MovieChat Forums > Indochine (1992) Discussion > The cinematography is gorgeous...the cha...

The cinematography is gorgeous...the characters are not.


This movie couldn't decide whether it wanted to be a historical period piece on French colonization in Vietnam before the War, or whether it should be an excruciatingly boring romantic epic. I found the main characters to be hypocritical, and found Jean-Baptiste's character to be inconsistent. We're supposed to like him? First of all, he sets fire to a boat with two people aboard because they are opium traffickers, even while one of his own men pleads with him to save their lives. Second, he randomly chases down Lili's car and has sex with her while Eliane makes the driver wait out in the rain for them to get finished. Excuse me? Then, when Eliane makes really the only admirable decision in the movie (she has Jean-Baptiste sent away to protect Camille) he more or less b***-slaps her at a party.

What I didn't understand was the whole "legendary" romantic relationship that suddenly arises while JB and Camille are trapped on the cursed island. She's infatuated with him because he saved her life. (Note on the whole "live saving" bit: a revolutionary was shot whilst running away, and dying, collapsed on top of Camille, presumably knocking her out when her head hit the road. Traumatic enough, right? JB shoves the body off her and carries her into the nearest house. She awakens as he's wiping the revolutionary's blood from her bare chest with a cloth. There are many women nearby - and he's the one cleaning her up?)

Later, when he sees her in a work camp, the two escape and head into the vast unknown (a.k.a. the Vietnam Burmuda Triangle). His care for her seems platonic because hey, she's the daughter of Lili, the woman he was dating, and she's maybe 10 or 15 years younger. 5 minutes later, they exchange what might be called a "loving" glance with one another. 5 minutes after that, Camille is 9 months pregnant! When did this happen? We don't know! Because out of the whole 156 minutes of this movie, only 10-15 of them are devoted to the "romance." 2 minutes after this, the tale of their escape and "romance" has become legendary, and just as we're finally gaining some respect for JB's character, he's randomly arrested, along with his infant son. The three characters are dispersed as quickly as they were thrown together.

The problem with this film? It tries to fit too many subplots into one package. Don't get me wrong, this film is relatively easy to follow. It just seems like the subplots really are underdeveloped. Any of them could be films in their own right. If the film wanted us to respect the "romance," then it should have delved deeper instead of skipping on the surface.

Elphaba lives!

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I found the main characters to be hypocritical, and found Jean-Baptiste's character to be inconsistent. We're supposed to like him? First of all, he sets fire to a boat with two people aboard because they are opium traffickers, even while one of his own men pleads with him to save their lives. Second, he randomly chases down Lili's car and has sex with her while Eliane makes the driver wait out in the rain for them to get finished. Excuse me?


Characters (in film or otherwise) are complex. While JB was disdainful of the natives, he also was enamored with Camille. Like a right-wing white guy having one black friend who is "okay" in his book.

Plus, what JB and Camille had was a romantic relationship, while JB's relationship to the other natives was purely a professional one (colonizer/colonized).

Then, when Eliane makes really the only admirable decision in the movie (she has Jean-Baptiste sent away to protect Camille) he more or less b***-slaps her at a party.


While I don't advocate violence (esp. violence against women), Eliane's motive was certainly not admirable in the sense that she was more concerned on protecting her feelings (she liked JB and resented Camille's allure which held his attention) than she was about protecting her daughter.

5 minutes after that, Camille is 9 months pregnant! When did this happen? We don't know! Because out of the whole 156 minutes of this movie, only 10-15 of them are devoted to the "romance." 2 minutes after this, the tale of their escape and "romance" has become legendary, and just as we're finally gaining some respect for JB's character, he's randomly arrested, along with his infant son. The three characters are dispersed as quickly as they were thrown together.


The details are choppy because the narrative is Eliane's (who symbolizes France) and not Camille (Indochina). In fact, right from the start of the movie, it starts with Eliane's voice narrating. Even when Camille was running away through the countryside, we could hear Eliane's thoughts interpreting the escape. We do not see Camille's sexual relationship with JB develop, we don't see her training in becoming a Communist, because Eliane knew little of what actually happend between them, only a few facts that had become legend, and she imposed this with her notions of the emotions involved.

This movie is essentially France's nostalgia of the Indochine she lost. Eliane symbolized the empire, paternalistic and maternal at the same time towards the treatment of those colonized. Camille and JB are merely props to illustrate that point.

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The details are choppy because the narrative is Eliane's (who symbolizes France) and not Camille (Indochina). In fact, right from the start of the movie, it starts with Eliane's voice narrating. Even when Camille was running away through the countryside, we could hear Eliane's thoughts interpreting the escape. We do not see Camille's sexual relationship with JB develop, we don't see her training in becoming a Communist, because Eliane knew little of what actually happend between them, only a few facts that had become legend, and she imposed this with her notions of the emotions involved.


While I can understand what you're saying, I don't quite agree. The fact that Elaine knew VERY little of what happened between Camille and Jean Baptiste does not really explain the extremely choppy and rushed narrative when it came to their story, because if they had decided to stick with the realistic narrative, they would not have shown half of what they did in the film. Elaine would not have known the exact details of their escape, the time on the boat, the time they spent traveling in the bandwagon, what the birth had been like, what Jean Baptiste had been doing in the waterfall before he was arrested, etc, etc.

It's a good theory, but alas I think it more or less just comes down to some less than stellar pacing and direction. And let's not forget editing. Bad editors can turn the most promising movie into a mediocre final cut.


"I got Soul but I'm not a Soldier!"

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Just a comment - saw the movie just now for the first time for several years, and I think you're spot-on. Beautifully photographed, just stunning. But .. what the hell is going on with the story ...

It's you and me against the world, b4...

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I agree with the OP. I do feel their "love story" is rather rushed and choppy. Camille was young, innocent and romantic so she fell in love with JB at the first sight, I get it. But with that one encounter she immediately insisted on marrying him and then left everything behind to find him? And how could he fall for her that quickly? In fact, they exchanged that "loving glance" right when they met at the work camp. It's like, the 3rd time they met, but still, it's enough for him to also leave everything to run away with her. Isn't the whole thing a little bit too fast? It feels unrealistic.
And I was quite mad when he was arrested with the son, right when I thought they would be ok =(
French movies! Nothing gets solved at the end anyway!


"Looking for the right guy...while having fun with the wrong ones!"

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Let me dissect a little...

But with that one encounter she immediately insisted on marrying him and then left everything behind to find him?

She didn't leave everything behind, she ran away from the arranged marriage.
And how could he fall for her that quickly? In fact, they exchanged that "loving glance" right when they met at the work camp.

That wasn't loving glance! He was shocked from the cruelty of his fellow officer. And was stunned to find her among the slaves. What's he supposed to do? smile and wave?
It's like, the 3rd time they met, but still, it's enough for him to also leave everything to run away with her.

He's not leaving anything behind. He has nothing behind. Nothing but murderous co-workers.
He could never stand there and watch them kill Camille. He's not in love with her, but he doesn't like the murderous officer. And he's related to Camille in a way: 1) the shooting incident. 2) her mom is his lover. How is he gonna face Elain if he didn't help Camille?
whole thing a little bit too fast? It feels unrealistic.

It's not fast. The story is epic, it cannot tell you every little tiny detail, that would make a 5 hours film!

It does feel realistic! You just need real life experiences and pay good attention. You can't play balls while watching this film.

And the ending does conclude! It concludes beautifully!

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I love it!!! But then I wasn't trying to analyze it to pieces. . . .

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There is no resolution... and so what? Yes of course in American movies you (almost) always have a great and completely fake and artificial "resolution" at the end of a movie. They even make great directors change the endings when they're not satisfied with the real ones (I'm thinking of Blade Runner, in particular : Scott had to replace the original, brilliant but disturbing ending by a really soppy and ridiculous one because people wouldn't take the lack of resolution). Or else, they criticise it (I'm thinking of Mystic River, a gorgeous movie, one of the best I've seen, but yes, the ending is disturbing and no, there's no resolution).

I just don't understand the argument about resolution, nor about the characters. It's like trying to take out all the complexity and the disturbing elements from a movie. I'm always astonished when I hear my American friends complain about the fact that something is "disturbing". To me, if it's not disturbing at all, it's not interesting (or else, it has to be pure, brilliant entertainment). The resolution is there : we go back to the present, and the film ends during the conference which put an end to French colonisation in Indochina.

I've already heard people complain that they hated every single character in Indochine. None of the characters is perfect, that's a fact. They're real, complex characters, they are all a bit prejudiced, selfish, stupid or even sometimes evil. That's what most people are like in real life. I love this film precisely because it shows brilliantly all the paradoxes and complexity of a colonial world falling to pieces.

To a certain extent, this movie reminds me of Gone With the Wind. People may like Scarlett O'Hara because the way the movie is done leads them to like her and see her as a heroine, and yet what is she? She's a real bitch, she's prejudiced, selfish, manipulative, jealous... Rhett Butler is not really a "good" person either. And yet people love them. Gone With the Wind and Indochine are very similar in what they represent (the end of a way of life, people living on plantations, oppressing other people, who see their world come to an end). However, Indochine does show at the same time the point of view of French colonists, and the horrors committed by the French (while Gone With the Wind never shows the dark side of slavery). So, of course, it makes people less likeable, but it makes everything so much more interesting (not that I don't like Gone With the Wind, I like it even more than Indochine, but it does not have its complexity and honesty).

As to the fact that the love story is unrealistic... How many films are realistic? Jean-Baptiste does undergo a big transformation, but this could be explained : he behaved like an arrogant prick and was punished, he may have been humbled, he saw horrors there, he could also have been truly impressed by what Camille has done to find him, and the act he commits to save her is serious enough to bring them a lot closer to one another.

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I read the thread title and very first thread and it summed up EXACTLY what I felt about this movie, I watched it a couple of nights ago and afterwards said that I didnt feel emotionally connected to any of the characters. I felt I didnt really know any of them and certainly couldnt empathise with them.

Andy

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