interesting movie, keeps u interested. what i dont understand is how can anybody, who is mentally normal, love or live with somebody who says that he/she doesnt want u, who mentally tortures u or who humiliates u in front of ur friends. i dont think anybody who is in his/her right mind would love such a person, like emmanuele seigner did.
shareIt's human nature.
If we were given love and sexual satisfaction beyond anything we have ever experienced and didn't notice or didn't want to notice the point in which our loved one's feelings started to change all we remember and desperately want is the "good days", the happiness we once had. It's hard to comprehend the rejection given the fact that someone was not so long ago happy and in love with us so we cling to the memories and an illusion that if we do this or that the relationship will be wonderful again. We look for faults within ourselves and try to "improve" till we realize there's no cure for the death of love. So we go on loving the one we simultaneously hate till there's enough passage of time to forget or if we meet someone else we can work those emotions through and heal our wounds. Often the first relationship after such crushing experience is the exact role reversal.
Mimi's reaction was a reaction of someone who suffered unjustly and the only way she could deal with it was by making Oscar suffer equally unjustly. However, it didn't give her pleasure in the long run but made her suffer even more. No matter what she did their love was irreparably destroyed.
Watch "The End of the Affair" based on Graham Greene's novel in which he explores similar dynamics. There's a scene in which the priest pities the main character who lost the woman he loved and excuses his anger because "the poor man is in pain". Bendrix responds: "No Father. I'm in hate".
I am impressed by ur argument, though I think people who have a very low self-esteem, had a bad childhood and/or are desperately in need of affection only would act or react the way Mimi did. I just cannot imagine a more sensible person behaving that way. Degrading urself for love or for somebody is beyond my understanding, and I get very angry at people who degrade themselves for boyfriend or girlfriend.
I will try to watch The End of the Affair, reading Graham Greene would be difficult!! By the way, just out of curiousity, what did u study in college and are you a graduate? I am asking this because I am impressed, plus I wish I had such insight and the ability to project my thoughts.
Thanks for your compliment. It's not college but "mileage" and interest in people I can credit for my insight. It's theory versus practise and indeed, experience gives us a better understanding of life.
I studied English language and literature in college hence my G. Greene recommendation. His books added another perspective to relationships between people. Greene is not difficult at all, just mature and complex. I must confess though I started relating to his work after a certain age and considerable life experience. As a young adult I, too, considered him quite impenetrable :) Dare and read him or wait till you feel "ready", when you suffered enough to relate to his characters. Interestingly his leading male characters are usually very cynical and selfish, just like Oscar. I love the brutal honesty, the way he pitilessly strips them out of pretenses and coldly exposes their weaknesses. I noticed this particular parallel to Greene in Bitter Moon's rendering of Oscar's character.
I think people who have a very low self-esteem, had a bad childhood and/or are desperately in need of affection only would act or react the way Mimi did.
I don't think such behavior is a matter of low self esteem or bad childhood. It can happen to the most "normal" (whatever that means lol) people. Deep, obsessive love makes us put our pride aside especially when we think we are fighting for a good cause. We always find explanations and excuses for the actions of the other person. The reality is distorted; I'm quite convinced that a mix of hormones and brain chemicals released in such emotionally intense and stressful moments affects our mind---"we are not thinking straight". It's similar to drug addiction. Some people self destruct because they are unable to kick the habit.
Also, once desperately in love we don't see ourselves the same way everyone else does. It's always easy to judge being on the outside; when we are on the inside we often can't or refuse to see ourselves objectively. Then years later we look back and think: "How could I stand this or put up with such behavior".
Nothing is degrading when two people are in love(I think Oscar said it at some point to Nigel), only when love and respect is no longer there what was once intimate becomes humiliating. When they were a couple they did all sorts of humiliation and s/m role play. He begged her on his four. At one point Oscar remarked that he was getting bored and seeking more and more kink to spice up their sex life. For Mimi it was an expression of total sexual/emotional devotion so later when sex and love was gone their relationship became real s/m and humiliation.
Human beings are perversely cruel and enjoy wielding power over another. We all have our moments of deliberate cruelty to the ones we love the most. Once Oscar's love evaporated Mimi's devotion and submission triggered the worst abusive instincts and hatred in him. Oscar was a cynic in love. Mimi was young and idealistic believing in "equality of love".
these days im avoiding any book that is remotely depressing or will make me sad. im not watching news too... the last thing i want to get is more sad!! i will read G. Greene, but maybe some other day.
today i read eat, shoots and leaves again for the second time, funny book but sadly not much help to me, as you can probably tell from my punctuations.
I agree that many times we hurt people we love most, i have done that and i still feel bad about doing it.
about putting our pride or self respect aside for love, well i dont understand it, im 32 and i should by now.
but then we all are different and behave differently so maybe for mimi her behaviour was right in her eyes. i just think putting ur self respect aside for love is just plain stupid and in the long run will harm ur relationship. putting it aside for job is fine!!
by the way, loved the line: 'steady on old man'. the way hugh grant says such lines is just beautifull, love that guy.
Yes, Hugh was perfectly uptight in a charming way lol.
I don't get depressed from reading or watching fiction dramas. It moves me emotionally, makes me think and reflect upon my own life and experiences. But you know....it's cultural...Poles have this saying: "happiness is just a temporary absence of pain".
these days im avoiding any book that is remotely depressing or will make me sad. im not watching news too... the last thing i want to get is more sad!! i will read G. Greene, but maybe some other day.
<quote>funny thing is that in my case, drama cheers me up more than comedy. maybe because of the broke up season. I think actually depressive is my normal state, there are people like that, I feel pretty uncomfortable when everything is happy around me.</quote>
I know exactly what you mean!
Just saw this movie and it's left me feeling disturbed. nyccoolgirl, your posts really helped sort out some of the thoughts. Thank you.
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I agree that this kind of behaviour is unjustifiable. Seen Dangerous Liasons?? The folks in that movie (a sumptuous feast) are aristocratic/bored and tiresome. When found out in the end they suffer for their cruelty. Similar stuff going on. I don't believe that The End of The Affair is a good example to hold against Bitter Moon. There's a lot of religiosity in Greene's work - Catholic Guilt plays it's part. Julianne Moore's character makes a pact with God and keeps her word, believing that she has kept the Fiennes character alive. (See Breaking the Waves).
In my experience - cruelty of the level applied by Oscar to Mimi is down to something wrong with the perpetrator.I really would not want to do that to someone. The guy is a struggling and wants a pole to p*** against. I've seen this often - but usually with low grade men with no confidence. I mean really, I do not think for one second I would still be around someone who had inflicted (or wanted to inflict) that amount of damage.
I have had one such relationship - I gave as good as I got. Eventually, the police were involved.
I don't believe that The End of The Affair is a good example to hold against Bitter Moon. There's a lot of religiosity in Greene's work - Catholic Guilt plays it's part. Julianne Moore's character makes a pact with God and keeps her word, believing that she has kept the Fiennes character alive.
You misunderstood the comparison written in the psychological context of sexual-emotional obsessive love bordering on hate. Greene remarked that love and hate operates the same glands, which we can see very clearly in case of Mimi. The reasons why Bendrix and Mimi were dumped by their lovers are completely irrelevant; it's the effect the breakup produced that matters.
And I wasn't talking about Sarah either but about similarities between the respective male protagonists. Here's my original quote:"Interestingly Greene's leading male characters are usually very cynical and selfish, just like Oscar. I love the brutal honesty, the way he pitilessly strips them out of pretenses and coldly exposes their weaknesses. I noticed this particular parallel to Greene in Bitter Moon's rendering of Oscar's character."
Although it's easy to detest Oscar for his emotional cruelty, his relationship with Mimi wasn't destructive till the obsessive passion and feelings for Mimi gradually wore off and he began to realize they have no future together. Oscar didn’t handle the breakup with kid gloves in order for Mimi to loose hope of them ever being together. It’s merciless but it had to happen eventually.
Mimi, on the other hand, was unable to let go. It's a situation when one person feels genuinely happy in the relationship because their needs are met and ignores or refuses to notice it may not be the case with the other side. She was unprepared and couldn't cope with a sudden loss. It's incomprehensible and pain can be very acute. It's quite different from a slow death of a long term relationship when two people can part as friends. What do we do if our partner doesn’t want to accept the fact we want out but clings, calls, stalks, begs on his/her knees and wants to please us at all cost and against our will? How long will it take till our respect and patience are going to give way to anger, resentment, guilt, disgust, disrespect and pure hatred? At this juncture Oscar became a cold bastard and later a cynical, impotent cripple.
I've seen this often - but usually with low grade men with no confidence.
It's what you would like to think, that you'd never be capable of such behavior. It happens to the most conventional couples but also with sophisticated, intelligent and confident men or women. Oscar wasn't a low-life with no confidence. Besides being selfish he wasn't a type who sits at home and watches his kids grow. Usually people can walk away from a failed relationship so it doesn’t progress to such torture and emotional abuse.