Whats the point of this film?


Ok...I love films, and I REALLY love Brad pitt, but after watching this movie, I was left with the overwhelming feeling of "so what"? so I came to IMDb to see what you all thought, and I found nothing but positive comments. Did I miss something? I just felt there was no point to making this film, it didn't say anything. A man has 2 sons, ones a bit wild, ends up dead, the other is sensible...etc etc. I really wanted to like this movie cos I'd heard so much about it, but it left me feeling empty. Whats the underlying theme/message?

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umm how could u miss the religous undertone throughout the entire movie. I think the speech at the end sums it up metaphorically but its up to u to figure out what he means

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I've got one question... "He fixes the cable?" If you recognize this then you have good taste my friend.

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Exactly. Put perfectly. Anyways, I'm just gonna go find a cash machine.

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Um...What?


In this world theres two kinds of people my friend, those with loaded guns and those who dig

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The Big Lebowski

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I was under the impression we end life by becoming putrid & decaying. That's the verifiable reality many people are afraid to face.

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[deleted]

A River Runs Through It is a film based on Norman Maclean's classic novel recounting the story of his family. A recurrent theme in the movie is "God is Love," which can be seen printed on the wall behind reverend Maclean in the church scene at the start of the movie. At the end of the movie, when Reverend Maclean is giving one of his last sermons, he mentions that one does not need to understand another person completely in order to love them, that you can love completely without complete understanding. This is important because it shows that his love for his son Paul transcends the father's inability to comprehend the reasoning behind his son's unreasonable addiction to gambling. Also, note how in the last scene with Norman fishing alone as an old man, he thinks "Now, most of those I loved and didn't understand in my youth are dead, but I still reach out to them."

The significance of fly fishing and rivers is tied to the Maclean's remembrance of spiritual communion during fishing, and the connection between the brothers and their father in their mutual love of the river and fly-fishing and immersing in nature. Also, the recurrent invokation of Wordsworth and the romantic poets is important in showing how reverend Maclean instilled a love of nature and poetry and beauty akin to his own in his son Norman. For Wordsworth, childhood and youth are the most important and beautiful times in life - for Wordsworth almost all of the muse for his poetry comes directly from his memory of being and immersing into nature and the beauty of the natural world while he was a child. This is significant in A River Runs Through It, as is shown by the costant flashback to the boys youth and how the things they loved and that tied them together as they were children - fishing, religion, reading (or learning to read and write) - remain as impenetrable bonds throughout their lives, and for the elder Norman Maclean, beyond death. Both Norman and Paul became writers, and both loved fishing as their father had for their whole lives.

Anyway, this is one of my all time favourite books and movies. It fills me with a sense of the beauty in life and behind life that transcends so much of the tragedy that inevitably occurs.

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very well put. I love this movie as well. the only way i think someone could not like it is if they just dont get symbolism and dont look at it from a deeper perspective. perhaps you should try watching an action movie or a comedy.

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[deleted]

Thank you for such a beautifully written posting, I have now been inspired to watch the movie again.x

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yea taht f^c#in religous undertone is what ruined the movie for me cause i dont believe in god. it would be more meaningful if they left the religous nonesense out of the movie and focused on reality. The theme should have reflected the strong connections humans can make especially families. then the movie should have explained how when people die they live on (in an intangible sense) through people they touched.

see what i just said actually makes logical sense. anytime a movie brings god into the picture it becomes illogical.

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quit *beep* whining about what you don't like. Did the Godfather not suit you because you are predisposed against the use of a Catholic word usage??? It was all about who Micheal Corleone touched (in an intangible sense). Religion is imprortant in the context of this family for three IMPORTANT reasons: (1) heritage... Mcleans are Scott's, tough, talented writers, fisherman; (2) The context of their time... early 20th, their world was governed by rules both religious and governmental, "In Montana, it doesn't count as drinking unless it's hard liquor." Both brothers were always looking for a way to rebel against what they felt they were bridled into, yet they were always still trying to win the preacher's affection (played Oscar worthly by Tom Skerritt. (3) Morals... and Paul's walk along the line between what his family will tolerate and what they won't. (and he was always conscious about the line)

I am haunted by waters,

I dare you to make a good counter argument without playing the attheist card

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[deleted]

Ypu're an idiot Logjammin.

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good point. people want to learn how to believe in themselves, not god or some fantasy. i thought the character of the non-Brad Pitt brother was pretentious. redford sometimes put in prentious characters, i think to go along with his whole l.l. bean mystique. see ralph fiennes in quiz show. im also a fly fisherman too and i thought the fly fishing scenes werent really that dramatic. they should have shone more fish-fly action on top of the water.

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Man. I fly fish too which doesn't matter but I thought I would throw that out there because you said it too -- which had nothing to do with your post -- To say that the fishing scenes weren't that dramatic is to say the symbolism in The Godfather was just coincidence. Take the scene when Norman comes home from school, when he and Paul are on the river. The beauty and drama of Norman watching his brother fish is amazing! In no other movie have I been moved as much as in A River Runs Through It, Paul had become an artist. Norman saw this and cherished it, because his brother was on the path to becoming a master. You really need to watch the movie again and try not to concentrate on the fishing, leave that for a different time, and see the movie for what it was meant to be seen as.

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Did I read that correctly? The FISHING scenes weren't dramatic enough? I think you missed the point of the movie. Not to mention I don't think I've ever witnessed fishing being dramatic, it kinda defeats the purpose.

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l.l. bean mystique

LOL


I'll bet you could suck a golf ball through a garden hose.

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What are you talking about Logjammin? This movie is based on a book that was about a real family. Religion was part of Norman's life. Do you expect him to leave that part out b/c you don't like it?

All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing~Edmund Burke

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The movie couldn't be as good as it was if it didn't have the religious aspects in it. You'll find God.

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[deleted]

84% of the world is religous maybe only 16% should be made without religion and as for this movie being illogical it is actually a true store

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i'm an atheist and found enough reason to appreciate the movie. being an atheist is much more than simply denouncing god but to understand the reasoning behind him and appreciating that. correct yourself as soon as you can.

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The posting from blue2242001 was spot-on. Remember the movie was based on a book written by Norman Maclean about his family. To remove the "religious undertones" as you say would have dishonored the author.

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In response to Logjammin101- I'm an atheist and this is easily one of my favorite stories. While I don't accept the idea of god I do realize that I would be living a lie if I pretended that there is nobody out in the world that do believe in god. This is a story of some people who do believe in god- it isn't "selling" you anything but a story.

Take the rise and fall of the third reich, for instance- I do not condone racism, hate or bigotry- but I cant deny these things exist and as a kid found that book to be pretty interesting. It would be patently disingenuous for me to write off every book that in some way espoused ideas or ideologies that I don't agree with- and it would make my world a very small place.

Beyond that, Norman Maclean wrote the most beautifully crafted passages. Beyond that my family are for the most part Scotch-Irish, and I see so many familiar idiosyncrasies in the various characters. All in all this was a really beautiful short story (Novella, I suppose) and it was perfect to be made into the movie that it was.

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[deleted]

Excellent put blue22..., but in fact, I noticed all those elements while watching the film the first time. (In all modesty, I consider myself a quite observant watcher and pretty clever in terms of interpretation and watching between the lines.) Yet I agree that I don't see why this film is supposed to be so good. To me it is just too mild and toned down. Not that I need lots of effects and spectacular stories, not at all, I just think there are lots of other films with about the same themes that are better. Of course the fishing motive is quite original, but it doesn't really represent anything unique or does it in a uniqe way. Craig Scheffer and Brad Pitt do a great job in their way of showing how the conlict with their father is never explicit, yet all present. I guess that must be very difficult. 'Conflict' is an actor's main tool.

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I watched this movie on TV two or three weeks ago. A friend had *strongly* recommended it, so I took the opportunity to see it. I tend to find spiritual content even in works that didn't intend it... Yet, I'm at a loss to spell out what was intended in this. There was a message there from start to finish -- no doubt about that -- but it seems to me that what little of it there was could have been expressed inside thirty minutes. I understand what was said at the end of the movie...

"But when I am alone in the half light of the canyon all existence seems to fade to a being with my soul, and memories. And the sounds of the Big Black Foot River, and a four count rhythm, and the hope that a fish will rise. Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it. The river was cut by the world's great flood and runs over rocks from the basement of time. On some of the rocks are timeless raindrops. Under the rocks are the words, and some of the words are theirs. I am haunted by waters."
<http://www.geocities.com/aaronbcaldwell/River.html>;

Aside from this sentiment (and the enjoyment that comes with watching *any* reasonably well-made movie) I'm at a loss to gather anything significant from the rest of the story. Given the number of people who *rave* about this movie, I guess I must have missed something. (I feel like Elaine Benes after she saw "The English Patient" :)

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[deleted]

pitts character was interesting because he was alive. the main character was a useless bore and his sentimizing the river at the end does not make up for his wasted life. also, what the hell does the speech even mean, i mean really--dont give me english class metaphors or anything like that but how it relates to the guys' own life? (how he lived his life.)
comparisons to east of eden are poor--because pitt already had the favor of his dad while the main character in river did not, while in eden (and cain and abel) its the other way around.

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pitt was alive but so was norman. so normy didn't take the reckless chances pitt did; some might even argue that what pitt wasn't doing wasn't living — but being stupid and rash. but i don't think that's the point of this movie. i think one of the main themes in the movie was how people can go so wrong, how tragedy can come despite the 'purity' of their upbringing. norm describes his brother as something of a gift from God, but that belies less their religious upbringing and more how he perceived his younger brother — full of life, vigor and passion. on the opposite side of this coin these same qualities which can bring immense joy and pleasure also can bring terrible pain. if you grew up with siblings that were like Pitt's character, there is much to say about it. you watch the people you love launch themselves into a downward spiral, and there's nothing you or anyone can do about it. only unless they decide to pull themselves out can they get their life back on track. many times though, you can't help them. and if tragedy strikes as in the case of norm's brother, you live with a guilt for the rest of your life. shouldn't i have been there for him? what more could i have done? ultimately the book (and therefore the movie) is almost a sort of cathartic closure for him and his audience.

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quote 'Of course the fishing motive is quite original', how about 'The Old Man and the Sea' which won the nobel prize for literature as it served as an analogy of God, Jesus and the Bible.

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Thank you. This film is one of my favorites. It shows a seemingly simpler time but also makes you realize that it wasn't always simple. It is a beautiful story and a spiritual one. It always grounds me to watch this movie and realize the value of family versus all of the distractions life brings.

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[deleted]

"A River Runs Through It is a film based on Norman Maclean's classic novel recounting the story of his family. A recurrent theme in the movie is "God is Love," which can be seen printed on the wall behind reverend Maclean in the church scene at the start of the movie. At the end of the movie, when Reverend Maclean is giving one of his last sermons, he mentions that one does not need to understand another person completely in order to love them, that you can love completely without complete understanding. This is important because it shows that his love for his son Paul transcends the father's inability to comprehend the reasoning behind his son's unreasonable addiction to gambling. Also, note how in the last scene with Norman fishing alone as an old man, he thinks "Now, most of those I loved and didn't understand in my youth are dead, but I still reach out to them."

The significance of fly fishing and rivers is tied to the Maclean's remembrance of spiritual communion during fishing, and the connection between the brothers and their father in their mutual love of the river and fly-fishing and immersing in nature. Also, the recurrent invokation of Wordsworth and the romantic poets is important in showing how reverend Maclean instilled a love of nature and poetry and beauty akin to his own in his son Norman. For Wordsworth, childhood and youth are the most important and beautiful times in life - for Wordsworth almost all of the muse for his poetry comes directly from his memory of being and immersing into nature and the beauty of the natural world while he was a child. This is significant in A River Runs Through It, as is shown by the costant flashback to the boys youth and how the things they loved and that tied them together as they were children - fishing, religion, reading (or learning to read and write) - remain as impenetrable bonds throughout their lives, and for the elder Norman Maclean, beyond death. Both Norman and Paul became writers, and both loved fishing as their father had for their whole lives.

Anyway, this is one of my all time favourite books and movies. It fills me with a sense of the beauty in life and behind life that transcends so much of the tragedy that inevitably occurs."


I think this sums it up brilliantly. Don't know why there are 6+ pages of posts after this one.

In this world theres two kinds of people my friend, those with loaded guns and those who dig

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[deleted]

blue, you should have written and directed the movie instead of Robert Redford. I wanted to like the movie but I didn't get it.

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Norman Maclean's book is not a novel. It is his "family story". A classic? Not sure about that hardly anybody knew of it until the film. It is short about 100 pages.

The religious themes mean different things to different people. I'm not a fan of churchy people and the line about the apostle John being a dry fly fisherman was laughable.

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Hello.

The river represents one’s life. Take any river, trace it long enough, and one will eventually see that is flows into the ocean. Regardless of how jagged the river’s path is, it will always come to the ocean.

The ocean represents God. No matter what direction one’s path in life was, at the end of their life, they are embraced by God. And, according to A River Runs Through It, since everyone has their own river and each one of these rivers are embraced by God, in order for one to love his fellow man, one just needs to have love in God, because we all become part of God.

The Big Black Foot River is used as an example of this occurrence. As we are told in the beginning of the film, the Macleans viewed the Big Black Foot River as their family river, or their family’s life. Everyone has a river of their own, and the Macleans were just one example of this. Even though they never openly shared their love for one another, they all held God close to their hearts. And, according to A River Runs Through It, love in God is love in man.

Through love in God, one loves his fellow man. This relationship is eloquently shown throughout the film by the manner in which Norman looks at Paul. In which, instead of offering him help, he simply gives him a recurring look that we are suppose to believe represents Norman’s cognitive love for his brother through his love in God.

Yours truly,

Michael

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Wonderful comment.

I loved the story, because it was a story. I sometimes prefer when there isn't an "....oh! Now I get it!" plotline or climax, and thats what this story was.

I loved your river simile/metaphor(?) It was very well put.

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Thanks for the kind words.

What was your favorite scene?

Michael

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That's a nice interpretation, but I dislike the way you put it so matter-of-factly. Analysing symbolism and interpreting metaphorical speech cannot be formed into a conclusion that is a brute fact. The whole reason behind an author creating subtext and conceit in a novel is that it allows people to discuss one anothers various opinions. In future use phrases such as 'it's possible that' and 'the perspective I got was that', ok? cheers bud

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Aside from blue's comments, which were very well put, I'd like to add some comments relating more to the microcosms of the film.

In its basic form, the story as well as the film is about brother relationships. Whenever there are two brothers, there is always one who is conservative and one who is rebellious. This film is about the relationship of two brothers. The brothers are taught by their stern father the ways of the world regarding religion, nature, life, and fly fishing. Their father was a moralist (stemming from his religious philosophy). Out of all the subjects their father teaches them, they all share a common bond in their love for fly fishing. From an early age, Paul deviates from most of his father's teachings. Eventually, he does so with his deviation from the standard 4 count rhythm and "finds a rhythm all his own." This is of course symbollic of Paul's overall deviation from his father's teachings.

The film goes on to show Paul's choices and successes in a life that is seperate from what his father had expected of him. The film as well as the story attempts to teach a morality lesson, Paul being the example of what happens when a life of vice is lived (i.e. sinning) compared to Norman's life that conveys the life of a proper presbyterian gentleman.
Some foreshadowing is made when Jesse's brother comes to visit and the boys take him out to fish. The man has slept with a woman "Old Rawhide" whom Paul has been previously acquainted with. Jesse says it best when she states that "Why is it that people that need the most help won't take it?" Paul being a good example of this. This lesson is further conveyed throughout the story with Paul's jailing and his lack of credit at the saloon/casino outside of town.

Paul also tries to seperate himself from his family when he changes the spelling of their last name from Maclean to MacLean which has something to do with Scottish society, I'm guessing it relocates their ancestry from the Scottish lowlands to the highlands, possibly in an area of nobility (Montana, possibly because of its resemblance to Scotland, is home to a largely Protestant, Presbyterian Scottish ethnicty. It is possible that to make good with higher ups (such as in his workplace or people he had common dealings with))Paul wanted to make himself look better to others in the community, which would have been a disgrace to their family, namely their father.
**I'm sorry this is so long, there is much to say about this movie**

To appreciate this film, it might help to think of the movie in this way:

Two brothers, both polar opposites, their only bond is fly fishing, both with themselves and their father. Paul admires Norman for getting his college degree and for living the straight life that he does. Norman admires Paul's ability to rebell against his father and the world in general, while at the same time loathing him for it. Their father loves both boys, but respects Norman for his success, education, and morality while respecting Paul for his mastery of fly fishing. It was Paul's mastery of fly fishing that made all of Paul's negative attributes disappear. Paul was better at fly fishing than either Norman or his father, which demanded their respect. Because of his mastery, both considered Paul perfect, he had a talent that could not be matched. Even with all of Norman's success, he felt like he was in the backdrop of Paul's successes, however limited they were (meeting the president, being the fly fishing reporter for the county). Paul felt the same way about Norman, like he was in the backdrop behind Norman's ivy league education and upcoming professorship in Chicago.

Both boys attained their father's respect in their own way, which made them opposites. Their one unity was fly fishing. With the breaking of Paul's hand near the end of the movie, their unity was broken. Paul's mastery and perfection was destroyed. Paul's broken hand broke both Norman and his father. As in the end, Paul wasn't just a great fisherman, as his father said, he was beautiful.

If this is not helpful, reply to me and I can add further commentary. This is one of my favorite movies of all time, so there is no limit to my commentary.

Additional comment: Anyone else who has read the book "A River Runs Through It", did anyone else find Maclean's writing style boring/dull except for a few rare moments where his prose was incredibly insightful? Such as the beginning and the ending paragraphs. The middle of the story just seemed rather dry. Maybe was this his father's writing style? Maclean was educated at Dartmouth, so I cannot fault a lack of education. Any comments would be appreciated.

Think for yourself, question authority.

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I look at it a bit differently on the issue of the brothers, and the love of their father for them. I think the father loved Paul more than Norman, simply because Paul was beatiful. A beatiful, infectious personality, the master fisherman that their father loved. Notice at dinner, it was always a desire to hear the stories that Paul had to tell, to hear from him.

The Rev's love for Norman was more of a respectful love. Norman could be counted on to be "good" in comparison to Paul. Norman rarely disappointed, and I think that lead to his father taking him for granted, rather than Paul, who disappointed on so many levels. Despite his disappointments, he always seemed to be the favorite.

In reality, I think of it as a twist on the prodigal son story. Paul is always the prodigal, going off, rebelling, and coming back only to receive the greatest of affections from the father everytime. I believe Norman resented that...notice his joy at being able to pick the right fly to make the first catch. A bit of a smirk, as if to be revelling in the fact that this time, I got him.

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good comment. macleans boring writing style probably came from the fact he was educated at such a stiff school. i thought it was an okay movie but was a little let down by the characters, because i think redford is a pretentious director and makes his characters too apple pie all-american.

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In this particular kind of movie, "point" or "concept" is not a big issue, I think. Thing is, it tells a GREAT STORY and we viewer are admired by that. Remember how we were told tons of stories when we were young? We could barely understand the point back then, but we keep those in our heart and it can never be forgotten. This is the same.

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i use IMDB constantly but have never actually used my account as far as making a post on any movies private forums such as this, tho i read them often.

the idea of asking 'whats the point' of this movie baffles me
what is the point of watching any movie?
damned if i know, i was never convinced there needed to be a purpose

i watch this movie becuase it makes me feel really really good. i guess i cannot truly verbalize feeling good but you can make your own inferences.

today i was discussing this movie at length with a friend, both of us consider it to be amongst our favorite movies, and one which we consider the most 'well made' in all aspects.

some of the comments in this thread are so profound that im blown away as i would be by watching this great film again.

as far as themes of relgion -- yes religion is an important element of the story. one of the main characters is a minister -- but i never really took it beyond that. i found that the themes of this story and the way it is delivered as a film are very universal or at the least non demoniational.

and i make that last comment beuacse assuming that an aetheist is remotely intelligent, then i consider aethism as a 'demonination' . their choice of what to (or not to believe) as far as im concerned has nothing to do with being intolerant.

i do not believe in a god, as described by any relgion, nor at all.

some people like to eat anchoives out of a jar, i do not.

what do i care for the other?
belief in something doesnt by default include intolerance for alternate beliefs.

and its unforunate to have such a quality, which you took upon yourself by your own volition, because it prevented you from enjoying this most masterful story.

it would be more meaningful if they left the religous nonesense out of the movie and focused on reality.


your comment that they should have focused on 'reality' instead of religion only shows the depth of your own ignorance. i cannot possibly fathom what movie could be more REAL (to me at least, and clearly many many others who uttery identified with it).

good luck with your 'aetheism'.

this is one of the best films ive ever seen, and ive seen a few.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

To me the problem with this film is that it doesn't work with Redford's style of direction. His approach is to let the story tell itself, in essence (of course, he doesn't, but this is how he frames it, to create this impression). In a film like "Ordinary People," this was critical, since a style any more subjective would have taken the story into histrionics and melodrama. We all know the Mary Tyler Moore character is supposed to be a bitch who's ruining her family, but nothing we implicitly see confirms this. As in life, it's a conclusion we reach without being 100% certain it's correct, but we understand how we feel and we have to do something regardless.

"A River Runs Through It" is, in contrast, such a laid back film that this style results in a long, rambling, seemingly pointless film. The cinematography is, of course, spectacular. The technique of framing shots as theough they were paintings is used very well. But ultimately, the film is as mobile as a painting.

If one takes this film's message as allegorical, its style of direction makes its meaning more puzzling than challenging. If it is not allegorical, its style of direction fails to transfer the sense of passion connected with fishing to the audience. That transference is not impossible, but it does not happen the way the film is done.

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Agree with style of direction comment to a great extent - the movie probably would have been aided by a more hand's-on style...

Note in re the Maclean respelling: since lowland Scots regard Highlanders as the equivalent of rednecks (hence Dad's dismay), I think Paul's action was just another rebellious act.

Seems to me the movie has several things going on.

The Scottish heritage of independence, individual achievement, rejection of privilege, self-restraint, hard work, importance of family, and education are all well-illustrated. This is the sociological theme. Since many of those traditions and values coincide with "American" values (especially at the time), this theme might not be clearly discernable by viewers - especially younger ones or those who don't know history very well. One point of the movie is to show these values and how they play out in the Maclean family. Someone above made reference to the "He was beautiful" remark as though it referred to Paul's physical beauty. I believe that interpretation is not totally correct - Paul's father is also saying that Paul embodied many qualities which were, to his father, of worth: Paul was independent, he asked for no help, he worked hard, and he loved his family. It was just a bonus that he was also Brad Pitt ;-)

Scottish Presbyterians are - as was their founder, John Knox - "common" people. Their beliefs rely much on Calvin (predestination) and, with this, the idea that it God has offered salvation because of His loving nature. God is Love because God has granted salvation; nobody is good enough to earn salvation - it is neither a right nor a privilege. To them, sin, unlike crime, which involves the breaking of human law, is a condition of the heart or an expression of that condition where one is estranged from God and fails to trust in God. This is the religious theme, and another point of the movie is to show how a deeply religious family with its roots in Scottish Presbyterianism operates. I believe it explains a lot about why Paul was not rejected for being, in some of his actions, a sinner. As noted above, he is treated like the prodigal son. In fact, this might be another point of "He was beautiful" because, given their faith, Paul might not even be seen as much more of a sinner than any other mortal.

Human contrariness is a psychological theme. Although it might be true that, whenever there are two brothers, one is a conformist and the other a rebel, I don't buy it as a general rule. There are two difficult brothers in the movie: Paul and Neal, and Neal has a sister and a brother. More to the point is that both these black (or in Neal's case, burnt red) sheep are loved by their families, even praised, both need help, and neither one will accept it. One point the movie has is to show how maddening it is to love someone who seems to be in trouble, but who rejects help. Norman's (and the rest of his family's) eventual resolution of the problem - as someone noted above - "you can still love them," reflects and joins the other themes, although it might seem frustratingly passive and possibly co-dependent to some viewers...in fact, my thought is that people who find this movie "pointless" are expressing their dissatisfaction with its resolution.

As for fly-fishing, while I've no doubt it was a real activity engaged in by all male Macneals, its primary use in the book and the movie, as with the river, is metaphorical. I wouldn't worry about its technical presentation over-much. I found the metaphor most clearly illustrated by the fact that Paul risked his life to catch the Biggest Trout, right before he was beaten to death.

Respectfully submitted :-)
An atheist and humanist

"The truth is out there - the lies are in your head." - Terry Pratchett

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I just wonder if anyone has ever thought about the simple family issues involved in this film. You have the two brothers, beautifully acted by Pitt and Sheffer, competing somewhat at first. Then they form a bond once going over the river together. One decides to stay home, the other goes off to college. Yet still their dedication to eachother remains solid.

Another point - For me, it's a somewhat a matter of college education versus real education. I'm not saying this is true, but sort of relates to the warrior versus educated man we seem to relate to Hamlet so often. Both are successful, both are educated in their own ways, yet one of them has to perish at the end. Yet the bond between the two brothers - and their mother and father for that matter - while they're still alive is that much stronger still.

This film is a true life story of what used to happen, and I would submit, still happens today. Families are broken, bad things happen - but what still remains is the family. No matter what happens. The family can grow (as did Norman and his wife did). Or the family can burn out (as did Paul's character did). That's just my take on the film.

Lastly, what I've heard is that Redford and his family were good friends of the Mclean family. Yes - Robert was attempting to do this film for a while. However, from what I've heard, Norman, right before his death, specifically asked Robert Redford and no one else to do this film. At the very least, this film is a tribute to one great story writer. It just so happened he asked Redford to direct it.

Please be sure to reply and give me your comments as well. Thanks so much for reading.

Thanks,
Shawn

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[deleted]

I think that I can share my two cents here and try to answer your questions. When whitnessing perfection Norman realized that at that time in Pauls life he was finally the one to be noticed and he was the once out of all three men closest to god. Even closer than their minister father. That is what I get out of that part of the movie. I don't know though that is the beauty fof these kinds of movies.

Being haunted by my waters simply means the water of the Blackfoot River brings back all of these horrible memories of his brother being adddicted to gambling boozing and the lesser of the three devils fly fishing. Every time he goes back to those waters he realizes what he has lost in life.

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Couple of thoughts...from a Reformed Presbyterian perspective, one can see perfection as a bit of an esoteric place if you will, where art and life meet with God's grace and reflect it. In that final fishing scene, Paul makes himself available and vulnerable to the conditions of the river, the pulling of the great fish, and simply goes "along for the ride." He is blessed with the joy of the catch and pleasure of creating and celerating that moment in the presence of his father. Paul was fortunate enough to be in that place, at that time, and had worked on his fishing skills for years. When preparation met opportunity, Paul is the gracious recipient of a beautiful moment that clearly touches both father and brother, a moment of "perfection" if you will.
I tend to think Norman is haunted by waters given the river is a metaphor for his life and experiences, and those have brought him his greatest joys along with his sorrows (the memories of his brother and the time they didnt get to share later in life, the passing of his parents, and the memories of his wife as well and how their early romance will always be tied to those Montana river days of his youth and early adulthood.)
A beautiful movie which never fails to move me and bring me to peaceful contemplation about some of the big issues of life. Mark Isham's score is key to this movie as well, and can stand on its on as a great piece of art.

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