i find it a bit weird that dario argento had his very very young daughter in this film go topless in a scene ... it was nt even necessary to the story and kind of gratuitous.. not like i mind, asia's beautiful, it's just.. weird. maybe its an italian thing..
shareIt could be seen as gratuitous by some, but in context it contributes to the character: she has an anorexic's shame of her own body so she wears a very tight girdle to make her chest seem flatter. The scene of her removing it is a brief very vulnerable moment in the character development. Not necessary but a nice detail. I don't really even think about the father/daughter dynamic, even though maybe I should... but to me, it is a professional relationship, it is art. If we took unnecessary touches like that out of Argento's films there wouldn't be very much that was interesting left.
sharei somehow have a hard time considering his films to be art, of course pulp can always be argued. they're great fun and creative and i respect him as a master of what he does but c'mon he fashions trash onto celluloid..more Tinto Brass in there than Bertolucci. Surely there are other ways to showcase a character's vulnerability. I don't even know why I'm defending my argument, I think she's hot , but I can't help but wonder who suggested this scene.
int. kitchen - morning.
asia - hi papa how are you ,
dario - good darling, just enjoying my coffee,
asia - what 's the plan for today?
dario - oh, i forgot to tell you i revised the script so we can see your titties for a second and it will be in the name of art.
asia - like this?
[asia reenacts the yoghurt scene from bitter moon in front of dario, fade to black]
I really like Argento's films. And I believe his sensibility for the medium he works in is suprisingly sophistocated in spite of the genres he works in. I admire them on many levels. That said, just to make my intentions clearer, I didn't mean to use the word "art" as evaluative. I use it because I consider all cinema to be called "art" whether it be qualitatively high and fine(in your example Bertolucci) or low and coarse(eg Tinto Brass). Evaluative judgement can be expressed in other more descriptive words. If I ever make the distinction between commercial art and fine art or "studio art", nevertheless they are both art.
I do agree that there are other ways to communicate vulnerability. But, the movie is communicating that this girl is anorexic and she is vulnerable in very specific ways, not just generally. It's all about body-consciousness. It could have been done without nudity, but then, what is truly wrong with nudity? I still think the scene is, on second thought, purposeful, meaningful, and minimally exploitative. It may not be easy to accept the suitability of the father/daughter relationship, and certainly there may very well be an unwholesome dynamic there--who is to say unless we have a clear window into the minds of each and even then we may misunderstand. But I am equally willing to believe the nature of the conception of the scene and its execution was entirely professional, despite whatever emotional static may have surrounded it. The fact that she was only 16, well...Had she been 18--only two years older--, would we still question it? We probably would but maybe less so. Do we question it because Dario is male? Probably. Would we if he was female and made the same decision? Maybe, but I really don't know if we would, or maybe fewer people would. Would we question it if it wasn't his daughter AND 18 years old? I don't really think we would at all, there would be no question. It would be seen as a valid contribution to the entire film--given, of course, that we don't use the assumption that all nudity is gratuitous no matter the context. For me that is one way to look at it and I guess that test passes the scene even if his 16 year old daughter was the actress. Maybe I am too liberal.
I remember Asia in an interview saying something like her relationship with her father is unhealthy to think about. She mentioned sexual thoughts her father had.
"My father used to touch my butthole" - John Stamos
hey im as liberal ass them all... but it is strange no? i find nothing wrong with it, unless as the comment states above argento had some sexual attraction towards his daughter who was six bloody teen years old.
shareI am actually doing my masters thesis on Argento, and I actually think that he is just as elevated as Bertolucci, but that I also think it is intentionally exploitative. The idea of being forced to watch something has been an Argento discourse since his first film, culminating in the needle eyes scene in Opera. I would say that with this and Stendhal he is bringing attention to this and pushing himself as he has always used family members. It has been pointed out that his relationship with Daria Nicoladi has been mirrored in his films, going from love interest that lives in Deep Red to cannon fodder in Opera. His daughter has never died in his films, at least not Asia, so it is an interesting and I think a very subconscious dynamic with Argento and his daughter and not so much Italian as much as it really does warrant deeper understanding of Dario as an artist.
share
You need to brush up on your argento, she dies TWICE in Dracula 3D, and he also films her naked again, this time making sure her nipples are erect by pouring a jug of cold water over them before turnig to the camera.
Only those with no valid argument pick holes in people's spelling and grammar.
I grant you, I haven't seen a release for Dracula yet, sorry, I really am basing off stuff there is scholarly material on, so the problem with doing research on current artists is they are bound to conflict with arguments, but I still think the argument holds that he does allow his personal relationships with people to spill into his films.
shareUh, really, like Bertolucci made his latest films with a lot of philosophy in them, not simply to see young girls naked. He is very close to Brass now.
shareHe could have achieved the same thing by having her putting it on rather than taking it off. I don't object especially to the scene, I just think your point isn't really valid.
"Be wary of Wenk -- I want to warn you!"
She was 18...
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000782/
Asia Argento
DOB: 20 September 1975
Trauma - released 1993
----------------------------
Maybe it is an Italian thing but in the U.S., that's weird.
I wonder if her father's attitude had something to do with how she turned out.
Do a google image search on her and you will see what I mean.
I see what you mean, Asia Argento is hot as F. :D
I have got to see this movie!
She was 18...
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000782/
Asia Argento
DOB: 20 September 1975
Trauma - released 1993
As long as the director's not actually having sex with his daughter, I see no problem...
When I look up from my pillow I dream that you're there with me...
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Actually, Any sort of sexuality shouldn't exist between a father and daughter. Even the thought of it is a problem.
As for the scene it probably is just part of the characters development. If its not then thats possibly a reason for Asia's personality now. Although I don't know much about her.
and also she is very good looking, althoughh you shouldn't be looking at her at the age of sixteen if you're not somewhere around that age yourself.
P.S.
If you really want to see her without a top, just go to her website and look in the images section.
Actually, Any sort of sexuality shouldn't exist between a father and daughter. Even the thought of it is a problem.
Thora Birch was 17 when she went topless for American Beauty. Keira Knightley (sp?) went topless for the Hole when she was 15. In both instances, their parents gave consent, and were present on set during the filming of those particular scenes. How is this any different than Dario, as a parent, giving consent and being present during his daughter's first topless scene at 17?
I've been reading a lot of Argento books recently, and although his relationship with both Asia and her mother (Daria Nicolodi) is extremely complicated, he explained something along the lines of Trauma being written with another actress in mind. When she couldn't commit, he asked his daughter Asia, who was already fast becoming a young star in Italy. When she accepted, the script remained the same, topless scene included, and both Dario and Asia agreed that the scene was important to the plot (as noted above), and that shooting it would be an integral part of her development as an actress. I still find it a little weird myself... but they are Europeans after all. And please, let's not have any allegations of Incest. That's a very serious subject that should not be treated flippantly... let alone thrown as an allegation to a filmmaker who never showed any signs of such activities.
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If you find it disturbing that Argento filmed Asia topless in this then you have to see 'The Stendhal Syndrome' which features horrific violence and rape commited against Asia's character. Creepy indeed.
"In falling glass we fall to pieces."
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The first time I saw that, I was also very uncomfortable with the idea. But when I rewatched it, I noticed there seemed to be a point to the shot itself - she was using some kind of constrictor thing to keep her breasts tight against her chest. Come to find out, some women actually do that to themselves. So it was based on something real. And the audio commentary on the region 1 DVD mentions that Argento did it as a means to keep the audience thinking about how much pain / discomfort the character put herself through, willingly.
It's only disturbing when you don't think about it. And that's quite rare.
"Carol, one word of advice: send Cindy to a special school"