I know this movie is fiction, but this truely shows how Republicans act/think. They are willing to lie, cheat, and screw over anyone and anything to get the power they crave. Yes, yes I know some Democrates are just as guilty, but this is much much more of a conservative ideal than a liberal one. This movie is a very good example of why Republicans are so currupt.
shareBoy oh boy are you deluded..When I saw this movie 10 years ago my FIRST impression was Democrat. Do whatever it takes to get elected and screw anybody that gets in the way. Like when he was in the slums and raising all kinds of hell untill he finds out the buildings are owned by the guy that is giving him MONEY. Then he shuts up.
"When next we meet, we shall be as golden clouds upon the sky"---The Raisuli
You must be a Republican, thats the only way you would say what you just did. First, the man he worked for was a Republican (his father in law), which means he was a Republican. Second, he talked about giving tax breaks to the rich "to attract new businesses to our community". VERY conservative ideal.
Now, dirty tactics and kickbacks.....
I have only two words that explain this very well, TOM DeLAY!!!!!
Any Kennedy, Clinton, Kerry, ETC. ( Carter wasn't smart enough)
"When next we meet, we shall be as golden clouds upon the sky"---The Raisuli
How about facts buddy. If you are going to throw people under the bus and call them corrupt, back it up with facts. DeLay is the most sanctioned (from the ethics committee) congressmen in US History, that is why I used his name. The worst things the people you named did were cheat on their wives, get divorced, and one tried to start a war with Cuba without us knowing first. NONE were corrupt. Just because you differ in beliefs than a person, does not make the other person corupt.
Whether you like it or not, the politics displayed in this movie were conservative REPUBLICAN politics. It may have been a liberal director, and I know John Cusak is very liberal in real life, but the person he played was a strict, uptight, do anything to get their own way Republican.
Last week the Republicans tried to change the rules in the Senate to make it so the Democrats no longer mattered, and only Republicans would be able to write laws. When the were caught, they then amended that to only approval of judges would get the republican only vote. You can put lipstick on a pig all you want, but its very much republicans who have the do anything for power approach.
No doubt, both of you fellows are fine young men. But both of you need a little more education.
"Carter wasn't smart enough." A millionaire Southern Gentleman, graduate of the Naval Academy, former President of the United States, one of the smoothest diplomats and finest men in the history of our country, wasn't smart enough? For what? You just don't know what you're talking about.
"One tried to start a war with Cuba without us knowing first." Are you kidding with this? JFK didn't even know about this CIA action until almost the last minute. Then he over-rode the CIA's promise to the Bay of Pigs invaders that the U.S. would cover them with airpower, thus causing the entire Cuban exile community to hate him and all Democrats forever. Kennedy even threatened to disband the CIA completely as a result of this fiasco, but backed off this threat and only emasculated them. Some say that's why he was assassinated. His cited actions with the CIA, the resulting hatred of Cuban exiles, and his brother (the AG)'s war with Organized Crime then served as the loose basis for endless conspiracy theories, which continue today - thanks largely to Oliver Stone's terrific but fanciful film.
The Bay of Pigs had to have presidential approval, no I was not kidding. It may have been a CIA operation, but Kennedy (or Nixon as Eisenhouer wanted it) had to review and approve the plan. It was his mistake, and he owned up to it. It was a republican made plan if you wanna critsize that lol.
As for Oliver Stone, that movie is a total lie, and I would rather it not be mentioned. Michael Baden MD did a much better review of that case, and gave 99% proof that "back and to the right" could only come from a frontal bullet. He also noted the entire front part of kennedy's skull was whited out in the X-Rays.
I'm a liberal, but i think you're an idiot Imac, and you're also very naive. the world of politics is corrupt, whether your a democrat or a republican. on a totally unrelated note, i didnt think cusack was a bad guy in this movie.
Skill is successfully walking a tightrope over Niagara Falls. Intelligence is not trying.
Did you read my first post? I said both Democrats and Republicans are guilty of this. I just pointed out that it is a much more conservative ideal than a liberal one, and I am 100% correct in saying that. Nixon, Tom DeLay, George W. Bush, Carl Rove, even to a smaller extent Newt Gingrich. The only democrats I can put in this category are Andrew Jackson (tyrant) and Clinton (whitewater). Other than that I can't think of one liberal minded politician that does that dirty crap.
If you call selling out, corruption, and do anything to get attention "not a bad guy", then you are the naive idiot here, not I.
What shocked me was that this was one of the few times Spader was a character that was a good guy with the exception of Stargate...... he usually would have played the Burton role!!!
By the way it is of no use debating with a Republican; they don't listen or believe in any others opinions but their own.Hence the reason that most of the world hates the U.S. now.......
Just finished this movie- saw it for the first time, actually. I didn't think of Burton as a Republican (though obviously he was) out to screw anybody and do anything he had to in order to get where he wanted to go, but as any generic politician of any party persuasion who wanted the same thing. He could have just as easily been a Democrat or Independent.
I don't think the movie was meant to be a political statement-- just a movie about two friends doing what they feel they need to do.
**It's not that I'm lazy, it's just that I don't care.**
I completely agree. Even though I knew John Cusack was playing a Republican, I didn't think that had much to do with the point of the movie. It was a story of friendship, of corruption, of one man's journey, etc. The movie was more about character development than plot, that's why the political party could have been interchangeable.
I thought this movie was very realistic in the way it portrayed how corruption starts. John Cusack's character was ambitious from the beginning, and was willing to lie about just about everything to give people a different perception of him. What started out as some white lies, eventually grew into some huge life destroying lies.
To the original poster, I was impressed by the writing and acting in this movie. Political statements didn't figure into my enjoyment of the film. And if that's what you walked away with, then I think you missed the point it was trying to convey.
Tomorrow's just your future yesterday!
Seriously, Imac, you should think before you speak. Numerous Dems are dirty, back from when the party was started. That doesn't mean republicans aren't dirty too, but don't be such an ignoramus. Here's just a random sampling of scandals in between Jackson (if you could even consider him a Dem) and Clinton:
1. On July 14, 1983 the House Ethics Committee recommended that Rep. Gerry Studds (D-MA) be reprimanded for having engaged in sexual relationships with minors, specifically 17-year-old congressional pages.
2. Abscam: Of the thirty-one targeted officials, one senator, Harrison A. Williams (D-NJ), and five members of the House of Representatives (John Jenrette (D-SC), Richard Kelly (R-FL), Raymond Lederer (D-PA), Michael "Ozzie" Myers (D-PA), and Frank Thompson (D-NJ), were convicted of bribery and conspiracy in separate trials in 1981.
3. William Jefferson: On 30 July 2005, Jefferson was videotaped by the FBI receiving $100,000 worth of $100 bills in a leather briefcase at the Ritz-Carlton hotel in Arlington, Virginia. A few days later, FBI agents raided Jefferson's home in Northeast Washington and found $90,000 of the cash in the freezer, in $10,000 increments wrapped in aluminum foil and stuffed inside frozen-food containers. Serial numbers found on the currency in the freezer matched serial numbers of funds given by the FBI to their informant.
4. Here's a classic: Wilbur Mills... Stopped by US Park police late at night because his driver had not turned on the lights. Mills was intoxicated, and his face was cut from a scuffle with Fanne Foxe, an Argentine stripper. When police approached the car, Foxe leapt from the car and jumped into the nearby Tidal Basin.
5. Wayne Levere Hayes: Hays hired a woman on his staff, and later gave her a raise to be part of the staff of the House Administration Committee, for two years in order to serve as his mistress.
That's just a snapshot, taken at random, of ethical and financial scandals perpetrated by Dems throughout the last few decades...
And how could I forget this rare specimen of morality and good standing:
William Magear "Boss" Tweed (April 3, 1823 – April 12, 1878) was an American politician and head of Tammany Hall. He was convicted and eventually imprisoned for stealing millions of dollars from the city through political corruption and graft.
You just gave me 6 examples from the last 25 years of democratic ethic flaws......
Here are rebpulican scandals just from 2005 on.....
AG Alberto Gonzales fires US Attroney's for political reasons
Bush nominates his personal lawyer for the supreme court
After saying he was doing a "great job" just 48 hours before the elction, Bush fires Don Rumsfeld following a landslide democratic victory.
Adding 25,000 more troops to Iraq
Scooter Libby
Abu Grabib
Tom Delay
Dick Cheney Shoots a man in the face
I can continue this, but I hope you are getting the point here.....
Just out of curiousity, is there an R or D on your voters registration???
My friend, you are missing the point of my response. I admitted that both parties had probably an equal amount of ethically-challenged members. I was simply refuting the asinine statement that between the time of Tammany Hall and today there were no major democratic scandals. I picked a random bunch, but there are hundreds more, just as there are hundreds more for republicans. So any mention of republicans simply confirms the point I was initially making.
I am a new yorker, and am witness to massive perpetrations of fraud by the democratic party every week, on a municipal, county and state level. I will tell you that the only reason we don't see more republican scandal is because there are few republicans in the state.
And just so you know, I am a reagan republican, though very upset at the present course the party has taken.
As a new Yorker, you should hate people like Rudy Guliani, and Bloomberg, not the Democrates. One thing thats pretty backwards abuot NY is that 90% of the population is liberal, but 90% of the city and state government is republican.
Now, back to the point here, my entire point of this thread was that this movie points out that more often than not, it is indeed republicans who have ethic flaws, not the democrates. If we looked at EVERY SINGLE "scandel" from the last 50 years (I would cut it off at Kennedy personally, that is when modern politics began) I am willing to put a lot of money on the table saying republicans have the majority.
The biggest democratic scandels of that time period are the bay of pigs, johnson's escalation of veitnam, and clinton getting blown in the oval office lol.
On the republican side, its Dick Nixon becoming a "crook", Reagon funding Osama Bin Laden, Reagon providing weapons to the Contra's for political gain (and enpowering Iran at the same time), Bush 1 not having the balls to finish off Sadam Hussain when he had the chance, and Bush 2 bringing our country from the most beloved nation in 2001 to the most hated (statistically proven) in under 3 years.
Forget all of the little stupid scandals that don't have a major national influence, these are the scandels that do.
You are entirely wrong about NYC Municipal Government, which is all union, democrat, working families party, and state government, which is all democratic (the legislature has been dominated by them for the last 30 years, as are more most non-elected senior executive positions) and unions. As a regan republican, I would in no way be welcome at any level of municipal or state government, either as an employee, as a recipient of services or patronage, or even just philosophically. Every borough president and 48 out 51 city councillors are working families party or democrats. Every municipal/government and industry union that operates in the political landscape of the city openly associates with and supports the wfp or the democrats. Every community board and police precinct board, except for a few out in queens, are controlled by democrats. Every district in the metropolitan area is gerrymandered all to hell in favor of the democrats. Out of 1200 republican clubs originally in NYC, there are now only 20 or so left. 1 out of the last three mayors has been democrat, and Bloomberg is essentially a democrat wearing republican trappings. Out of the last 1,000 or so races against democratic incumbents in the city, only a handful have been unseated and mostly by fellow dems, not republicans. So, I'm really not sure where you see this undue republican influence in the city.
With respect to national politics from Kennedy onward, I'll certainly take your bet. In fact, I'll bet you that the rate of corruption for the two parties has probably been about equivalent, both on "Major" and "Minor" corruption scandals. You're giving me this limited list of what you think are the most significant scandals, but it is in no way complete. You seem to have no working knowledge of the day-to-day levels of corruption, influence peddling, bribery, manipulation of personal shortcomings and failings and other unethical/unprofessional behavior done by both parties in the process of governing.
I apolgize about the NY thing, I was assuming that with a republican Governer, and an steady line of republican NYC mayors, the NY government was mainly R. If they Dems have the inner control, then it is probably more of a 50/50 thing.
As for national scandels, of course I know their is corruption from everyone. From Bill Clinton hiring his buddies to run the travel office so he could give away free vacations, to bush having Arlen Spector pass a congressional bill to end congressional oversight on US Attroney's (which lead to the whole scandal we have now), every president abuses power in some way.
But please go ahead, find every single scandal you can ( I am sure some website has them all listed) and I bet you will have an eye opener. Republicans are far more ruthless in their politics than democrates, and that is the sole reason they win elections.
It's kind of a like an abusive spouse. You can get the crap beat out of you, but you still love their "toughness".
Since you are a "reagan republican" I am curious, do you hate or love Bush? Considering he has taken Reaganomics and Reagan foreign policy, and twisted them more than terrorists have the quaran, I was just wondering if you are one of the "kool-aide" people.
Don't worry about the ny thing. It's tough being a republican here.
I am very disappointed with the bush administration (though not necessarily with him, personally), both from a fiscal perspective and a social perspective. Fiscally, his tax cuts seem to be based on nothing more than campaign promises rather than on a coherent plan on stimulating the economy and increasing personal freedom. He's done more to increase taxes than bill clinton, and has subverted the traditional, constitutional process of putting bills into effect as law.
On the social side, I am completely opposed to his bringing any kind of "christian" sensibility or religious conscience to social policy. Everything from money for stem cell research to our party's stance on abortion and gay marriage is wrong-headed, as far as I am concerned.
And the war on terror-- well, I think everyone can agree that's not going as well as we'd hoped. Poor, sloppy political strategy and military tactics in Iraq, crazy neoconservative theories being put to practice, completely ignoring the religious and cultural dynamics at play in Iraq, and a refusal to rely on modern U.S. history (esp. in Vietnam).... I am very frightened for our futures with respect to the increased domestic intelligence presence infringing on people's rights.
Careful, Cheney, Delay, Karl Rove, and the rest of the neocons might call you a traitor and blame you for their next scandal lol.
shareMaybe, but its a risk I'm willing to take! :*)
shareBtw, its ironic, but the closest thing in the next election to a "reganite" is actually Al Gore (if he runs) lol. Fred Thompson is a nixon guy, Guliani is a democrat with an R on his voter ID, and McCaine has gone from maverick, to flip flopper lol. I think your party is about to go into a 20 year down cycle.
shareMC and Guiliani are as close as we'll get to real fiscal republicans in the Reagan mold. I don't really know Fred T's politcs very well, though I am intrigued. And don't count Romney out-- that guy's got some serious administrative and executive abilities, no matter how much he makes himself look like a fool on the circuit.
T. Thompson, Huckabee, Hunter, Tancredo, Brownback, Hagel, Gingrich and Cox aren't going anywhere, either because they are too extreme, have too low a profile or are too mired in scandal.
Al Gore would be a nightmare for all parties. Even if he does have a streak of blue dog democrat in him, he would not fill the seat of the president very comfortably, and might actually cause problems for us internationally.
Gore is loved Internationally for his "incovenient truth" tour. The only country I can think of that would be dissapointed with him is Austrailia.
share"I know this movie is fiction, but this truely shows how Republicans act/think. They are willing to lie, cheat, and screw over anyone and anything to get the power they crave. Yes, yes I know some Democrates are just as guilty, but this is much much more of a conservative ideal than a liberal one. This movie is a very good example of why Republicans are so currupt."
your main point "Democrats are just as guilty" is an important one.
this movie is showing how power can corrupt, and why democrats are almost as bad as republicans in that respect. Congressmen and women, governers, and presidential candidates answer to lobbyists and special interest groups no matter what political affiliation they are. But more often than not they are either Democrat or Republican.
You sure you want to say that with that lobbyist scandel now going on? What is it 90% republican kickbacks that are in question? That just goes to further my point that both parties are guilty, but conservatives use this illegal tact much more than liberals.
share"That just goes to further my point that both parties are guilty, but conservatives use this illegal tact much more than liberals."
i dont think conservatives and liberals are equatable to democrats and republicans.
once you label yourself as a democrat or a republican you slowly seep into the fold of corruption no matter who you are. Liberals and conservatives alone usually havent reached this level yet.
When people think of the Democratic party, they think of liberals. When they think of the Republican party, they think of conservatives. Thats just how it is.
It's sad though, the Democratic party was founded to be a conservative minded party, and the Republican party began as a fanatical liberal party (Abe Lincoln perfect example). Strange how things can be.
It was refreshing to see James Spader play a good guy. He was convincing, so I guess he must be a better actor than I thought.
Yup, both Dems and Reps are slime. I do think he was a Rep in this one, however. The father in law acted like one and Peter's acceptance speech sounded very Republican.
I say this as someone who has worked as a political reporter and was once offered a job as a Congressional aide.
You Americans need to stop defining everybody by their political allegiance based on a crazy two party differentiation. You'd almost think republican/democrat is as much a slur and useless blanket statement as something like white or black.
There are crooked and corruptible people from all walks of life at all ends and everywhere in between the spectrum.
I was about to jump on the US Two-party race as well - coming from NZ, with it's Mixed Memorable Proportional Representation and 2 votes per head - but then, America is very big and the politics very unwieldy, so I guess people there think in broad strokes mostly.
Everybody I show this film to goes, "Wow,Cusack's playing sleazier than SPADER?". We had a theory that maybe they originally read for the opposite parts, but were cast against type. Good job, I say!
"Television's not the truth! Television's a goddam amusement park!"
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Democrats. Republicans. Politics is politics. You are delusional if you think one party is less or more corrupt than the other.
Did they say outright that Burton was a Republican? I just watched this movie last night and while there were hints, I don't think they ever fully established that? Or did I miss something?
Not that I disagree with you about a lot of the GOP, lol, but I'm trying to get the most accurate info here. ;)
No they never "out right said it".... but he was propegating a republican agenda in the movie.
shareOr maybe just politicians in general?
Look at that turtle go bro!
I know this movie is fiction, but this truely shows how Republicans act/think. They are willing to lie, cheat, and screw over anyone and anything to get the power they crave. Yes, yes I know some Democrates are just as guilty, but this is much much more of a conservative ideal than a liberal one. This movie is a very good example of why Republicans are so currupt.
You've GOT to be kidding! Democrats are WAY more corrupt than Republicans. When a Republican loses an election he issues a concession speech. When a Democrat/Socialist loses an election he lawyers up and demands a recount. Democrats are scum!
Schrodinger's cat walks into a bar, or doesn't.