MovieChat Forums > Glengarry Glen Ross (1992) Discussion > Was Shelley ever successful?

Was Shelley ever successful?

posted 8 years ago by Edward_de_Vere
12 replies | jump to latest

Many people have (rightly) commented that Shelley Levene is basically a sleazier version of Willy Loman in Death of a Salesman. This raises the question of whether Shelley was ever successful in the past as he likes to claim, or, like Loman, is his past glory a self-serving myth?

The fact that he's nicknamed "the machine," together with the fact that the office's only real go-getter, Roma, seems to have some residual respect for him implies that Levene was once successful. On the other hand, it's very hard to picture such a whiny, needy, and pitiful human being ever having been more than marginal at anything. Watching his wild swings between abject begging and false bravado, I can't imagine Shelley being very effective at selling except in a surging market where everyone is buying. Perhaps his glory days were just an artifact of a once booming real estate market where everyone was ready to buy from anyone.

[–] Sonatine97 8 years ago

There is a rather interesting interplay between Shelley and Williamson in the office at night just before the break-in (about 25 minutes in)

Shelley is desperate for the Glengarry leads, and reminds Williamson about the "sheets" (presumably sales performance tables). He quotes 87,88 and certain months of 89 he claims to be the "top dog" over all of them - including Moss and Roma.

Other than the 89 claim, Williamson doesn't dispute this; although this isn't necessarily proof that Shelley is telling the truth. And it's hard to say what year they're currently in as there's no mention for 1990 or 91. If we were in the year of 91 or 92, it clearly demostrates Shelley has been slipping down the leaderboard since those heady years of the late 80s

In the same argument, Shelley also points out that he realises how much the premium leads cost because in the past he (Shelley) has been the one to "generate the sufficient dollar revenue to buy them!"

But again, this is all Shelley-speak, and he could be embellishing his past performance to justify having the Glengarry leads from Williamson.

It is also clear Shelley was brought up working in a completely different management-style enovironment compared to "now". He keeps on hammering home how good he was at cold-calling back in the day; but bristles at the new management style of Williamson and the way he "marshall my salesforce!"

I think, therefore, Shelley is stuck in the past, and can't handle change; he was once the top dog, and now he's the old dog that can't be taught new tricks.

“When is old news gonna be old news?”
― Arnold Vinick (The West Wing)

[–] eelb 8 years ago

I believe he was successful in the past. The dates he gives for being "top man on the board" are all in the mid-1980's, which relative to the production date of the film, would make it 6-8 years ago. His past success is never disputed by Williams, who despises Shelly, and would no doubt dispute the matter if it wasn't factual.

I think Shelly lost his confidence at some point, the world changed around him, and his old school sales techniques didn't work anymore. Also there's indications there's been issues in his personal life that have helped to beat him down. He seems like a guy who went through a middle age crisis, and never returned to his former self.

The film seems to imply that the job is a young man's game. With Alec Baldwin's character, and Roma as the top guns. With the biggest losers being the two oldest.

[–] Edward_de_Vere 8 years ago

I think Shelly lost his confidence at some point, the world changed around him, and his old school sales techniques didn't work anymore

Given Shelley's personality, it's hard to picture him ever being successful even in a kinder, gentler sales world. Most likely, as you and Sonatine say, Shelley's personality changed as much as the times did. Perhaps years ago he wasn't as desperate, needy, and whining, so he could conceivably close a deal rather than repulsing the people around him.

[–] PreachCaleb 8 years ago

Given Shelley's personality, it's hard to picture him ever being successful even in a kinder, gentler sales world.

Not at all. If you notice, his personality is not like his sales technique. He's much more cordial, friendly, affectionate, polite.

Just like Roma. He's got a very abrasive personality, but when he was working Lingk, he was very friendly and open.

You are sin.

[–] eelb 8 years ago

A good indication of Shelley's now ineffective sales technique, is with the "sit" he has in the home of the young husband. The guy sees right through Shelley, and escorts him to the door in no time.

I've always thought Shelley, Aaronow, and Moss, spent to much time complaining among themselves and badgering Williamson. As Roma proved, maybe they should've spent more time talking to strangers in the restaurants and bars they frequent. They rely too much on the "deadbeat leads", instead of generating sales on their own.

[–] vladchan 8 years ago

I see the old Cadillac Shelly is driving as evidence he used to be top dog once and actually won the contest, but that was some years ago.

-- Mothershytter... Son of an ass!!

[–] Navaros 8 years ago

Many people have (rightly) commented that Shelley Levene is basically a sleazier version of Willy Loman in Death of a Salesman.

I don't think that's right at all. The Machine is not sleazy, but Willy is mighty sleazy.

[–] tolarrattler-imdb 8 years ago

I look at it like this. These 4 guys show the different stages of the salesmen in the company. Roma is on top. Making the sales. Making the money. Life is good. Moss is at the point of the salesman slipping a little. Sales are harder but they are still happening. Money is tight but still coming in. Aaronow is at the point where he is just almost making sales. Money has stopped. He was making the sales just a short time ago but now just cannot make one happen. Levene is at the bottom. Has not made a sale in a long time and is broke and desperate.

Given that I bet Levene was just like he said. On the top at one point. But he has cascaded down to the lowest rung now.

[–] SidekickinWhiteFury 7 years ago

If you listen to how smooth talking he is on the phone, several times through the film, I think it's safe to say he was successful. Why would he still be in this business if he hadn't been making money at it at some point?
Also, there was a time when he really was the top guy on the board.

[–] Edward_de_Vere 7 years ago

In a hot real estate market when everyone is buying, even the most bumbling salesmen could probably make decent money, or enough to get by. When the market tightened, only the most skilled closers could succeed. I suspect that Shelley's past glory days amounted to getting by in a market where everyone and anyone could close.

Partly, this is because Shelley Levene is almost certainly intended to be an updated Willy Loman. Loman also liked to strut around talking about his glory days, only to be reminded by his boss (just before being fired) that he never made nearly as many sales as he claimed even when he was younger.

[–] grvbhtt90 7 years ago

I would like to point to the scene where Roma asks his help to shrug off that lingk guy, you could see how effectively and efficiently he is able to assume a character-on a moment notice- and think on his feet. this should tell us that he was at one point, if not the best, a very effective salesman.

[–] kag2 7 years ago

Good point.

Also, Shelley had been there for years. As a salesperson, you either make quota or you go out. So yes, he had been at least a moderately effective sales person at one point, and for several years.