Sally


So whatever happened to David and Sally?? i always thought they were cute together but the movie never shows if they get back together??

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From what I remember (I haven't seen the movie in years) they did not get back together.

What I want to know is why she broke up with him. Was it because he was Jewish or because he lied about it?

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proabably both i think mainly because he is jewish which is really sad

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Yeah, I'm sure it was mainly because he was Jewish. The fact that he lied about it was just a convenient excuse.

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Sally breaks up with David because he is Jewish. When he stops by her swimming practice she pretty much tells him how her family would never stand for them to be a couple (something about how her grandmother would be rolling over in her grave) and how she is being constantly teased by her friends for even kissing a jewish guy. David tries to reconcile with her and goes to kiss her but she pulls back and says that she won't allow this to happen. So, because he is jewish is the only reason they stop seeing each other, otherwise, who knows what might have been.

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In fact, Sally says "Believe it or not, you're not the first Jewish boy I've met, just the first one to deny it."

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She's an airheaded biatch anyway. She would eventually married a guy for more money and wealth because all she could do was swim and be ignorant. Heck, she never even heard of taking trash to the dump. People like that will never know how to survive without their trust fund. It is ironic how both of these actors wound up playing lovers again in Airheads.

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I couldn't stand the character of Sally! She didn't have to be that way with Charlie when she was dancing with David. She's just a snot.

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Sally was a bit childish, particularly in the way she dealt with Charlie, but that's not unexpected in a sheltered child. I did think there was an underlying strength in the character, and got the sense that if David had met her in college instead of high school she'd have been able to defy her peers on this. I also think that his inability to tell her he was Jewish was a real factor in her not being willing to try defying her family and peers.

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That may be true but I will never forget her acting humiliated and whispering tearfully that her friends asked her if his nose got in the way when they kissed. She just absolutely couldn't handle it.

It's Khazadum, not Z'Ha'Dum. Sheridan, go home!

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I don't think it was because he was jewish...i think it was because he was poor and from scranton. Sally only dates the rich and the powerful. When she found out David was from Scranton, was poor and not powerful, she dumped him.

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No look at the scene where David goes to her school pool. Hse flat out tells him that her parents wont allow her to date a Jewish gu, not to mention he lied about it. She dumped him because he was Jewish and not due to his money status, although it prolly helped inthe decision inthe end.
stupid was a crime you would get double life and the electric chair

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On Sally and David's first date, she finds out that he is poor and from Scranton. He tells her about taking the trash to the city dump and watching 2 guys scavenging for metal and later says how his family shares the woods with everyone else who wants to go camping and doesn't have a private cabin/house in the woods. Even after the game where the Dillons and Wheelers are having dinner, David still gives off the impression to everyone that he's not wealthy because he says how in Scranton a club is 4 guys who chipped in to buy an old car. I don't think anyone cared about his wealth only because they could see that David was going to be a football star and would go to Harvard and that he was going to be successful later in the life.

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I don't think David ever denied he was Jewish--he just didn't announce it to everyone. Why should he? Before he got to the school, the football coach was the only one who knew about it and warned him not to say anything to the other students.

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He never actually denied being Jewish but he did try to hide it in other ways, such as not wearing his Star of David.
I'm not saying I blame him considering the obvious anti-semetic attitudes shown by his "friends".
He also explains to Sally that one of the reasons he hid it was because he had similar experiences before regarding bigotry.

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Right, he never denied being Jewish. Nobody asked, so he didn't tell.

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What's a jewish person supposed to do? "Hi I'm mark and oh I'm jewish in case that's a problem with you??" It's absurd. Why why why why do people care what your religion is or where you came from?? The movie proved that the scumbag can be the majority anyway. Makes me so frustrated.


Cindy

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*beep* bigot


Cohagen- "My friend in 5 minutes you won't give a *beep* about the people"

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I think that if Sally knew from the get-go that David was Jewish, she would have broke up with him. A part of her felt betrayed finding out about it the way she did. Sally comes from blue-blood society so meeting other people's expectations was crucial. Even if she decided that his religion didn't bother her, they don't have enough in common for a long-term relationship.

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Though her exact motives aren't clear, I had the impression her problem wasn't so much anti-Semitic feelings as a fear of what her friends would think.

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he never lied about being jewish

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Personally, i don't think she deserved to have him back. she cared more about what her parents thought than what she felt for David. she said herself that she knew he was the same person, but that wasn't enough.

David could have found a much better girl than her. one who wouldn't care if he was Jewish or not. Hell, he was going to Harvard the next year! they obviously didn't care! he could have easily found a new and better girl!

Chef13

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Harvard was pretty anti-Semitic at that time as well. Read a book called Reunion by Rona Jaffe--it has a Jewish main character who is OBSESSED with fitting in, and extremely insecure about her WASPy surroundings.

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They didn't. Sally wasn't a bad girl, but she was afraid to rock the boat in the sense of going out with a Jewish boy.

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Exactly. She was very much a product of her time and her upbringing. It simply Was Not Done to date a Jewish guy, and she really wasn't prepared to take a step like that. She probably took an enormous amount of teasing--I find it interesting they included the line about "they're asking me what it feels like to kiss a Jewish guy," there's something about that line that indicates how vicious the teasing may have been.

The fact that she was willing to date someone blue-collar indicates she had some strength of character, as does the fact that she stood up to Dillon at the country club.

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I doubt they got back together, however, the ending left that up in the air. David's decision to not declose his religious background did cause some major bigotry to rise up amongst his classmates. And Sally was none too pleased because she had to deal with the insulting comments regarding her short lived romance with David. In fairness to Sally her issue with David was the fact that he lied to her. Perhaps they could've gotten back together if her feelings for him were strong enough to get past his deception. I liked that the movie presented a realistic portrayal of the times (1950s) and the upper class Christian boys attending St Matthews Prep School. They didn't hate Jewish people to the point of wanting them dead but they have a major dislike for them.
Now let me add that in fairness to their extreme negative attitude towards Jews, St Matthews was a Christian school. And given that these are high school kids they are still maturing albiet with some stinking thinking.

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There was no chance that they got back together. She was, sadly for her, a product of her home life. There was a line during the pool scene in which David says something to her and she stands there looking longingly at him and says.." I know". She was a young girl that was more concerned with peer pressure and family pressure than allowing her mind and heart to rule. In todays world, while sadly, there still exists many various prejudices, Sally might have had the strength to do what SHE FELT was right. In the time period that this film is set the family was still the truly dominant force in a teenagers life. The teens in the film were obviously affected by their upbringing...their parents were the ones that set the example for them and the teens weren't strong minded enough to think for themselves...YET.

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I think she would have found a way to sneak around with him. The attraction was too strong. However, that's not how the movie was played out.

In the end I really just was wondering if HE would ever forgive her. I doubt it. Men can usually shut off their emotions when rejected for such a stupid thing. Women can't, that's why I think she would have stayed with him.

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I think the only attraction between them was good looks and David's dancing ability. (Actually I don't think Sally's looks were exceptional at all so I don't know what all the hoopla was about.) David being QB didn't hurt. But they had nothing in common. Their relationship was shallow. I don't think they would have lasted long even if David wasn't Jewish.

Sally was selfish. Even though Charlie Dillon was a poor excuse for a human being, I did not like the way she openly rejected him at the restaurant. She obviously hadn't protested Dillon's possessiveness before so, arrogant though he was, the sudden and rather mean public denial was naturally news to him. If she was a decent person, she would have pulled him to the side for a quiet talk instead.

At the end of the movie, I thought David didn't suffer any great loss with her and that he could and would get someone much nicer in the future.



~"Chris, am I weird?"
~"Yeah, but so what? Everybody's weird."

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Well, I can actually see why the attraction happened - Sally was nothing like the Scranton girls David was used to, whereas David was nothing like the rich and conceited guys Sally was used to. Sometimes a new kind of person can be really attractive. I do agree that they had nothing in common and their relationship, even if David weren't Jewish and nothing was in the way, probably wouldn't last very long.

I don't agree, though, that Charlie Dillon's possessiveness had not been protested before. Sally might well had told him that she did not view him as anything more than a friend, but he would not take no for an answer. However, you are right that she should not have rejected him so openly in the restaurant - maybe a more subtle "I would like to spend a little more time with David now, can I get back to you in a while?" would be better (it would still make Dillon jealous, but perhaps his feelings wouldn't be hurt as much.)

I think by the end of the movie David all but forgot about Sally, as he had to deal with more pressing problems.

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A couple of people have said David "lied" to Sally in this thread - as she accused him in the movie and some of his classmates too. What was the lie? Nobody asked if he was Jewish so he didn't lie about that (and, as some of his classmates came to realise, it wasn't what mattered about him anyway). He didn't speak up against the slurs when he should have but that isn't really the same thing.

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Well, to Sally and other prejudiced people, being Jewish was more about having some kind of problem than about having a different religion. To them, being Jewish was something akin to being an ex-con, or having some venereal disease, or having some other handicap. So, to them, hiding that he was Jewish was a lie because it put Sally and his classmates in a position when they were on good terms with him while not knowing his handicap.

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True - though she does say he wasn't the first Jewish boy she ever met. I wonder if she means "...Just the first one I fell in love with, cos I didn't know you were"?

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I think the intention with Sally's portrayal simply was that she was a shallow and mean person. As someone said before, even though Dillon wasn't the nicest guy (but then again, this happened before he started to act like a prick), the way she blew him off was really at the wrong place, in the wrong time. Then she cared more about her "friends" silly jokes and opinions before David. My take is that the reason why they did not get back together in the end was because she didn't deserve a guy with a good heart.

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I don't think of Sally as mean, per se...just shallow, and very much a product of her environment. To me, the worst thing she did was not the rejection of David, which was clearly driven by her family and friends. The worst thing was her treatment of Charlie. Within the context of the film, we never see her express in anyway that she isn't his girlfriend. She goes to the dance with him, and goes to the after-game dinner with him. He's clearly been calling her his girl for sometime, and she's said nothing...if she had, it wouldn't have been such a surprise when she told him off at the party. The way she handled that was just dead wrong, and I can't say I blame Charlie for being pissed off about it.

Here's to the health of Cardinal Puff.

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Well, I think Sally told Charlie Dillon off many times before the party. But she couldn't completely stop talking to him, since their parents were close friends. So, they grew up together, they attended the family functions together (that includes the after-game dinner), and apparently Charlie developed feelings for Sally but those feelings were not returned. Charlie, however, did not take no for an answer and still assumed Sally was his girl. When confronted with the situation when Sally clearly preferred another guy to him, Charlie got pissed off. Quite understandably.

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Something to consider. This took place circa 1955; only ten years removed from WWII. Anti-Semitism was pretty pervasive. A girl from a privileged family dating a Jew would not have been allowed. Remember Dillon's speech to Greene when they are sitting on the dock after McGivern's breakdown, "The right schools, the right connections. They give us the keys to the good life and we better hope we like it. None of us goes out on his own".

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I think it was wrong of the film-makers to blame the female character for not wanting a inter-faith relationship/marriage. Believe it or not, most women care about spiritual compatibility and desire to raise her children in her faith. The film makers have a slightly misogynistic view of women, in that, the horny guy wants to hook up with the blonde girl without being honest with her or interested in their long term compatibility. Men have a tunnel vision when it comes to sex and attraction, in that men only think of women by physical traits. But I think that if a guy truly wants to marry a girl, then he would be willing to convert and raise children in her faith.

Inter-faith marriages can work, but usually one spouse is not devout. In many cases, inter-faith marriages have a lot of friction if both are devout to different religions, and are unwilling to convert.
Especially in School Ties, where Brendan Fraser is actually trying to deceive his girlfriend by lying about his religion. Its disrespectful of him to use her without being honest about who he is.

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He was gorgeous and sweet and intelligent and kind. She was plain and vapid and dumb as a box of rocks. How did he "use her" ? They kissed once, she kissed him on the cheek, and he tried to kiss her a second time.He was hurt enough by her rejection (refusing to speak to him on the phone) to go to her school and find out what was wrong.If he hadn't cared, he wouldn't have bothered.Charlie did not "admit" to being a Methodist until David asked him so wasn't he "hiding" too?
I would hope that David steered clear of the "Sallys" at Harvard and found a nice Jewish girl because too many Jewish men marry gentile women,give up their faith for hers and raise the children Catholic or Protestant and Judaism needs to grow, not become extinct. G_d bless women like Drew Barrymore ! We really need to clone her.


"I say,open this door at once! We're British !"

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Well, I was just saying all men just think with their "johnson" and never take into account their own religion or the religion of the girl - and just because a girl is blonde or attractive, then she is then worth dating, marrying, or just hooking up and having sex. Men don't want women to judge them if they are the "wrong/different" religion, but a man will judge a woman based on her physical appearance.

I think the movie is about David "hiding" or pretending he is not Jewish in order to fit in with the Christian WASPy classmates. In that period of time, Catholics were also segregated and discriminated against in schools and society, hence all the catholic private schools. So I think its weird to just focus on the lone Jewish student or anti-semitism, when there was certainly a lot more racism being faced by Black students.

As for David's love life, I think a gentlemen should never deceive a girl about who he is, especially if he is hiding his religion. I can't say he should only marry a Jewish girl, or that Jews should only marry other Jews. But I think for an inter-faith marriage to survive, then both spouses have to accept each other's different religions.

But your statement that Jewish Men should only marry Jewish Women is ironic because the movie focuses on integration between Jews and Gentiles - but you are implying that Jews need to segregate themselves when it comes to dating and marriage. Instead of pursuing inter-faith marriages that may weaken the Jewish faith.

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It's just my own belief based on personal experience.I would not presume to tell others who they should or should not marry.
I also did not feel that David and Sally were anywhere near getting married.They were both still in school, planning to go to college,etc.


"I say,open this door at once! We're British !"

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I agree that there is often a level of comfort marrying someone of the same religion, race, or ethnicity. But I think as a truly integrated society, we have to support inter-faith and inter-racial marriages. We can't truly say that our society is open-minded and welcoming of all races, and religions, when we are unwilling to let race or religion put up borders on who we date, marry, or befriend.

I don't know if they would marry, but in the 1940's and 50's there was still a very conservative mindset with regards to sleeping with one person for eternity. Even Kissing and Courting was very restrictive.

But as for the movie, David's love life follows that of a Jewish Man wanting to marry/date a Blonde non-Jewish Christian WASP, without wanting to face prejudice. I think this can be a fantasy of some Jewish men, who want to date/marry the Blonde Shiksa, in their schools and towns.

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All good points. I just think it was a shame that he was so willing to settle for the first one he had presumably met/known,when someone who might have loved him more and cared less about others might have been somewhere up ahead as his life went on. He was only a high school senior. He had time.

"I say,open this door at once! We're British !"

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Well, I think the movie was just focused on "anti-semitism from rich WASPS" in the 50's - so the lead character had to meet a WASP blonde girl and then deal with the "anti-semitism in dating gentiles."

The movie is about a Jewish male conflicting with rich wealthy snobs, so that he could go to Harvard and become "rich and wealthy."

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