MovieChat Forums > Alien³ (1992) Discussion > What exactly is wrong overall with the A...

What exactly is wrong overall with the Alien series of films, and why don't the directors and writers seem to be able to


...do the world's greatest movie monster any justice these days?

https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/efe9mo/what_exactly_is_wrong_overall_with_the_alien/

Alien [1979]: Obviously a masterpiece of a film, and I think that the tense pacing and sparse use of the alien is what made it all so very effective. Unfortunately, the people who created and worked on this film seem to have been a 'capturing lightning in a bottle' situation, and was a dream team that would be almost impossible to replicate on any new film. From H.R. Giger's masterful nightmare creations to Ridley Scott's powerfully atmospheric and claustrophobic direction, the perfect cast, and even the writers Dan O'Bannon and Ronald Shusett, everyone was a the absolute top of their game on this singular cinematic achievement.

Aliens [1986]: This is a great film, and please understand that it will always hold a place in my heart, but James Cameron tampered with and altered the formula of what made the original Alien so powerful and resonant, and I think that the series paid for this ever since. Alien is a tense and suspenseful horror movie, and Aliens is an outright blockbuster action film that reduces the titular creature to mere cannon fodder. To alter the DNA of the original monster so much in order to create something more original from the first film seems to have confused the overall tone of the series from this point forward.

Alien 3 [1992]: As many fans of Alien already know, this is where everything completely fell apart for the franchise, but why? Other than studio interference and lack of a working script something else was going on here as well. Alien 3 seems to have wanted to bridge the gap between the feel of the first two films: it wanted the creature to be a singular and more frightening creature again, but also tried to instill a sense of action by making the alien a speed-based predator, which definitely didn't work out quite well. This film is also where it becomes apparent that directors and creative teams are now only interested in creating a new vision for the creature every time, which only has the effect of reducing its effectiveness even further.

Alien Resurrection [1997]: Although it has a few fans, this travesty of a film is where the Alien franchise ran completely off the rails. This is what happens when the first three films of a series vary so wildly in tone that no one even knows what to do with the Alien any more; unfortunately, here is where tone-deaf satire was attempted and pretty much reduced the series to being a joke and killed interest. Why can't directors and creative teams simply pay homage to the first film and respect the tone and pacing of it? A smaller or even lower budget Alien film with practical effects and a focused story on believable characters could easily make a worthwhile film in the series, and it baffles me as to why this isn't attempted or even considered.

Prometheus [2012]: And all that could have been... here, we see Ridley Scott come back to set things right again, the original director of the masterpiece of Alien, and what does he do? He subverts nearly every expectation possible and does much to ruin the original mystery of the creature, and even strip-mines and retcons the fossilized space jockey that was originally transporting the alien in the first place. But why? These are answers to questions that no one was asking or even wanted answered, and part of the dark and timeless allure of the alien was in not knowing its origins or exactly what it was. The alien is most effective and unsettling when it is alien, not vivisected to the point of having no mystery. To retcon the original space jockey, which was originally created as an elephantine-in-appearance hyper-advanced unknown alien species, into the planet-seeding 'space jockey', was ultimately a mildly-interesting diversion. All of this is bad enough, but to not even have the alien itself show up is ultimately a disappointing betrayal to fans.

Alien Covenant [2017]: If Prometheus was mildly interesting with the questions that it raised, Alien Covenant is the point where all hope for the franchise is practically lost. This is a movie that tries to do so much and go in so many directions that of course it fails at nearly everything. It tries to be a horror movie, but fails because it then tries to go in the direction of action. It tries to return to being an Alien movie, but fails because they show the creature on the outside of a ship running around in broad daylight, where it is the least possibly effective it could be in scaring anyone. Part of this lackluster entry in the franchise might not be Ridley Scott's fault, because the rumor has it that he wanted to make 'Prometheus 2' and go to the 'paradise' home world of the Engineers, but 20th Century Fox wanted a movie that focused on the alien instead. Ridley obviously wasn't interested, so Alien Covenant is what we got instead.

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Imo the main problem with Alien3 is that no one wanted to make it. At least not the producers at Brandywine nor Sigourney Weaver. But Fox really needed a sequel. Giler and Hill had a good original treatment idea, but they got the wrong scriptwriters for it, and Ridley Scott wasn’t available to direct. Renny Harlin’s idea of exploring the Alien home world was interesting but would be too costly to make in the 80s.

Then Sigourney Weaver got too heavily involved and demanded all these stipulations for the movie to have no guns, Ripley to have sex with an alien, and Ripley to die. The studio went with 1 and 3 and the movie sucked royally because of it.

Alien3 is a decent movie on its own, but as an Alien sequel it is no where near up to par.

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In retrospect, Fox should have avoided doing a threequel so that they could kickstart the AVP franchise instead.

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[deleted]

I LOVE this series.

It's probably my favorite.

But it's the same old stuff done over and over. The Aliens are always chasing after someone. And someone wins in the end?

Humans?
Aliens?

What more else is there to work with?

I think the series should have ended with Aliens.

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I think the problem may be really simple ... when they wrote the original Alien they conceived it as a monster in the haunted house, and then as they went along tried to add in features that made the movie mysterious and bigger than it was, but with no real feeling or idea what or why.

Now, those same people cannot put themselves in a science fiction mindset or appreciate the ideas of others, so they just continue with nonsense, ... and then partially because if you make too much sense people get bored or feel no tension.

They know the realities of the market for this movie. Lots of old people who saw the original will go see anything that comes out in this alien universe by Ridley out of sentimental reasons ... so they don't really care much about what they do. I think the series is dominated by whatever they think will make money ... that's the bottom line.

I don't know why the studio would mess with Ridley's ideas, unless he is going senile, which from hearing him talk about this in interviews maybe he is. His comments on Alien and the sequels have been contradictory and kind of silly for the most part.

But look at Alien and compare it with other series and the sequels are almost all universally bad .. like Star Wars. They don't care, they know they will make money.

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@brux:

Great post!

Would you be willing to rank the Alien film franchise?

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I already did somewhere, but in order

Good:
Aliens
Alien

Passable:
Resurrection

Bad:
Prometheus
Covenant

Unwatchable:
Alien3

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Wow.... I have to say that I actually agree with you.

Covenant is almost unwatchable but at least they had guns and explosions and used some sort of common sense to deal with the xenomorphs (even though I hate that movie with a burning passion).

I refuse to watch Alien 3 ever again, assembly cut or otherwise.

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They have a gold mine in that franchise. Lots of people who would watch anything, and instead of bringing in some good writers they just work on the effects, and making the characters and the plot as stupid as possible. I've never got it, let alone why they didn't make some sequels earlier?

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All three of the big hardcore sci-fi monster/space franchises were gold mines: Aliens, Terminator, and Predator.

They managed to torpedo all three successfully.

instead of bringing in some good writers they just work on the effects


You know what's really sad? The effects in Covenant look atrocious, especially that sequence with the xenomorph dance-walking on the lander while they're trying to get it back up to the ship. It looked so stupid.

Alien and Aliens -- and even to lesser extents, Alien 3 and Alien: Resurrection -- at least still look somewhat plausible due to using a lot of puppeteering and practical effects. But Covenant's awful 3D will look even more awful half a decade from now (heck it still looks awful and it's only a few years old).

making the characters and the plot as stupid as possible.


This is what boggles my mind, too. Even a 12-year-old wouldn't make the stupid mistakes they have grown adults making in these films, especially Prometheus and Covenant. I was facepalming on behalf of the characters making stupid decisions.

I've never got it, let alone why they didn't make some sequels earlier?


I used to read some of the production scoops from back in the day, and originally they were supposed to make I think AvP after Alien 3 or something like that, but producers pitched to studios that they would need a $250 mil budget, and the studios (rightfully) said "no!". So they made Alien: Resurrection on a much smaller budget, and shelved AvP up until the early aughts, where it was once again a butchered, low-budget, nonsensical mess.


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I'll probably be ridiculed for this, but, for me at least, the Alien series started to go wrong with Aliens.

Alien introduced us to this unique, terrifying creature, that was virtually unstoppable.. It bled acid, it was as vicious as hell, and the life cycle was enough to make your skin crawl.. If it didn't eat you, it would inject an enzyme that metamorphosed you into an Ovomorph, which would give rise to the Face Hugger, Chestburster, then back to the Xenomorph, completing the cycle of life.

Aliens changed all that. It introduced the Queen, destroying the originality of the Alien lifecycle, and meant that they could now be produced en-masse, the Ovomorph became as egg, and in so doing, the Xenomorph was changed from 'the perfect organism' into an insect.. A large, nasty one, admittedly, but an insect nonetheless that could now be dispatched with nothing more than a shotgun.. As good a movie as Aliens is, it took the horror out of the Alien and became an action movie, plain and simple.

Fincher tried to rectify this with Alien 3, and, with the extended cut at least, he pretty much exceeded. He even introduced the fact that the adult Xeno, anatomically, would resemble the host.. It stood on two legs in the original, and was a fast, four legged beast in Alien 3. He even brought back the almost unstoppable nature of the Xeno with the molten lead.

It again tripped up with Resurrection.. That could have been such a good movie, but that hybrid destroyed it, again trying to make the alien something that it wasn't.

Personally I loved Prometheus, with it's explanations of the early Xeno and the 'Creators', and the only real problem I saw with Covenant was the fact that it didn't lead straight on from Prometheus, but that was done to try and keep the fans happy, both are decent movies. If you ever get the chance to see the 'Chaos' fan-edits of either you should, especially Covenant, as cut scenes are re-inserted explaining the events since Prometheus.

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I think the thing people forget is that there's no point in repeating the same thing twice, and so Aliens is a very proper, logical, intelligent continuation from the first film.

Do I think they could have nailed home how dangerous a group of xenomorphs were? Absolutely. One of the biggest issues is that the only way we know that xenos can become cannon fodder the way they're depicted in the film is because of the weapons the Colonial Marines are using. They sort of rattle through this during the drop down to the planet, where Hudson explains that they're using caseless explosive rounds in the pulse rifles, which is why the xenos were exploding upon impact when the marines were lighting them up.

What they really should have hammered home was that basic parabellums had no effect on the carapace of the xenos. I can't remember which movie it was -- maybe it was Alien: Resurrection? -- where they were shooting the xenos with basic small arms and it just ricocheted off their outer shell.

But I think Aliens really lacked a sequence to visually showcase that without proper armament you were SCREWED facing off against a xeno, something that was made apparent in the first film but only through off-screen actions.

It's also a shame because the AvP movies could have been perfect vehicles to showcase just how outmatched humans are against both xenos and Predators, but instead those movies devolved into stupidity, and Alien Covenant has killed any chance whatsoever at there ever being a good Alien film again.

In some alternate universe Neil Blomkamp would have been able to make the proper Alien 3 he pitched to Fox and all would have been right in the world. *sigh*

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" that he wanted to make 'Prometheus 2' and go to the 'paradise' home world of the Engineers" - but that's exactly what he did ..

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"The World's Greatest Monster Movie?"

I dont think so.

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