MovieChat Forums > Chaplin (1993) Discussion > Chaplin a PEDOPHILE?

Chaplin a PEDOPHILE?


Would you say based on Charlie Chaplin's appetite for much younger women - teenage girls actually - some of which he married...that you would consider him to be a pedophile? Was his relationships with some of these girls even legal (especially his first wife (played by Milla Jovavich) back then? It would seem as though Hollywood and the rest of America and the world was very accepting of - and well respected - him even knowing about his controversial sex life. Could it have been the times? Would Americans be as accepting of his well-publicized sex life in our times now? I would highly doubt it. I think he'd end up like Roman Polanski - a fugitive of this country.

This was taken from his mini-bio on IMDb:
He was 29 years old when he wed Mildred Harris; she was 17.
He was 35 years old when he wed Lita Grey; Lita was 16.
He was 47 years old when he wed Paulette Goddard; Paulette was 26.
He was 54 years old when he wed Oona O'Neill (Oona Chaplin); Oona was 17.

Just wondering if others were thinking the same thing while watching the movie.
Your thoughts?

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In those times, girls married very young. My grandmother was married in 1921 when she was 16. She had my aunt one year later, my father a year after that. My grandfather was a decade older.

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It's amazing how times have changed so much in the last 70-80 years (since the early 1900's).

If Charlie Chaplin -- or any adult male over 20 years of age -- would have had sex or married a teenage girl between 15-18 years of age NOW, in these times, even if it was consensual...they would be quickly sent to Prison to rot for years and would be called a Pedophile, a Predator, and a Sex Offender...forever looked at as an animal and branded these names for the rest of their lives. It would be on their legal record for life making it nearly impossible to find employment, a place to live, etc. They would also be considered sick and mentally ill by society as a whole. I'm not trying to say these actions (that being consensual sex with minors) are necessarily normal but back then in the early 1900's and even before then going way back in history...it sure seemed to be.

It really is amazing how society, it's laws and the justice system altogether have changed so much, especially when looking at this particular controversial and sensitive area.

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Yup, and my grandparents were married for 50 years and as far as I know, never cheated on each other. My grandfather was perfectly normal. The two of them would have gotten a good laugh if someone had suggested my grandfather was a pedophile!

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also let's not forget that the average life expectancy back then was about 58. Another reason people married early; they died sooner!

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Charlie Chaplin lived to be 88 years old...go figure!
and he died peacefully in his sleep on Christmas Day...lucky guy!!

you should read his mini bio on IMDb...there are some fun/interesting facts & quotes by him.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000122/bio


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right, that was unusual for a man of his generation, to live so long. My great aunt was born the same year as Chaplin. When she died in 1966 at the age of 77, I remember people being astonished that she had lived to such a ripe old age. Nobody today thinks of 77 as being ancient.

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[deleted]

Yes, he died at 88. He lived a better life than most. Also, back then, the infant mortality rate was much higher, bringing down the average.

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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also let's not forget that the average life expectancy back then was about 58. Another reason people married early; they died sooner!

Also, because there really wasn't much for women to do other than get married and produce offspring.

When you consider how the majority of his marriages failed, you can't help but think that he shouldn't have married teenagers (who were obviously starstruck or trying to take advantage of his money and station). And marrying them doesn't make it any better.

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"or any adult male over 20 years of age -- would have had sex or married a teenage girl between 15-18 years of age NOW, in these times, even if it was consensual...they would be quickly sent to Prison to rot for years and would be called a Pedophile,"
Wrong, the age of consent in many states is 16.

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jtf1986

"or any adult male over 20 years of age -- would have had sex or married a teenage girl between 15-18 years of age NOW, in these times, even if it was consensual...they would be quickly sent to Prison to rot for years and would be called a Pedophile,"
Wrong, the age of consent in many states is 16.



well what is the age of consent for gay males?

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"If Charlie Chaplin -- or any adult male over 20 years of age -- would have had sex or married a teenage girl between 15-18 years of age NOW, in these times, even if it was consensual...they would be quickly sent to Prison to rot for years and would be called a Pedophile, a Predator, and a Sex Offender."


Wait, what?

Where do you live, that a 20 year old can't be with an 18 year old?! Wow. Where I live, people can give consent from 16, so nothing he did in the movie seemed unlawful to me, although that doesn't make it "right" either. Heck, René Angelil has been around Céline Dion since she was 12 and he's not rotting in jail or labeled a pedo/predator...?!

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My grandmother was 13/14 when she married in the 20's and my mom was 16 when she married the first time.

Chaplin always carried a torch for his first love who was very young and I think that is why he always preferred much younger women.

I don't think he was a pedophile. The first wife lied about being pregnant so he would marry her and the second (with the aid of her mother) put herself in his space as much as possible. Then when they divorced; she took him for every penny she could. Joan Barry claimed he was father to her daughter even though blood tests proved that was not possible....he paid child support for 21 years.

None of them were innocent young girls...they knew what was going on and they took advantage of the situation also.

Brad...Whatcha gonna do? What are you gonna do?

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You're missing there point, though. In order for him to be tricked with either if those pregnancies, there had to have been intimacy first. It's that act with such young girls that makes it seem creepy too us, not that he married them or they ended up pregnant. Some would say that he "fixed" the situation by marrying them. But if they'd never gotten pregnant (or claimed to have been), he was still sleeping with them and probably wouldn't have married them.

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Got to agree any 54 years old who marries a 17 year old is a dirty old man who obviously doesn't have the intelligence or maturity to find love with someone his own age.

Lets not make excuses like "It was more common back then" back then women couldn't vote and blacks were second class citizens doesn't make it ok. Chaplin was a paedophile plain and simple.

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My grandfather was 52 when he married my 18 year old grandmother. She was his first, last, and only wife. They had five children between 1905 and 1918. My dad was the middle child born in 1912 and the only boy.

She was actually already a widow when they married, and went on to marry twice more. One time she said to my mom "Just because there's snow on the roof doesn't mean there's no fire in the basement." She was in her 70s by then.

BTW my dad was 36 when he married my 21 year old mother. He'd been married twice before, the first ending in divorce (that wife was close to him in age) and the second in the death of his 16 year old wife in childbirth. Mama was one month older than Daddy's second wife. Both were born in 1927.

My parents' marriage lasted until Daddy's death in 1975. They were married 26 years, a few more months it would have 27 years.

Imitation is the sincerest form of television.
Fred Allen

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You have got to be kidding.

He wasn't running around molesting little girls in their sleep, he was courting girls who had the careers and looks of full grown women. Being attracted to youth is not to be confused with being attracted to little kids.


I am Jack's IMDb post.

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He was NOT a pedophile. If you're going to brand him using 21st century mores, use the proper terminology, ephebophilia. And judging him by our times is unbelievable unfair. Things WERE different back then.

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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[deleted]

Really? What a coincidence, one of your lovers said the same thing about you! See how I turned around unsubstantiated gossip to make a point? I said you have had a lover! Which of CCs lovers claimed that? And I guess I don't have the imagination ol' Charlie had, but what positions "work only with kids"? Please cite your legitimate sources.

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A paedophile is an adult who is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. It may be morally wrong for an older man to have a relationship with a seventeen year old girl, but Chaplin was not a paedophile.

-
Lister: Drop dead, Rimmer.
Rimmer: Already have done.
Lister: Encore!
- Red Dwarf

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It is amazing how many people misuse that word.


http://learnyourdamnhomophones.com/ Learn your damn homophones.

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You can thank our media for that, because every time a 18 year old boy has sex with 17 year old girl all the television channels scream "pedofile" for a month.

---------------------------------------------
Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

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It does explain why we have the leaders we have, eh? They get to vote, too.

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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exactly!

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GunesFS

A paedophile is an adult who is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. It may be morally wrong for an older man to have a relationship with a seventeen year old girl, but Chaplin was not a paedophile.



*beep*

If a gay man were too do that he would cruxified for LIFE!




sweiland75

It is amazing how many people misuse that word.



its amazing how we have a double standard for straight love versus gay love!




razdamonas

You can thank our media for that, because every time a 18 year old boy has sex with 17 year old girl all the television channels scream "pedofile" for a month.





I do agree






jpm4444

Brigham Young was 48 and he was sleeping with a 14 year old bride;

Times were different then too; some girls got married at 13 or 14.




Yet if a gay man made love to a 13 14 year old boy he would be branded from life and possiably castrated



[quote]Look at the coal minors daughter Loreta Lynn who married as a young teen, not even knowing what sex was.

I think he had a thing for young girls; to be honest most men do.






then they need to talk to there wives! not little girls



When Anna Kournakova was smoking hot at 15 years old I dont' think those ratings sky rocketed to see what type of ribbon she was wearing in her pony tail.

It's easy to judge but society is as bad.





No your proably right but that doesnt mean its going to be acceptable. We have age of consent for a reason.




Polanski was much different; he was a perv that drugged a young teen to screw her; not to marry her.

Like J Edgar Hoover said, he marries all of them; he cant' get into trouble




there both pervs





WllmShakespeare

Well you can`t really consider someone a pedophile/pederast when they are sexually attracted to a person who is sexually mature which 16 - 17 year olds certainly are despite what the law says. Put it this way; If a gorgeous 17 year old person wanted to have sex with you and lied and told you they were 20, would you NOT be sexually attracted to them? You would be because they are sexually mature.



well some states allow that SOME but for gay love its 18

why is that?

In Great Britain they have lowered the age of consent for both straight and gay love at 16










beierfilms

Personally, I always find it a bit creepy when a very old man goes after a rather young woman. That said, there's nothing particularly shocking about Chaplin.

First off, let's not compare him to Polanski. Polanski drugged and RAPPED (force) a 13 year old girl. Big difference.



Doesnt matter his like Mary Kay Letruenau




Second, as others have pointed out, a pedophile is really someone who lusts after those who have yet to reach sexual maturity. Chaplin was lusting after young virgins but those who had reached sexual maturity.





that maybe so but his like putting his toe across the line! Again why wouldnt a woman satisfy him?





Finally, taking into account the times is important. Once again, I agree it's odd for a man that age the fact is that maturity is on a case by case basis and the age that a society chooses is largely arbitrary. In 2010, a 50 year old man can marry an 17 or 18 year old girl and no one bats an eye lash.



True but its still perverted for a 50 year old man marrying or dating a young guy who is the same age




[quote] 90 years ago, marrying a 16-year-old was acceptable. I really don't see how we can lambast someone for a difference of one year. Maybe in 2030, the age of conscent will be 21 and we'll look at anyone getting married under that as odd.





Oh I know but not for gay males there is that double standard.

I doubt it when we reach 2030. Plus i doubt it with gay love if the guy is 90 and the other person is 16 or 17




WllmShakespeare

A 50 year old guy marrying a 17 year old is really not creepy at all no more than them being friends. In the grand scheme of things age means absolutely nothing.





Oh yes it is. Why we have age of consent is becuase kids are not fully mature yet to handle adults things even if there bodies can house a child and give birth.





All that matters is being alive. People die everyday from the age of birth to 100. If someone dies at 17 does that mean they were middle aged at 8 1/2? Yes it does!


How so?





You can`t base someone on age because then you are guessing death which is foolish.





how are you guessing death?




People can die at any time. Yes a 50 year old has more of a chance of dying and has more life experience than a 17 year old, but that is just living life through pure gambling. The only thing that matters is being alive now. Johnny Depp is now 47, so does this mean if he wants to go out with a 17 year old he is sick?





If its the age of consent no but why would a 47 year old have the same interests as some younger? When your that age your reactions are slower and you begin to feel the age. Versus someone younger and all that.




He is a pedophile? Of course not. All that matters is if two people can connect and enjoy love and life together.. In 100 years, even 70 years from now, everyone alive today will probably be dead so what is the point?




The Point is there bodies are not fully developed and they dont understand about love sex intimacy etc etc versus someone who is alot older





Are you going to live in fear of something as ridiculous as age or are you going to live? I`m 27 and some of the most beautiful women I`ve ever met were over 50. None of this "I`m a Princess" *beep* or "I`m the next Madonna" crap. When you are up close making love, all that age stuff goes right out the window. I can`t even imagine the hell it must be having to deal with an a-hole like Megan Fox....All I get from her is her obsession with being hot. "I`m hot! I`m hot! I`m hot!" Yeah but you`re a bore honey so STFU.






well go find those people you like but for young age they dont have the maturity yet. The wisdom of old age the react instead of thinking.




Lord-Z

I believe that Oona was 18. And let us not forget, he married them. He liked them young, but he was nothing resembling a pedophile. He didn't rape anyone, they married him of their own free will. They weren't little innocent children, they were young women. He stayed with Oona for 34 years. In short, he did nothing wrong.

And a pedophile, in any case, has nothing to do with age-differences, it is about being sexually attracted to prepubescent children.







Oh yes he was! How where they not innocent girls? There is a reason for the age of consent. Since again girls AND boys are not fully mature yet.






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Brigham Young was 48 and he was sleeping with a 14 year old bride;

Times were different then too; some girls got married at 13 or 14.

Look at the coal minors daughter Loreta Lynn who married as a young teen, not even knowing what sex was.

I think he had a thing for young girls; to be honest most men do.

When Anna Kournakova was smoking hot at 15 years old I dont' think those ratings sky rocketed to see what type of ribbon she was wearing in her pony tail.

It's easy to judge but society is as bad.

Polanski was much different; he was a perv that drugged a young teen to screw her; not to marry her.

Like J Edgar Hoover said, he marries all of them; he cant' get into trouble.

I think you are way off base.

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[deleted]

Personally, I always find it a bit creepy when a very old man goes after a rather young woman. That said, there's nothing particularly shocking about Chaplin.

First off, let's not compare him to Polanski. Polanski drugged and RAPPED (force) a 13 year old girl. Big difference.

Second, as others have pointed out, a pedophile is really someone who lusts after those who have yet to reach sexual maturity. Chaplin was lusting after young virgins but those who had reached sexual maturity.

Finally, taking into account the times is important. Once again, I agree it's odd for a man that age the fact is that maturity is on a case by case basis and the age that a society chooses is largely arbitrary. In 2010, a 50 year old man can marry an 17 or 18 year old girl and no one bats an eye lash. 90 years ago, marrying a 16-year-old was acceptable. I really don't see how we can lambast someone for a difference of one year. Maybe in 2030, the age of conscent will be 21 and we'll look at anyone getting married under that as odd.

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[deleted]

I believe that Oona was 18. And let us not forget, he married them. He liked them young, but he was nothing resembling a pedophile. He didn't rape anyone, they married him of their own free will. They weren't little innocent children, they were young women. He stayed with Oona for 34 years. In short, he did nothing wrong.

And a pedophile, in any case, has nothing to do with age-differences, it is about being sexually attracted to prepubescent children.



www.risingabovetheradar.blogspot.com
www.madmanoz.blogspot.com

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Thank you for your input Lord-Z. I agree with you, although attraction to prepubescent girls kinda has to do with age (under 14). But along with age, I believe it's also about purity, innocence, and most of all naivety and immaturity. That's my take on the difference between a true pedophile and Chaplin.

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Yeah...people who for some reason are ignorant on the fact that at that time (and centuries before, really), being married at 16 to a much older man was commonplace; hell, in the middle ages to be 18 and unwed was unthinkable. So try not to judge historical figures based on the times we ourselves live in. Except for a few cases, our thought processes don't apply.

Well where'd ya lose him? It's not like he's a set of car keys...

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There have been reports that he met Lita when she was just 6 years old and groomed her until she was of an age to marry.

The Long Walk stops every year, just once.

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That 'report' (gossip, actually) was in one of Kenneth Anger's 'Hollywood Babylon' books, which really ought to be subtitled "Bullstuff about the film industry by a jealous nobody"

The church may shout but Darwin roars

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No offense to Chaplin, but marrying a 17 year old at 50 is a little twisted, even if it was a 50 year old woman marrying a young guy.

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redai02-1


Yeah...people who for some reason are ignorant on the fact that at that time (and centuries before, really), being married at 16 to a much older man was commonplace; hell, in the middle ages to be 18 and unwed was unthinkable. So try not to judge historical figures based on the times we ourselves live in. Except for a few cases, our thought processes don't apply.



well the life expetency wasnt in your 30. So People were not expected to live in there 90 heck even in there 100 let alone 103!

George Burns died before turning 102






tubularbelle2003

There have been reports that he met Lita when she was just 6 years old and groomed her until she was of an age to marry.



How is that not perverted?



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Well, in the first place, if Paulette was 26, then there is no way that he would be a "pedophile", since by definition, it is a person who is sexually attracted to children, not sexually attracted to 26 year old women.

In the second place, the correct term would probably be "ephebophile".

In the third place, it all depends on the age of consent where the marriages took place. It's one thing if they are 13 year old girls, but 16, 17 years old?

In 30 states, and the District of Coulmbia, the age of consent is 16.

IN 8 states, it's 17.

This means that the age of consent of 18 is actually the minority, not the majority

Just something to chew on...
http://www.ageofconsent.us/

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mikey1969

Well, in the first place, if Paulette was 26, then there is no way that he would be a "pedophile", since by definition, it is a person who is sexually attracted to children, not sexually attracted to 26 year old women.

In the second place, the correct term would probably be "ephebophile".

In the third place, it all depends on the age of consent where the marriages took place. It's one thing if they are 13 year old girls, but 16, 17 years old?

In 30 states, and the District of Coulmbia, the age of consent is 16.

IN 8 states, it's 17.

This means that the age of consent of 18 is actually the minority, not the majority

Just something to chew on...
http://www.ageofconsent.us/




what about gay love?


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Well the girls were well into puberty so pedophile, no, but in narrow-minded dumb and repressed, america, yeah

In an insane world.. i am among the most sane

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[deleted]

Times were indeed different, but he was criticized even back in the day for it. He married his first wife because their relationship would have been illegal otherwise if I'm not mistaken and he probably had sexual relations before what was considered "the age of consent" back then.

So yes, Chaplin was wrong for this, but it doesn't take away from his artistic genius and my enjoyment of his films. Unfortunately all great minds tend to be troubled in their personal lives in some way.

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You may want to check how some of those people are spelling pedophile before you brand everybody as an American.

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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mattcymru


Well the girls were well into puberty so pedophile, no, but in narrow-minded dumb and repressed, america, yea


well what if it was a gay older guy with a younger 16 year old guy?

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