot of 1940's and 1950's movies with people like Fred Astaire, Ginger Rodgers, Doris Day, etc., which basically all of them show some form of the fox trot. And, the dresses they wear are SO PRETTY!

Also, I love this movie. Baz Lurhmann is one of my favourite directors. And Paul Mercurio was HOTTTT!
PSYCHITSOPHRANIC!

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[–] anthrogirl 13 years ago

As a Goth (a 49 year old one), I take exception to your calling Goths a 'hate cult'. Goths tend to be very romantic in their outlook, albeit a bit on the morbid side at times. The same goes for Punks. Not everyone is into Johnny Rotten-style punk; the Ramones created songs that were happy and life affirming, such as 'Sheena is a Punk Rocker' and other danceable tunes. The Talking Heads also produced a lot of great music that wasn't downish. As for hip-hop, early hip-hop was filled with party tunes like 'The Breaks', 'Fantastic Voyage' and other songs that have dancability.

By the way, Strictly Ballroom is one of my favorite movies EVER. It's sweet, romantic, sexy, and says authority isn't always right - which is what Goths tend to believe. My still-Punk boyfriend who wears a suit and tie to work also loves the movie.
As for ballroom itself, I listen to music from the 20s and earlier on a regular basis, and I'm a big fan of big band music. Like you, I think Cary Grant is dreamy (I love that dark edge he has in so many of his films). But I think the reason why the movie didn't catch on in the US is because of the aversion so many Americans have to foreign films and foreign accent. While we often see British accents as 'posh', we very often reject films from the rest of the English speaking world if there are no American actors present. Non-English speaking films get almost no play at all.

The death of the studio system (a system that encouraged drug addiction if it kept stars working and under control and threw stars to the wolves if they didn't toe the line on every aspect of their lives) was bad for people who love movie icons in the old mold. But quite frankly, a lot of studio films are as dull as dishwater and don't reflect the real world at all. Michael Caine, Robert DeNiro, Renee Zellwegger, Meryl Streep and other fine actors would never have had a chance under the studio system. That also goes for people like Morgan Freeman, Denzel Washington, Angela Bassett, BD Wong, George Takei and others, who would have been consigned to the roles of household servants and laundrymen in old Hollywood. While something was definitely lost, a whole lot was gained.

As far as 'lessons', the Nicholas Brothers never took lessons and Gene Kelly thought they were better dancers than he. James Cagney never took lessons either. Nor did Gregory Hines. I don't think anyone in their right mind would say that they 'hopped around like a bunny'.

Everything changes, even dance. The waltz was once considered immoral. The tango was associated with Argentine brothels. Jive was done on street corners among poor black kids with no education. Tap was invented in the slums. All of these are now 'ballroom dances', and the ballroom versions very often come across as stiff, studied, and devoid of vitality when compared to the originals or versions done by non-ballroom types.
you have a right to your own opinion, but maybe you might want to examine some of your beliefs.

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[–] sd-106 13 years ago

Just to add a voice, metal head here and I thought this movie was great. Much better than the last 5-6 or more recent movies that we've watched.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] GoTheDistance 16 years ago

I don't think its underrated for the reasons timbermisc says.

I'm 38, male, American, don't dance, like rock and pop. And Strickly Ballroom is one of my favorite movies.

It DID make it to the big screen in the US. I saw it in a theater with around 600+ seats(40 miles south of LA). It was the only time I've ever heard an audience applaud at the end...yet I wasn't surprised(you gotta do something with that adrenelin).

I'm guessing it's underrated because it's Australian, and it's got the word ballroom in the title....and because of these, not many people have seen it.

Goldie76 - Timbermisc has SOME idea what he's talking about
Blahsta - Either you were watching two things at once, or you were watching it with "one of the worst" brains.

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[–] bookwrm118 16 years ago

I think it might have something to do with it being an independent film from Australia with pretty much all unknown actors.

I only recently watched it because Moulin Rouge is like my favorite movie of all time, and Baz Luhrmann's adaptation of Romeo and Juliet was really good, so I figured I'd give Strictly Ballroom a shot. Honestly, thought it was super-cheesy at first, but then I fell in love with it. By the end of it, I wanted to watch it again. Immediately.

And a movie about competitive ballroom dancers might not be everyone's cup of tea...

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[–] OliviaV 16 years ago

the chemistry between the two leads Scott and Fran was very real!!!
I didn't dig the humour in this film though.
The dancing was okay but i truley believe ballroom has come a long way in terms of exposure since 1992 with Dancing with the Stars and So you think you can dance and Strictly come Dancing.
Paul Mercurio, of course is an excellent dancer and i knew without looking it up that he was a dancer before an actor. With that said i thought he was the best actor in this film. the reason i believed he was a professional dancer was because you could totally feel his passion for dance, it was like he wasn't actually acting just being how he is when he dances, it was awesome to watch.
i don't know but the girl who played Fran is most likely a classicaly trained dancer, no?

Back to the original question, no i do not think that this film is under-rated.
Why?
the love story was sweet, well acted and believable, the rest of the story was below average.
IMO it was pretty cheesy.
Not enough dancing to really make this film a GREAT 'dance film' IMO.
HONESTLY the paso at the end was pretty good, Paul is an excellent dancer BUT it wasn't like WOW!!!
i would have liked to see them dance a full Rumba as well.
So all in all it was an okay film, and i can understand why it is under-rated.

Also Paul Mercurio is now a judge on the New Zealand Dancing with the Stars. When i first saw him i was like OMG he is so familiar, when i looked up his name on here i realised he was from this film. I don't know how i recognized him though he looks VERY different. Obviously he is a lot older but also tubbier hehe but he is cute, just wow, looks very different.

R.I.P Heath<3

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[–] marismi 16 years ago

"i don't know but the girl who played Fran is most likely a classicaly trained dancer, no?"

you´re right: tara morice is an actress with singing education (it´s her which sings "time after time" in this flm).
she got some weeks education for this film and the great final dance was the first scene in a film for her.
paul mercurio feared that he might look daffy (? silly?) when he tries to dance ballroom; his roots are classic(al?), ballett.

for me this film has a very fine humour; but above all i like to watch sweet tara morice and paul mercurio, alone and together.

friendly wave

m.

ALL LIFE IS EQUAL

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] SaraGooner 14 years ago

Oh, I enjoy responding to posts two years after they were posted. :)

The starter of another discussion on here would disagree with you. I love the film and am happy with the amount of recognition it received and continues to receive in Australia. I'm confused by what the response was to this film outside of Australia (and outside of NZ too I guess). On one hand I see lots of people from other countries who like this film and prefer it to Moulin Rouge!, Romeo + Juliet and Australia and the film got some BAFTA nominations and even won a few. At the same time I read posts of people responding to news of a special edition released in April this year saying things like "very few people cared about this in the first place." and "it bombed in Britain".

This film has a more domestic feel to it than Baz Luhrmann's other films (I realise Romeo + Juliet and Moulin Rouge! aren't set here) and maybe that's why it's generally so cherished here but not necessarily overseas.

For the record, Bill Hunter's a very highly respected actor in Australia. Barry Otto and Tara Morice do a lot of acting in plays. Paul Mercurio's definitely well known amongst dancers in Oz (and NZ).

"Screw you guys, I'm going home!"

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[–] SaraGooner 14 years ago

Plus any movie with dancing is bound to scare away a few guys (Note that I didn't say "all guys".)...Especially if it has romance in it. Many of the guys I went to high school with would probably label it "a f#&king chick flick" and "gay".

Like any film I wouldn't expect everybody to like it as we have different tastes but most of the negative responses to SB I've come across seems to be people missing the point. A theatrical film which uses caricature as part of its comedy and as a technique being criticised for having over-the-top acting really doesn't seem to make sense. It's kind of like criticising a specific musical for having singing in it.

"Screw you guys, I'm going home!"

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[–] melwyn 13 years ago

Exactly, so many people just don't get the style.

I don't recall it bombing, as others have said, it certaintly didn't in Australia and I know it got good audiences in the US and UK. It got a fair bit of attention from critics in the US because of Michael Douglas. He saw it before it's US release (don't know how) and apparently told anyone who would listen about this great film he saw, and said it was "proof that you don't need sex and violence to make a great movie".

That got a lot of people in Hollywood interested in Baz. I think people forget that he would never have gotten the money or the resources to make Romeo + Juliet if it wasn't for SB, because it staked his reputation as a new kid on the block with new ideas who deserved to be noticed.

---
I just want sausages and mash and a bit of cake. Not twigs fried in honey or a donkey in a coffin!

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[–] FilmFan50 14 years ago

On the surface, I think this film didn't get the recognition it deserved because it came out in the wake of the phenomenal response and success of "Dirty Dancing" and then its subsequent tours released 5 years earlier.

If you're not interested in dance films in general and only saw the preview of SB as a casual viewer, this film comes across as simply another story where an experienced male ballroom dancer is teaching an unexperienced female dancer with a romance thrown in. Some may have thought "Haven't we've been there, done that?" Not fair, but that may have been a very real, first impression.

I love both these films. Although they have a few overlapping themes, the approaches the directors took are vastly different.

FilmFan50

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] Torian06 13 years ago

To you, it's boring.

But not to so many, who appreciate it including this poster.

Truth inexorably,inscrutably seeks and reveals Itself into the Light.

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