MovieChat Forums > Indochine (1992) Discussion > The fate of Jean-Baptiste. (spoilers)

The fate of Jean-Baptiste. (spoilers)

posted 16 years ago by xxJeannettex
10 replies | jump to latest

I'm not really understanding the probability of his demise, or at least the timeline of it. I have a few questions.

So...it starts with the scene in which an officer comes into his cell, the officer says 'You're ready to talk', and Jean Baptiste replies, 'I have only one request'. Obviously, his request was to be free for one day to 'settle his affairs'. What I don't understand is, is that he was killed that following night, probably about 12 hours after he was released from prison. When Elaine went to confront Guy about Jean Baptiste's death, Yvette said it was the communists that killed Jean Baptiste because he 'sold them out'.

My question is, how in the world did the communists find out so quickly that Jean Baptiste sold them out? Who ordered his murder? Was it Camille's husband, the man with the glasses? And what information could Jean Baptiste really have given the officer in the first place? It's not like he knew much. When it came to the traveling communist acting troupe, he was more of a bystander along for the ride than anything else. Judging by the fact that he did not even speak Vietnamese, he could not have known any important secrets. He would not have really been worth the effort to kill, and if the communists had been behind his murder, what exactly was the point of staging it like a suicide?

Is that the way it 'really' happened, or did the French government kill him and then blame it on the communists? It just doesn't make any sense to me. It was not very clear and the direction and exposition when it came to this part of the movie was more than a bit muddled. It made no sense!

Anyone want to enlighten me? Input would be appreciated.

"I got Soul but I'm not a Soldier!"

[–] xxJeannettex 16 years ago

Come on, someone has to be able to answer this for me! I just rewatched this film last night and I'm not even slightly more aware of exactly what happened than I was the first time I saw it.

I'm confused.

"I got Soul but I'm not a Soldier!"

[–] Blueghost 11 years ago

Four years late, and many other replies later, here's my take;

I don't think the Vietcom believed that Jean had sold them out, but maybe they just wanted to silence him to keep him from talking, at which point he really would sell them out. I seem to recall that he freed up his lady friend, then they both stole away on a junk, and wound up with one of the travelling carnivals.

But he didn't participate in any sabotage or covert acts against the French government that I recall. When he got home both sides probably wanted him to shut him up permanently. However, I think it's heavily implied that the French government did it, and not so much the communists, though my memory is a little hazy.

[–] ailopi 16 years ago

"and if the communists had been behind his murder, what exactly was the point of staging it like a suicide?"
agree with you at this point. In fact, if the communists had killed him, they would "showed" everyone that they did it. Killing a French officer would gain them a good reputation among the poor indochinese people (who were majority of the population at that time) because those poor peasants did NOT like French people (or any white man in general). Making it look like a suicide absolutely makes no sense at all.

I've been thinking about this for quite a while, too. (This is a good movie, but, gosh, I hate when it makes me think for, like, 1 week after watching it =( ). I think he was killed by the French, but not the government (he might be useful for the gov. since they knew he had been with the communists for almost a year). My only guess is the guy who loved Eliane (isn't his name "Guy" or something?), he wanted to get rip of JB to make sure he would have Eliane. Maybe, maybe not. I guess I read too much into things :(

At the end of all that thinking, the only thing that makes sense to me is: my god, he's too hot to be killed like this =) call me shallow :))

[–] ednalyn99 16 years ago

Well, the gov't didn't officially blame it on the communists. They tagged it officially as a suicide. Which no one believed of course.

I'm also leaning toward the theory that it was the French that killed him. Which agency, I'm not really sure. It could be that French dude who was out for revenge against Camille and Jean Baptiste after Camille shot the French officer.

It does seem unlikely that it was the communists. If it was the communists, they should have shot him earlier, before he started talking. Remember, he refused to talk for the longest time. He only talked when he got to bargain for time with his son. I don't think the communists could have responded by killing JB that quick. They would need deeply imbedded infiltrators to know that JB was in Eliane's house in Saigon.

The only ones who knew JB would be there were those close to Eliane's circle, and JB's warden.

[–] enterdream2 15 years ago

I think you guys forgot/overlooked Tanh's character. He's Camille's ex fiancee. He's a communist hiding on a secret island deep in Ha Long Bay. Tanh took Camille and Jean Baptiste in. He ordered the others to protect the two and smuggle them into China.

If JB talk to the French, Tanh, the other commies, and the great hiding spot will be exposed.

When JB gave his word in exchange for one day of freedom, he's ready to betray Tanh. Tanh has knowledge of Lilli's properties, workers and coolies. He could order assassination of JB easily, if he didn't do that himself.
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[–] ailopi 15 years ago

That does make sense, they have the every reason to do that. However, I find it's hard to believe that they were able to immediately know that JB had been released (just for that night). Unless the communists' spies were too good and the French police were too stupid to accidentally let the information leak out.

Also, I've been noticing this. When Tanh was at the island, I find it very funny that Tanh talked to Camille in French, then JB came and Tanh talked to Camille and JB in Vietnamese. Well, normally, you don't speak french to a vietnamese and speak vietnamese to a french man. The other way around could have been much easier.

"Looking for the right guy...while having fun with the wrong ones!"

[–] enterdream2 15 years ago

I find it's hard to believe that they were able to immediately know that JB had been released (just for that night).

My theory is this: The French officers didn't leak the info. It was the people of Lili, Madame Minh Tam, and the housekeeper where JB died.

Lili doesn't know JB is in danger with the commie! So, she might have told Madame Minh Tam who's Tanh's mother. Whom might have commies in her house.

Shen, she saw JB. She might have told people in the kitchen who are connected to commies. She might have told Madame Minh and her people. And goodness knows who else she told.

Lili's coolies! There's a lot of them all over the plantation. They could have seen JB, and who knows which of them are commies, or connected to commies.

Mr. Emile's housekeeper! He could be a commie or connected to a network of commies.

The probabilities are lots!
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[–] ailopi 15 years ago

Madame Minh Tam was unlikely to leak the info. She did not approve when her son left home to join the commies. (She said if he joined them, he would not be her son anymore).
However, your theory about Lili's coolies makes sense. The fact is that most Vietnamese people at that time, especially the poor ones who worked at rubber plantations, hated their French owners and French people in general. They didn't mind if any French got shot to death, in fact, they were kinda happy with that. It's also true that at that time, many of those poor workers gradually supported commies, and help them to kill as many French people as possible.

Well, the commies might want to kill JB to make sure their hidden place would be safe. The French police/navy might want to kill him to prevent a scandal (they didn't want people to know that one of their men protected a girl who had killed another French officer and then they both ran away to the commies).
Poor guy, his death benefited both sides, he had no chance of living =(

This is off-topic, but as I re-watched the movie recently, I thought that the guy who played their grown-up son resembles Vincent Perez a little bit. That's interesting. Tell me I'm not the only one who thinks so.

Although this movie is quite melodramatic, I still love it!!!

"Looking for the right guy...while having fun with the wrong ones!"

[–] baeksu 12 years ago

It makes the most sense for it to have been the communists. When the French officers granted reprieve to JB, the communists would have assumed that he'd agreed to tell what he knew about the communist network.

The communists in that time were well-organized and had a powerful network. It's not hard at all to believe that they would have quickly known that JB had been set free.

It's clear that he didn't actually kill himself. The weapon and his hand were both beneath the bedsheets. Eliane had to pull the bedclothes back to reveal the pistol. There's no conceivable way that he could have shot himself in the temple and then neatly tucked his hand and the pistol underneath the sheets.

[–] xxAmsxx 11 years ago

I agree with what the above poster said.

I think it was definitely the commies. One day JB is in jail, the next day he's walking free, hanging out at the house. Plenty of coolies could've seen him over a relatively large window of time (JB could've been free as much as 12 + hours). Gossip spreads like wildfire! Once word had gotten to an actual communist, the most logical thing for that communist to assume would be that since JB was obviously out of prison, he must have ratted on someone to make that happen. Anyone with half a brain could put 1+1 together.

And don't underestimate what JB could or could not have known about the communist acting troupe. He spent a year living and traveling and working with them. He definitely seemed to understand Vietnamese very well, and presumably could speak rudimentary Vietnamese. He could've told the French government a lot of valuable secrets. The commies who were in charge, their secret headquarters, future routes they were going to take, people they met in each town, etc. It is pretty much spelled out in the previous scene, with Elaine's older gentleman friend speaking with a colleague from the navy. He basically said that JB knew a lot and could be a valuable asset to them, except that he was refusing to speak to anyone.

EVERYTHING WAS BEAUTIFUL AND NOTHING HURT.