True Marxism
C'mon lace, where did I put forward that Hitler in any way deserved to be called a Christian? I specifically said "The issue is that powermongers will take whatever is at hand and see it benefitting them."
I was addressing your point about the Nazis perverting Christianity. Any madman will pervert whatever faith or philosophy they deal with. That Hitler saw himself as a Christian is still germane as the OP suggested he was an atheist, which is how we got here. And as well, what he saw himself as does affect who gets seen as the enemy - without Arabic history or the Christ-killer tag, what excuse is there to demonize Jews? It certainly doesn't come up from Hindu or Buddhist cultures.
The Nazis perverted German society to their evil purpose - industry, nationalism, socialism, the arts, youth, pageantry, martial ardor, anger over Versailles, Darwin, eugenics, history, mythology, the occult, and yes, Christianity!
Most of these are relatively neutral in of themselves. They are not essential to Nazism and have little to do with Nazi ideology.
But what is NOT neutral is Nazi ideology itself, especially its assertion that "races" compete with each other, and it is the right and destiny of the Master Race to subject other races in pursuing the Will To Power. Even Hitler never publicly advocated genocide, but still genocide was the consequence of Nazi anti-Semitic hatred and policy.
The marginalization and oppression of Jews has been longstanding ever since the Roman Empire. Unfortunately, Church clergy often encouraged hatred of Jews to a receptive audience of peasants anxious to wipe out their debts, take over Jewish industries, and drive away suspicious exotic foreigners. Also, since The Church was an integral part of the state apparatus, unbelief in the state religion was interpreted as disloyalty. Some kingdoms forcibly converted Jews or expelled them, example, Edward I of England (1290), Ferdinand of Spain (1492).
However, that was not the whole story. Nations such as Holland, Poland, the Ottomans, and even Germany, accepted large numbers of Jews who founded communities (called Shteltl) that existed for many centuries right up until the holocaust. They became an important part of widespread German culture in Central Europe. By the early 17th century, European rulers began to tolerate religious dissent in exchange for a poll tax. By the early 19th century, Jews were given full rights of citizenship in Western European nations. Finally, the Catholic Church came to appreciate Judaism as the "root of the tree" of Christianity and teaches that to this day.
Unfortunately, as a result of history, Jews commonly distrust both nationalism and Christianity in their host nations to present-day. Thus, Jewish intellectuals were frequently in the vanguard of revolutionary movements, and naturally antagonized conservative elements of society, such as industrialists like Henry Ford. Jewish professional success and wealth further attracted envious hatred during the depression from disaffected social outcasts like Hitler (just as wealthy Christian Armenians attracted envious hatred from Turks). Prominent Jewish revolutionaries include internationally: Zionist founder Theodore Herzl, international communism founder Karl Marx, Marxist Leon Trotsky, German Marxist Rosa Luxemburg, anarchist Emma Goldman, radical individualist Ayn Rand (and her associates), etc. And domestically: ACLU co-founder Felix Frankfurter, Yippie founder Abbie Hoffman, feminist politician Bella Abzug, MS magazine founder Gloria Steinem, Left apologist Noam Chomsky, NOW founder and Marxist Betty Friedan, Bush hater George Soros, feminist attorney Gloria All-red, uber-feminist Andrea Dworkin, GLAAD co-founder Arnie Kantrowitz, same-sex marriage attorney Evan Wolfson, progressive feminist Naomi Wolf, ACLU president Nadine Strossen, FCC opponent Howard Stern,...
According to Simon Monetefiore in his recent work "Stalin", many Bolshevik intellectuals, Stalin familiars, and henchmen (notably, Lazar Kaganovich) were also disproportionately Jewish, thus giving the Nazis plenty of propaganda about "Jewish Bolshevism". This is ironic given the extremist anti-Semitism often erupting in Stalin's policies. This is also ironic given the tradition of Jewish bourgeois professionalism and success of Jewish capitalists.
Even in the USA, which has a longstanding tradition of positive Christian feeling and identification with the Hebrews of the Old Testament, and is the guarantor and economic supporter of Israel, the overwhelming majority of Jews are Democrats and hold Leftist positions. In 2004, 76+% of American Jews voted for John Kerry. In 2000, 79% of American Jews voted for Gore.
It's simplistic to try and attach killing as a by-product of philosophies that don't deal with it or decry it. Whether a powermonger sees their power as innate, deriving from God, or otherwise, it has no bearing on whether others can be arbitrarily lumped together with them. Individuals are such, and writing off someone's actions as a natural function of their belief about the way the universe works shows intellectual inability. Unfortunately, that is often the case and can be coupled with arrogance.
I looked for my complete works of Marx and Lenin ordered directly from the Soviet Union via the college course I took in Marxism. But I could not find them to dust them off.
I feel we might agree that our intentional actions morally defines us as individuals. However, we are also collectively morally responsible for evil causes that we either join or do not oppose when we have the power to do so.
The ideology of Marxism states quite plainly that the bourgeoisie are the natural oppressors and class enemy of the proletariat. Furthermore, Marx preached that the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" must overcome bourgeois society. Ultimately, bourgeois society and its values will be abolished in favor of the collective communist vision - via force where necessary.
To that end, all bourgeois property confiscated, private property rights abolished, free trade abolished, every person forced to work for the collective, all media and transport controlled by the state, the entire economy collectively planned and operated, children communally raised and educated, women's traditional social society abolished, the social custom of marriage abolished, traditional morality abolished, and religion abolished.
"When, in the course of development, class distinctions have disappeared, and all production has been concentrated in the hands of a vast association of the whole nation, the public power will lose its political character. Political power, properly so called, is merely the organized power of one class for oppressing another. If the proletariat during its contest with the bourgeoisie is compelled, by the force of circumstances, to organize itself as a class; if, by means of a revolution, it makes itself the ruling class, and, as such, sweeps away by force the old conditions of production, then it will, along with these conditions, have swept away the conditions for the existence of class antagonisms and of classes generally, and will thereby have abolished its own supremacy as a class. "
Source: The Communist Manifesto
To sum up, every traditional human value destroyed, every human being enslaved to the state, and the state given Ultimate Power.
In every society, there are evil men like Hitler, Stalin, Beria, Mao, etc amongst us. Most of the time, they are relatively harmless and cause little damage. It is only when a society creates positions of Ultimate Power that they intrigue and murder to the top. Only the most evil, ruthless, and clever men achieve it. Thus, the mass murdering thug Stalin succeeded Lenin whereas deluded well-meaning intellectual Trotsky found himself exiled in Mexico - until one of Stalin's agents put an ice pick in his head. Congratulations!
Marxist communist ideology is exactly what was attempted in Russia, Eastern Europe, China, Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Africa, and South America - always with the same results! Men such as Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Beria, Mao, Kim Jong Il, Pol Pot, Ceausescu, Castro, et al, achieving Ultimate Power and turning their victims into corpses piled unimaginably high are the inevitable results of true communism.
A very few socialists, though not necessarily sympathetic to the excesses of the capitalists, still realized the true nature of communism and wrote about it:
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever. "
-George Orwell
But you claimed previously that isn't "true communism" because the horror show didn't engulf the entire globe?! This is insanity!
That said, "Marxist-style Communism" has never existed. The Soviet and Chinese systems (and their various satellites) subordinated everything to power - state power, which was antithetical to the Marxist view. While there may well have been true ideologues within the ranks (practicing doublethink, as happens in every dictatorial state), the goals and practices of those nations certainly didn't align with the most basic Marxist principles. That they even tried is nothing short of propaganda, and by this point in time, people should have learned better. As for Marxist thought itself, it's pipe dream thinking with no relation to the real world we live in. The same however applies to those with a evangelical approach to capitalism. There will never be any pure system in the world; the needs and perversity of people will both stand in the way of that. Neither should people be forced to only have one option as their economic system.
It is not the "perversity of people" that stands in the way of pure Marxism. Human beings, by their nature, need economic and social freedom to live properly. The difference between the systems of Marxism and Capitalism is that Capitalism is the system of economic and social freedom and Marxism is the system of economic and social slavery. Now that is not the whole story, but that is certainly the essential story. Certainly, individual rights, civil rights, objective law, and free democratic institutions are also necessary for people to live properly, especially in the modern world.
Previously, you claimed that Soviet and Chinese communism were not "true Marxist style communism" because they were not "global", now your claim is that they were not true Marxism because they "subordinated everything to State Power".
The fact is that State Power is the essence of Marxism, it is explicit and implicit in almost every Marxist statement. Marx's ultimate altruistic vision is the elimination of all class distinctions, all vestiges of bourgeois society abolished, and everyone and everything put under Collective State Power!
I invite you to read the communist manifesto. Please note:
"We have seen above that the first step in the revolution by the working class is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class to win the battle of democracy. "
Thus, popular revolution by the working class is essential to achieve dictatorship of the proletariat, i.e. state power.
"The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralize all instruments of production in the hands of the state, i.e., of the proletariat organized as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible. "
Thus, the proletariat will maximize their state power until they control absolutely everything, which will somehow increase economic production!
"Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production; by means of measures, therefore, which appear economically insufficient and untenable, but which, in the course of the movement, outstrip themselves, necessitate further inroads upon the old social order, and are unavoidable as a means of entirely revolutionizing the mode of production."
Thus, robbery, disruption of bourgeois production, and attacks on the old social order (i.e. traditional society), are necessary to achieve communist society.
Stalin and Mao didn't kill people "to further their communist ideology", they killed to further (and demonstrate) their power. Certainly there were actual atheists in the forces of both who took things out on theists, but that was hardly the standard. Like Hitler or Idi Amin, the goal was power, and the espoused philosophies simply propaganda used as a means to an end. As you note though, class and ideology were reasons, and counter to the assertions of the OP, the killings carried out on their orders and in their names cannot be all ascribed to atheism. I in no way would ascribe the actions of the Nazis to Christianity, but it should be recognized that that did play somewhat into the demonization of Jews. Were you aware that the Catholic Church 'forgave' Jews for killing Jesus in 1965, and that up to that, supported the idea that they were collectively responsible?
Certainly, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, et al, murdered their victims to further and demonstrate their power. However, their means of achieving power, and their vision of what to do with power, was to further communist ideology!
Russia under Lenin and Stalin implemented true Marxist goals! Stalin did not just murder the Kulaks. He instituted the Marxist collective agriculture. He confiscated Kulak land and food, forced them onto collective farms that produced very little, and then took that too (for the good of the state)! Much of the confiscated crops rotted on the way to government warehouses because of the poor conditions of state run transport. Naturally, millions starved to death! The Ukraine once known as "the bread basket of Europe" due to abundant grain harvests became desolate. Russia became a net grain importer from the United States!
Stalin also employed a series of "five year plans" to quickly industrialize Russia. Even though it eliminated consumer goods in the short term, and left the proletariat in unspeakable poverty, ultimately it was towards the greater good! Additionally, all workers were required on pain of exile or death to know the official statistics on the progress of Soviet industrialization. This too was a Marxist dictate to eliminate specialization and involve everyone as participants in all aspects of the economy. Initially, all comrades received the same rations! However, this was later modified due to the "greater needs" of engineers and managers. All of these 5-year plans, 7-year plans, etc, were complete disasters! Not only did central planning not address people's needs, and fail to grow the Soviet economy, ultimately, the Soviet economy shrank drastically because nobody knew what the hell they were doing and produced junk that nobody could use!
Additionally, per Marx, artificial lines of ethnicity and region dividing people from one another were abolished. Thus, nations swallowed by the Russian Empire but not digested were brought into the greater Mother Russia via massive ethnic deportations and resettlements. Finally, bourgeois class enemies were purged throughout society. Thus, black market "speculators" were shot. The imprisoned Czar Nicholas and his family were shot. Officers in the military from "imperialist" families were purged and shot. This had consequences in the eventual war with Nazi Germany.
Mao adapted Marxism to Chinese society. The economy was centrally planned as per China's own version of the 5-year plan - the Great Leap Forward (1959). Mao implemented Marxist collective farming and Soviet revolutionary planting methods as per the pseudo-scientist, Lysenko. Lysenko claimed that more crops could be grown if the old bourgeois method of planting seeds with enough soil was abolished in favor of planting seeds densely packed together - which then choked each other out. It was also decided that sparrows were eating too much grain that could otherwise be in inner party member's stomachs. Therefore, a war against sparrows was declared to eliminate the bourgeois threat. This central planning was partly successful. The sparrow population was greatly reduced and the next summer an enormous horde of insects practically wiped out the grain crop. It is estimated that 30 to 40 million people starved to death - especially, young girls. The farmers were declared "class enemies" for not meeting quotas and death squads were sent to force them to give up supposedly hoarded grain. Finally, the starving peasants turned to cannibalism. Ultimately, China too had to buy grain from the United States (1961). Finally, peasants forced to be steelworkers could not meet demands, so they melted down junk metal, which the government used to build bridges that promptly collapsed. Central economic planning - ya gotta luv it!
Mao launched the "Cultural Revolution" (1966) to purify Chinese society. Bourgeois Confucianism was abolished in favor of Mao's "little red book". Mao's adaptations never contradicted Marx, Lenin, or Stalin in any essential.. Bourgeois Buddhist monasteries and literature were destroyed throughout China and Tibet. Bourgeois traditional respect for elders and ancestors were officially undermined. Show trials were held by ideologically correct proletarian workers to judge bourgeois class enemies (such as rich peasants), and sentenced them to prison or death. There are reports that some were even eaten! Bourgeois urban professional people were forced to work on farms harvesting crops as per the Marxist dictate to eliminate specialization and involve everyone as participants in all aspects of the economy. Children were mass inducted into the national youth group, The Red Guard, and learned communist songs, parades, and correct ideology. Children were even recruited to lecture class enemies in the show trials! Children were taught nursery stories about factories and tractors.
Interestingly, the international brotherhood preached by Marx only partially bore fruit between the Soviet Union and China. Though, they often cooperated to bring benefits of the worker's paradise to new lands such as Korea, they also began to militarize their border to the point where millions of Soviet and Chinese faced each other over the longest most heavily guarded border in the world! By contrast, the capitalist imperialist exploiter nation of the United States still has the longest undefended border in the world with Canada.
China still has a dictatorship of the proletariat written into its ridiculous unwieldy "constitution" - it is full of communist party declarations and exhortations. For example, all land is owned by the state, the state has the power of life and death on the spot at its discretion, all business enterprises are at least half owned by the state. As per Marx, all communications, the press, and all transport are run by the state (except taxis). No bourgeois democratic ideas are allowed - hence the Tiananmen Square crackdown. Gangs of thugs regularly invade villages to force women to abort babies up to 9 months enforcing China's "one child" policy. If a child is accidentally born alive, they drown it in buckets of water. You might reasonably say that Marx did not advocate this state of affairs. But it is all logically sound if you agree with the principle of the primacy of collectivism over individualism. Because where there are NO individual rights and there are ONLY collective rights, collective society must logically do what it considers best for itself.
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