MovieChat Forums > The Tonight Show with Jay Leno (1992) Discussion > Not a Leno Fan but...

Not a Leno Fan but...

posted 10 years ago by AlexDuran
14 replies | jump to latest

It's twice they've kicked him out of the chair now. I am not a Leno fan, but he did take a lot of the blame with the whole Conan mess for no reason.

They removed him against his will for Conan (who I love), when Conan got into conflict with NBC and left they put Leno back in. Don't really see how any of that was his fault, other than he should have fought harder to keep his seat the first time around. He didn't fight to hold onto the position, so doubt he fought hard to get it back other than NBC offering it to him with Conan leaving.

Now they are kicking him out again lol. I have my opinions on Leno as a comedian, but don't really see any fault of his in the last five years. Maybe people were still salty he got it over Letterman way back.

[–] mruptown 10 years ago

I agree that Leno was kicked out for Conan, essentially Conan threatened to leave, so really Conan kicked out Leno...well after his 5 years ended...anyway Conan couldn't deliver and that was it. Leno was loyal to NBC.

Also Leno can at least do a decent monologue, his show is like comfort food for late night before you head to bed...
look im important

[–] dnseminoles 10 years ago

Against his will? He doesn't own the franchise. The Conan/Leno transition was known about for years leading up to it. Back in the early 90s, Leno threatened to go to another network if Carson didn't vacate (who was also #1 at the time). NBC bowed and gave him the Tonight Show over Letterman. Up until the Hugh Grant scandal, Leno was floundering. NBC panicked and offered to give the show to Letterman instead, but he declined, in so many words saying that would be dishonorable to take it from Jay.

Please don't make Jay out to be some helpless bystander. He went back on his word and prevented Conan the same amount of space/time to grow into his new time slot that Jay was afforded when he was just starting out in the early 90s.

Jay is a selfish workaholic. He's played with "the ball" long enough. Now some one else gets to play with it and he's gritting his teeth like a child. Good riddance.

"In space, no one can hear you jizz."

[–] sjbradford 10 years ago

Jay didn't go back on any word. He stepped aside and never said he wouldn't return if asked. NBC asked him back. And wanting to keep doing a job you love doesn't make you a "selfish workaholic".

Also, Letterman didn't decline NBC's offer because "it would dishonor Jay". He did it because his good friend Johnny Carson told him to, because he felt that NBC had treated him poorly. And because his producer, Peter Lassally told him that he wouldn't be seen as Carson's successor, but instead would be seen as Leno's.

[–] dnseminoles 10 years ago

You don't seem like you're new to this subject, sjbradford. Which is surprising to see you write, "Jay didn't go back on any word." You had to have seen this infamous clip, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D86xDCI4tDc

"There's only one man who could have still been doing this show in his 60s, Johnny Carson."

"In '09, the show is yours, Conan."

If this way of doing transactions is so acceptable to you, please, I invite you give something valuable to someone, tell them its theirs and then reclaim it from them. Didn't go back on any word, my ass.

____________________________________________________________

never said he wouldn't return if asked

Does anyone announce beforehand when they're going to do something underhanded?

Hey, honey, I never said I wouldn't steal money out of your purse. I'm blameless.

wanting to keep doing a job you love doesn't make you a "selfish workaholic".

Jay's job is to be a comedian, there's lots of other venues he could have gone to continue his craft. Conan worked at Late Night for 16 years. Promotion to the Tonight Show was implied, everyone knew that. If someone was behind me, putting in that effort to eventually get promoted to my job, I would do everything I could to make sure that dream got realized for them. Conan worked hard, fair and square. As a fellow comedian, Jay should have been his ally, instead he only looked out for himself.

For whatever reason Letterman didn't accept that offer, Jay was given grace and time to find his audience and to make it successful. Jay would have looked like a decent human being if he extended that same courtesy to Conan.

All Jay had to do was walk away and let Conan/NBC suffer a little bit over the struggling ratings. But no, he just couldn't let go of the ball.

"In space, no one can hear you jizz."

[–] a_l_i_e_n 10 years ago

"In '09, the show is yours, Conan."

Jay said this after NBC informed him that they would not be signing him to a new contract in '09. He was trying to be a good sport about being put out to pasture for Conan.

There's only one man who could have still been doing this show in his 60s, Johnny Carson."

That's expressing humility. But now that you mention it, maybe he should've been more honest about what was going on and just said:

"Guess what everybody! NBC is kicking me out at the end of my contract because they think Conan is more valuable than I am."

All Jay had to do was walk away...

According to "The War For Late Night" by Bill Carter, after the 10pm show's cancellation, Jay asked to be released from his contract. NBC refused.

...and let Conan/NBC suffer a little bit over the struggling ratings.

What about the corporations that paid huge amounts of money to buy advertising time during "The Tonight Show"? In dollars and cents, how much suffering can we assume they would've been willing to endure while Conan struggled with his ratings?

[–] a_l_i_e_n 10 years ago

Back in the early 90s, Leno threatened to go to another network if Carson didn't vacate (who was also #1 at the time).

Actually, he was going to go to CBS until NBC guaranteed him he would inherit "The Tonight Show" when Johnny retired. And that's the way it worked out. NBC had no idea Johnny was stepping down until he announced it himself at a network affiliates meeting in 1991.

Up until the Hugh Grant scandal, Leno was floundering.

True.

NBC panicked and offered to give the show to Letterman instead, but he declined, in so many words saying that would be dishonorable to take it from Jay.

He declined in part because Johnny (a role model to Dave) told him that if NBC treated him the way they had Dave, he'd have quit. Also, yes, Dave feared looking like the bad guy if he actually took the show from Jay after he was already established as the host, which he was.

He went back on his word...

NBC told Jay they wanted him out after Conan threatened to go to another network if Jay didn't vacate. Like Johnny, he was number 1 in the ratings at the time, too. So saying Jay went back on his word isn't really accurate. He didn't publically rebuke NBC and Conan's plan to remove him because (a) he was out no matter what he said, (b) he still had a few years left on his contract and wanted to maintain good relationships with NBC and (c) he didn't want to come off bitter like Letterman had been.

....and prevented Conan the same amount of space/time to grow into his new time slot that Jay was afforded when he was just starting out in the early 90s.

But when Jay assumed hosting duties of "TTS", NBC was in much better shape as it still had actual hits like "Cosby", "Cheers" & "LA Law", with future successes like "E/R", "Fraser" and "Friends" just ahead. There was no competition back then for peoples' attention from stuff like I-pods, Facebook and Twitter. NBC could simply better afford to be patient back then with Jay than they could by 2009 when Conan, unfortunately, took over during the worst economic turn down since The Great Depression. Besides, it was NBC and it's affiliates that wanted him back at 11:35. It's not like he snapped his fingers and the network just handed him back the keys. If he had that kind of power then he wouldn't have been removed from "The Tonight Show" in the first place.

Jay is a selfish workaholic.

Don't see much selfishness. When did being a workaholic become unethical?

He's played with "the ball" long enough. Now some one else gets to play with it and he's gritting his teeth like a child.

Did you happen to watch the "60 Minutes" piece on him a few weeks ago? Didn't sound like he was gritting his teeth when he remarked that he gets why NBC is doing this, and said of leaving at 64 that "that's about right".

[–] dnseminoles 10 years ago

Didn't sound like he was gritting his teeth when he remarked that he gets why NBC is doing this

I didn't see that interview, but I have heard him say such things like, "This is not my idea. In this business, eventually you get screwed."

I caught a few minutes of his monologue last night. People were giving him a passionate standing ovation and he said, "Where were you guys when I was trying to negotiate my contract?" I think that's more true to his opinion on the matter than this nice PR stuff that he's been saying.

When did being a workaholic become unethical?

I didn't use the word 'unethical' to describe being a workaholic. I do associate it though with being obsessive and a bit imbalanced in this type of situation.

NBC could simply better afford to be patient back then with Jay than they could by 2009 when Conan

Jay said this after NBC informed him that they would not be signing him to a new contract in '09. He was trying to be a good sport about being put out to pasture for Conan.

Whatever his intentions, those were still his words, "In '09, the show is yours, Conan." I don't trust people that go back on their word. What was even more insulting, Jay never apologized for going back on what he said, no olive branch extended to Conan.

Jay asked to be released from his contract. NBC refused.

I find that suspicious. A man with that kind of clout/muscle was just following orders? If he wanted to be released from NBC, why 5 years later is he saying it's not my idea to leave, I'm basically getting screwed here? Wouldn't he be saying things more like, "Ah, finally I can move onto to other things in life, I've been released."? In our heart of hearts, we all know, Jay would have kept doing that show from a nursing home if he had it his way.

"In space, no one can hear you jizz."

[–] a_l_i_e_n 10 years ago

They may have been in a better position to take the hit and be patient. But I think it had more to do with the fact that they had no other choice. Carson wasn't coming back, Letterman wasn't gonna work with them. The guy they had the most confidence in wasn't delivering the ratings. In that situation they just had to sit tight.

There were plenty of other comedians who would've been viable choices. Billy Crystal, for one, was approached at one point, and Dana Carvey was asked if he'd be interested in taking over "Late Night". I do think however, that Warren Littlefield wanted to give Jay more time because (Like Zucker a decade later) Littlefield was the guy who'd made this big decision and didn't want to look like he'd made a mistake endorsing Jay over Dave.

Whatever (Jay's) intentions, those were still his words, "In '09, the show is yours, Conan." I don't trust people that go back on their word.

Jay never had the power to promise the show to anybody. That's NBC's call. He just wanted to be a good sport instead of appearing embittered the way Dave had.

What was even more insulting, Jay never apologized for going back on what he said, no olive branch extended to Conan.

As far as I am aware, Conan never apologized to Jay for going in with NBC on a deal that effectively pushed Leno out of a job he adored. It's not like Conan asked Jay ahead of time how he'd feel about stepping aside for him. As they pointed out on "Sixty Minutes", Jay was blindsided.

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Jay asked to be released from his contract. NBC refused.
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I find that suspicious.

Jeff Zucker has no reason to lie about it. After all, Jay not asking for a release would've made Zucker seem less solely responsible for Conan's resignation. And Bill Carter's a New York Times journalist, not a Jay Leno fan boy. If it was a dubious claim, he'd have said so in his book.

A man with that kind of clout/muscle was just following orders?

If he'd gone to court over it, there would've been a penalty for Jay. Like Conan, Jay wouldn't have been able to work in television for an extended period of time. You did say he's a workaholic, so not being able to work in tv would've been tough for a guy who loves the medium as much as he does.

If he wanted to be released from NBC, why 5 years later is he saying it's not my idea to leave, I'm basically getting screwed here?

Think you're getting timelines mixed up a little. To clarify, Jay leaving in 2009 was not his idea, but he did step down as ordered and Conan took over "TTS" June 1st of that year. Jay did, however, ask to be released in 2010 from his new contract because he was dubious about the idea of a half hour show at 11:35.

In our heart of hearts, we all know, Jay would have kept doing that show from a nursing home if he had it his way.

If you believe that, then you have to dismiss the notion that he had the power to "promise" the show to anybody.

[–] dnseminoles 10 years ago

I finally watched that 60 minutes interview. It was pretty enlightening to see Jay's side. It's difficult to change the way you see something framed, but my viewpoint was definitely challenged. From that interview, it sounded like Conan was trying to call some shots, but couldn't follow through.

I'm in a chin-scratching sort of mode. As humiliating as it is to admit, I guess I don't know as much as I thought I did. I'm gonna keep researching this further, but until then, please accept a concession on my part. Ciao.

"In space, no one can hear you jizz."

[–] a_l_i_e_n 10 years ago

I'm gonna keep researching this further, but until then, please accept a concession on my part. Ciao.

Wow. Now that's a very rare thing to encounter on these boards. Thank you and much respect to you in return, dnseminoles. Oh, and by all means do pick up "The War For Late Night" by Bill Carter. No matter how you end up feeling about Jay Leno, I think you'll agree it's a fascinating look into what went on behind the scenes of that drama.

[–] filmklassik 10 years ago

Please don't make Jay out to be some helpless bystander. He went back on his word and prevented Conan the same amount of space/time to grow into his new time slot that Jay was afforded when he was just starting out in the early 90s.

What "word" did Jay go back on?

Keep in mind, Conan's ratings were in the toilet at that point. He was gone. Finished. Kaput. And NBC had to find SOMEBODY to replace Conan with, right?

So the network's first choice, naturally, was the dude who had already made a success of the job -- the one who had scored big ratings at it since 1995 and left when he was still on top.

So why oh why should Leno have told them to **** off?

More specifically, how did O'Brien stand to benefit if Leno HAD told them to **** off?

Answer: O'Brien wouldn't have benefited. NBC was going to fire him anyway, and the network would have simply offered the job to someone else.

Do you see my confusion here?

Where is the impropriety on Jay Leno's part?

No one has adequately been able to explain to me just what, exactly, Leno did wrong.

[–] SimplyirreBraggissible 10 years ago

Leno was unfairly blamed over it.

He wasn't ready to leave at that point. Conan O'Brien was nipping at NBC's ankles, wanting his "promotion" to The Tonight Show and they wanted to oblige him instead of risking him going elsewhere.

And Conan's ratings SUCKED hosting the show. He didn't click with the larger audience. They brought Leno back to salvage the show.

[–] filmklassik 10 years ago

Simply... correct.

[–] Leveticus 10 years ago

It was hard to watch Leno say goodbye again. Seeing him break down like that was proof of a man who didn't want to leave a job he loved doing for all these years.

Johnny Carson got leave on his own accord. I wish Jay had been able to do the same instead of being forced out a second time.

With that said, I think Jimmy Fallon sucks and is probably the worst guy to take over the show. IMO I think Conan O'Brien is overrated, but its BS he had to go through all that drama with NBC executive's politics only for Fallon to get a smooth transaction almost 4 years later.