Huge Plot Hole- Jerry Graf


All the times I've watched this movie I never thought of this. Jerry Graf has opened his own company doing the same thing. He knows where these stolen leads came from. He wouldn't be stupid enough to buy them. I'm no lawyer, but I'm sure he would know this would make him some kind of accessory to the crime. He knows these guys will roll over on anyone involved to save their asses.
Thoughts?

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Yes, he's an accessory. If they roll on him, the cops can get him for conspiracy, receiving stolen goods, and who knows what else.

That being said, none of that makes this a plot hole.

You are sin.

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I probably used the wrong term. It just seems the theft and who did it is the major point of the movie and I don't believe Graf would be that stupid.

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I'm sure Graft thought it'd be foolproof to have one guy steal them. But Moss had to get creative and essentially tell half the sales team about it.

You are sin.

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I probably used the wrong term. It just seems the theft and who did it is the major point of the movie and I don't believe Graf would be that stupid.


We know nothing about Graf, so what makes you assume that he isn't stupid and careless enough to do something like this? For all we know, Graf's financial situation is as desperate as Shelley's, and desperate people do irrational things.

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The LEADS are just a MacGuffin. Though more defined than most MacGuffin's.

Ephemeron.

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Ok, but wasn't the THEFT of them and who did it the main story?

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Not to me, it was just the device to get into each of these characters and how they dealt with earning a living, surviving, in a system that many times is unethical.

Ephemeron.

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Ok, but wasn't the THEFT of them and who did it the main story?


Not at all. It's actually only the plot point of the final act.

The main story is the working lives of these salesmen and what they'll do for a sale.

You are sin.

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I would say given the dysfunctional and unethical nature of this business, that stealing leads from one firm to another is not uncommon. But doing it by means of a robbery, a criminal offense, isn't. I do imagine civil suits run rampant between these firms.

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I cannot see "Jerry Graf" or "Graft" on the character list? Who are you talking about?

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I cannot see "Jerry Graf" or "Graft" on the character list? Who are you talking about?


Have you seen the movie? Jerry Graf doesn't appear in the film, but he's referred to several times.
Graf is the the owner of a real estate firm that is rival of Premiere Properties, the company that the four salesmen in the movie work for. He is apparently known to all the people in the firm and was once a fellow salesman who started his own company.

He's not the only unseen character in the movie. Shelly Levene's daughter, Bruce and Harriet Nyborg, and James Lingk's wife are all important in advancing the plot, but are only mentioned by the other characters or spoken to on the phone, yet never actually seen or heard.

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Mitch and Murray, the owners of the real estate company are mentioned all the time but are entirely offscreen. Let's not forget GGR started its life as a stage play so some characters are talked about but never appear on stage.

-- Mothershytter... Son of an ass!!

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I've saw it for a second time last night. I only noticed one reference to Graf uttered by Ed Harris at the start of the film. How many times did you notice that name mentioned?

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Off the top of my head..when Levene and Moss are in the restroom of the Chinese restaurant before they head to the office. Moss says that he has half a mind to go across the street and get a job. When Levene says he'd go with him if they'd take him. Moss says "You never know, I've been talking to Jerry Graf."

Moss then brings up his name when he's in the car with Arranow. This is after the speech by Blake and they are both unsettled and upset. Moss talks admiringly about how Graf had the guts and brains to start his own business.

Later on as Moss and Arranow continue their conversation, Moss floats the idea of stealing the Glengarry leads and selling them to Graf.

Near the end of the movie when Williamson realizes that Levene was the one who broke into the office, he asks him what he did with the leads and Levene confesses that he sold them to Jerry Graf.

So he's mentioned on at least 4 occasion that I can think of.

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Hey meathead, what you said isn't a plot hole. I thought about it too during watching the movie. It's just bad info & greed of the character jerry graff. He as not much of a known person in this movie acted like a fool or had been fooled.

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It's more an indication of Moss' lying. Moss keeps telling Aaronow how Graf is "doing very well" and making big buck$. If that were true, then Graf wouldn't need to risk theft, conspiracy and/or larceny charges paying Moss and an accomplice to steal leads from Premiere Properties.

It's just one more example of Moss being full of it.

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This is actually a good point. All of these players in the movie should have been aware of this issue. And this is not a trivial point to the movie; it is central to several key scenes and of course to the ending. In theory it would not be too difficult to "reverse-engineer" those leads. As just an example: Whoever generated the leads certainly would have a way to re-create the list (e.g. they would have a copy of the documents, or they would have notes from which they could re-create the leads); and then it would be simple work to wait a few weeks (months) and then call on those people on the list to see if they have been called upon. And the people calling these potential buyers would all trace back to Graf, and he would probably cut a deal and name the thief. Plus: If the list could be re-created, then is it that valuable anyway? Graf could call upon these customers, but he would run a big risk, and Shelley's company might call on them too, which would devalue those leads.

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johnrai's right on all counts ... BUT ... I think Graf is like the other characters, too crooked and dumb to care, and too caught up with how clever they THINK they are.

Graf likely figures he can work the leads with impunity - why would Premier Properties risk alienating the leads by asking who else has called them?

And even if he DOES turn out to have been the recipient of the stolen leads, he can pretend he didn't know they were stolen. Once he's "worked the leads," he'll already have the sales and commissions it'll be too late to take them back at Premier.

Once the information's out, it's like spilt milk.

Anyways, that's how I figure Graf would look at it.

(that's even assuming Moss was selling to Graf at all - maybe he cooked the whole scheme up to work the leads himself. Why work for Graf when you can BE Graf?)

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