I honestly do not understand what is so great about this movie. - Thelma & Louise (1991) Discussion

[–] novastar_6 12 years ago

What's great about it is it puts two women up front doing what men ordinarily do in every action movie and makes them the outlaws, anti-hero, whatever.

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[–] Superspectrum 12 years ago

It's also beautifully written and acted by the two leads, and slickly directed by Ridley Scott in a way that's not just empty flash. A classic of 90s cinema.

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[–] SinemaGirl 12 years ago

OP, if you have to come here with that question, it doesn't seem the "Cinema Appreciation" class is working so well.

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[–] GoTheDistance 8 years ago

On the contrary ... this was probably the final exam: If you can Appreciate this movie you get an A.

Steps to a great life:

Watch Twilight Zone
Listen to Wayne Dyer
Go vegan

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[–] intofilm 12 years ago

It came out at a time when women's position in society wasn't the same as now. I remember what a hot topic it was in women's discussion groups. It made women feel empowered in a sense: the scene with the truck driver; the choice to not be captured at the end. Also because it displayed in a way most movies didn't at the time, how some men are understanding and symapthetic, others are brutal and exploitative.

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[–] activista 10 years ago

@intofilm

It came out at a time when women's position in society wasn't the same as now.

What? We're talking about the early '90s here,not the 1950's. And there had already been films made like this in the 1970s (mainly kung-fu and blaxsploitation films) with women being the action heroes, but they tended to be made out of the mainstream. I do remember the film being a big deal when it came out, and wondering why it was such a big deal---probably because as always, the majority of action films were dominated by males,period---and T&L was obviously refreshing break from that at the time.

Here's a forerunner to THELMA & LOUISE---a 1976 indie flick called THE GREAT DYNAMITE CHASE, aka DYNAMITE WOMEN---about two women robbing banks--this is a Japanese trailer for it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wsGjCALMRM

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[–] Wuchak (8104) 4 years ago

the majority of action films were dominated by males,period---and T&L was obviously refreshing break from that at the time.

The problem is "Thelma & Louise" isn't an action film. It's a crime drama/road movie with a few thrills.

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[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

The point still stands though - there wernt many women in " drama/road movie with a few thrills." either.
ironicly if it were made today the keyboard warriors of the internet , and this site particularly , would be all like:

"oh no ! women"
"Theyre throwing it in mu face!"
"I dont want to be lectured!"
"propaganda!"
"agenda"
"pc gone mad!"

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[–] Wuchak (8104) 4 years ago

I doubt it since, what is the lecture, the propaganda, the agenda of "Thelma & Louise"? That women make stupid decisions, including choosing the wrong men, rashly (and needlessly) becoming criminals (including abusing innocent people), committing suicide and prematurely dying? That's not empowerment, that's glaring folly.

The first eight "Friday the 13th" flicks came out between 1980-1989 -- well before "T&L" -- and they all showed true female empowerment with unlikely women rising to the challenge and kicking axx. Same thing with "Halloween" (1978) and the ensuing franchise. Actually, there are all kinds of genuine female empowerment books, flicks & shows that go back decades, including "Tarzan and the Golden Lion" (1922), "The Wizard of Oz" (1939), "Devil Girl from Mars" (1954), "Gunslinger" (1956), "Hannie Caulder" (1971) and "Kansas City Bomber" (1972), and TV shows like Star Trek, Police Woman, Wonder Woman and Bionic Woman (obviously Star Trek wasn't a female empowerment show, but it displayed quite a bit of it, like the female first officer in the pilot episode and, later, the female Romulan Commander; that was the mid-60s).

"Thelma & Louise" is well-made and compelling enough, but the elephant in the room is its message for women is lousy. It's not a female empowerment film, but rather a female folly flick. It could be subtitled: "Girls... How to Make Really Stupid Decisions, Ruin your Life and Needlessly Die Young."

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[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

I see your point, they are "flawed" characters, so they wouldnt go for the Mary sue diatribe, but
That wouldnt bother the keyboard warriors. They see a film without a white man in the lead and they get all outraged and say hollywood has done that deliberately.
The film could be that life and times of Ann Frank and they wouldnt get the logic.

All your examples are pre internet This is a 21st centuray phenomenon.

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[–] Wuchak (8104) 4 years ago

I was intentionally citing older stuff to establish that female empowerment books/flicks/shows were nothing new when "T&L" was released in '91.

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[–] fire_bat777 12 years ago

It's under the same lines as rap songs that are singing about getting bitches and slapping hos. It's a gender-empowerment thing. Back when it came out, there wasn't many movies that had this type of slant on a situation like this.

All in all, the message is garbage. It basically says that it's okay to murder a man, rob stores, blow up a semi, and kill yourself because you feel oppressed as a woman. It says that instead of doing the difficult thing: Leaving your husband, starting over, and getting out of a bad situation that you should just do whatever you need to do in order to feel free.

I know I'm going to catch hell for saying a rapist shouldn't be murdered, but in this movie it was emotion and not threat that caused Louise to murder someone.

The movie was praised and received well because of WHEN it came out. If you take the time to really analyze this movie you'll see a lot of recurring themes.

- Thelma can't pick a decent man to save her life (literally). She's a victim of her own desires. Once she gets what she thinks she wants, it's a disaster.

- Louise is damaged goods. Her excuse for being the way she is comes from men treating her poorly. Even though she now has a decent man (Jimmy), she can't get over her past. Her inability to forgive, combined with her hatred, causes her to do incredibly stupid things repeatedly.

- Darryl is the cookie cutter bad husband. This is done simply to allow the female audience to hate him and allow them to sympathize with T&L thus making them the "anti-heroins".

- Jimmy is the good guy that is stuck with a woman with too much baggage for them to ever have a long-lasting and fulfilling relationship. This character is used to allow the men watching to have a character to sympathize with.

Was it a good movie for its time? Sure. Did it age well? Not really. This story has been regurgitated so many times at this point that watching T&L fresh wouldn't impress you much, if at all.

Fire Bat
Only a fool would deny God.

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[–] novastar_6 12 years ago

Murder a man? No, murder takes premeditation and as Louise said they were walking away, she had not PLANNED to just shoot Harlan otherwise she would've done it when he had Thelma pinned against the car. Besides, everybody who knew him said he got what was coming to him anyway so in his death there is no great loss, pretty much no loss at all, everybody knew what he was like.

And WHERE does the movie say it's okay to do any of this? Oh that's right, IT DOESN'T, it's only saying THIS is what happens when THESE women make THESE choices. People BLAME this movie so much saying it advocates this, promotes that, blah blah blah, by that logic we should go after EVERY male action movie because in that case they glorify brutal senseless murders tenfold of this movie.

And if you think this movie can't impress anybody today, I think it says plenty of how jaded YOU are about movies that do have this attitude of assertive female leads who are suddenly doing the things the men usually do instead of staying home barefoot and pregnant and doing laundry.

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[–] fire_bat777 12 years ago

Whew. Where to start with you? You're quite obviously a very mad woman. I'll try to go step by step...

Was Louise justified (legally) in pointing a pistol at a man to stop her from raping or sexually assaulting her friend? I'm willing to bet any lawyer could argue that it was a reasonable use of force. I'm not going to take the time to post a legal definition of murder here for you, because you won't read it or you'll ignore it. Her actions absolutely fit the legal definition of murder. It fits so well, in fact, that later in the movie when Louise bring up the murder and Thelma asks if it was self defense Louise says that "it wasn't. We were walking away, we got away". Hal also says that they're going to be charged with murder. So, you're wrong in the legal definition and in the film's view of the matter.

Your personal opinion on a man's worth as an individual has no bearing on the definition of a crime in the eyes of the law. It also makes me wonder who you think you are that you have the ability to say whether someone deserves to live after only seeing them on screen from 12:21-20:44. So, in the span of 8 minutes and 23 seconds you somehow have the almighty ability to know if someone deserves to live or die huh?

Your second paragraph made me laugh a little bit. I can tell just how frustrated you are with life. Take it easy, stress kills. I didn't "blame" this movie for anything. Does it "advocate" certain acts being okay when someone is pushed a little too far? Is sure tries to. What we have here is very much an anti-hero movie. The job of the director is to get you to sympathize with the leads even though they aren't good people or they're doing terrible things.

And, quite obviously, the OP wasn't impressed with this film and I can see why. I just watched this today for the first time in years and can 100% say that, if it was released now, it offers nothing new or groundbreaking whatsoever. Am I "jaded" about certain types of movies? Sure. We've seen the rom-com hundreds of times. Everyone has seen the film about the guy that likes the girl and they're friends and they want to get together and are too scared to tell each other. We've seen the Michael Bay type movies that have almost no plot but tons of pyrotechnics and fancy camera work. Am I jaded? I don't think so. I think bored would be a more accurate description.

I also LOVE how you assume that just because I'm critical of this movie that I have some sort of less-than-equal view towards women. Not everyone that criticizes a film about women is a male chauvinist.

Fire Bat
Only a fool would deny God.

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[–] wardiego 12 years ago

I LOVE how you assume that just because novastar_6 doesn't agree with you he or she is a very mad woman that's very frustrated with her life.

Not everyone that likes this film is like this, you don't possess the absolute truth.

You also say, I quote : "This story has been regurgitated so many times at this point that watching T&L fresh wouldn't impress you much, if at all."

Well please, give me 5 or 10 movies with the same plot and that are as good or better than Thelma & Louise.

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[–] novastar_6 12 years ago

Yeah really, how many women road trip movies are there? I can think of 2, this and I think one called Leaving Normal, and I never saw that one. How many 2 women mistakenly become fugitives of the law and race to Mexico movies have been made?

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[–] ajtaylor82 11 years ago

I love how YOU criticize everyone if they disagree with you. I was wondering what your deal is and why you're so end all-be all about everything but then I see your Jesus freak signature. Makes perfect sense.

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[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Suchaprettybird 9 years ago

You are obviously a sore, bitter male with a huge chip on his shoulder. There, there, sweetie.

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[–] SinemaGirl 12 years ago

Was it a good movie for its time? Sure. Did it age well? Not really. This story has been regurgitated so many times at this point that watching T&L fresh wouldn't impress you much, if at all.

I hosted two screenings of this movie a couple of years ago. The audiences were mixed, and of various ages. Many (if not most) had not seen it before. Based on their reactions, individually and collectively, it clearly maintains the same impact it had when I saw it in 1991. And the males were even more vociferious in their support of T&L than the females were!

So yes, it continues to impress.

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[–] fire_bat777 12 years ago

So because you screened this movie twice, "a couple years ago", and you had mixed reactions you're telling me that your scientific conclusion is that it still continues to impress? Really?

I think a far more accurate synopsis of your experience would be that the movie (to those having not seen it before) garners reactions from both sexes based on the film's content, characters, and story.

Fire Bat
Only a fool would deny God.

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[–] SinemaGirl 12 years ago

Your reading comprehension amazes me. I did not say the movie got a mixed reaction, but rather the audience was mixed (men, women, younger, older). The reaction was overwhelmingly positive, among those new to, and familiar with, the movie.

PLUS, I never said my experience was scientific. Such examples are always anecdotal, but I didn't think something else so obvious had to be clarified either. However, if the film "garners reactions from both sexes based on the film's content, characters, and story" even recently, then I would say anecdotally it remains effective.

You offered an opinion based on your personal view on how this movie has aged. I responded with an actual experience which differs. That's all.

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[–] fire_bat777 12 years ago

Oh, excuse me all to hell, so sorry I misread your post on a Saturday morning before my cup of coffee.

So, we could say that a screening of "Two Girls, One Cup" could also be a very effective anecdotal piece of cinema? By your definition it would fit :)

On a side note: You have to give Ridley Scott a ton of credit here. He gets you to sympathize with two women that lose all control, sense of reality, become a murderer & armed robber, lock a cop in a trunk in the desert, AND leaves you walking away feeling good about the film even though both leads commit suicide.

For its time, the story was the first most had seen that touched on the subject matter in the way T&L did. It's an average movie by today's standards, and has a great director.

Fire Bat
Only a fool would deny God.

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[–] SinemaGirl 12 years ago

By the antagonistic tone of your posts, I'd say you might want to lay off that coffee, or at least switch to decaf.

I'm not sure what an "anecdotal piece of cinema" is. I was referring to reactions of patrons exiting a theater--an anecdotal sampling perhaps. If "2 Girls 1 Cup" elicits the same reaction in 20 years, then its effectiveness remains as well. If it no longer has the same impact, I will weep for our society.

YOU brought up your opinion that the movie is no longer effective. I merely responded with a personal experience which contradicts your (well considered, I'm sure) opinion. The fact that anyone can get so worked up about it over 20 years later is validation of its longevity.

Even the screenwriter says the protagonists made horrible choices. It is indeed a testament to Ridley Scott, as well as the actors, that not only were the characters, flawed as they are, surprisingly endearing, but the phrase "Thelma & Louise" itself connotes a particular (if not necessarily flattering) type of woman.

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[–] fire_bat777 12 years ago

I'm familiar with the screenwriter. I believe she told critics of the movie to "shut the *beep* up". You want someone that has a strong opinion? There she is! At least I'm willing to concede that to a lot of women this is like their own personal "I will overcome" movie.

I'm actually not worked up about it, merely disappointed that with all the other fine movies about women overcoming bad situations that this one seems to top the lists. Really look at movies with women in the lead roles that make the same point, with a lot of the same circumstances, and the characters take positive actions instead of negative ones:

A Coal Miner's Daughter
Baby Boom
Erin Brockovich
Fried Green Tomatoes
The Color Purple
Million Dollar Baby
Places in the Heart
The Terminator (yeah, I'm pushing it here)
The Silence of the Lambs

These are just the ones that I could think of off the top of my head. All these movies contain female leads that are somehow oppressed by the world of men. Instead of rebelling and losing all control, they concentrate their emotions, determination, and desire in a positive direction. Far better than just losing it and turning into felons.

I think all the movies I just listed do a far better job empowering women than Thelma and Louise and didn't get the credit they deserved (well, some didn't) Just my two cents. I just feel there are far better films to show people that provide a far more positive view on women being equal and feeling empowered.

Fire Bat
Only a fool would deny God.

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[–] SinemaGirl 12 years ago

You have some great titles there--and I'm on board with the Terminator movies, too. Although Fried Green Tomatoes with its "barbecue" scene, skirts the edge what kind of "empowerment" is appropriate, however entertaining it may have been.

Other than two women who actually went on a misguided T&L inspired crime spree shortly after the movie opened, I don't know of anyone who uses this movie as a guide for female empowerment. More like a catharsis. It is among my favorites, but I don't particularly see these women as role models. It's just a great buddy-road movie to me. More like Vanishing Point with double-X chromosomes (if Kowalski had a buddy).

It has always seemed to me that more are offended by this movie than take it to heart. And I'm not talking along gender lines here. Just about every man who has seen this movie says the rapist got off easy, and suggested punishment which would make our "heroines" considerably less sympathetic.

And I don't know any woman who uses this as their "I will overcome" movie, merely for the fact they don't overcome. Again, this goes back to the screenwriter who was aghast at the audience cheers when the rapist is shot. I don't recall that quote of hers you posted, but her position has always been this was a "Butch and Sundance" type of movie with women, and was genuinely surprised by all the controversy it generated. And all the controversy it still generates. Perhaps because it became greater than the sume of its (often very impressive) parts.

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[–] novastar_6 12 years ago

Maybe not role models but I do think you can consider Louise's line 'you got what you settled for' as a wakeup call because most people don't think in terms of that, just that oh this person is in this bad marriage, bad position, etc., they never think of they just settled for that and could settle for something better.

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[–] pc-daisy 12 years ago

I agree with you. Rather than role models, my impression was that the movie was a mix of messages/themes. Certainly, when it came out, things were very different in society. It always amuses me that posters on these sites don't seem to consider a film in the context of the time of it's release. Some films are ahead of their time, too.

Not too sure about those viewing it in the US, but it seemed to be a film for it's time in history for me.

My personal experience with assult meant that I viewed T&L sympathetically up to and including the shooting of the would-be rapist. I could sure relate to that. And certainly in those times, there was a tendency to blame the victim for sexual assault to some degree. Still is in some countries, moreso than in others that's for sure. I was profoundly sympathetic to Louise as she didn't mean to kill him, his taunting after brutalizing her friend really wound her up.

Thelma was the real criminal, as it turned out, she was the one who said she couldn't go back and that something had 'crossed over' in her. Also, she was the one who hung up the phone on Louise telling her "not to blow it" when it seemed Louise was building a rapport with Hal and maybe there would be a way back to normality for her.
Don't forget Thelma didn't shoot the rapist, so she wouldn't have gone to the gas chamber for that. But the robbing of the shop was purely pre-meditated.
But ultimately for me, it was a message of how fear and past experience can allow things to snowball and get completely out of hand.

Why have none of you previous posters mentioned the JD character stealing their money? (Sorry if you have and I missed it). My impression of Jimmy was that he lacked the ability to commit to a relationship and only realized what he had when he feared he had lost it. Not an uncommon occurance!

But for the women, finding themsleves fugitives and without funds must have been mindblowing and would lead to some bad choices in my opinion.

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[–] novastar_6 12 years ago

And you know, it truly is sexist because movies have men committing robbery, armed robbery all the time, nobody cares. Men can shoot anybody with or without a reason, it's okay, they can blow up anything in sight, it's all good, MEN can do what the hell ever and they're not called on to be role models while they're robbing and killing but you put two women in a similar position and suddenly OH WHAT HORRIBLE ROLE MODELS FOR WOMEN!

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[–] pc-daisy 12 years ago

yes and to go to a step further, men can kill each other but can't kiss?

Yet, no-one seems to mind two women kissing. Double/different values and standards all over the place!

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[–] bthr 11 years ago

women are not oppressed, no one is making SOME women to be a house-wife.(well not always but sometimes yes.) most of the time this job is something their mother used to do.
thelma's husband never cheated (as far as we know) or hit her. where is the oppression ?
oppression is something that happens to minorities, when they dont have the option of escaping life of misery.

this movie is really not so amazing, but it is a good one. they succeed in turning the villains to heroes and the heroes to villains. this is not a plot that can be seen alot, ever, and they did it well.

i find the plot pretty mediocre, two characters characters get in a car, kill someone and get into a chase with memorable ending. done before and will be made again later.

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[–] Mind_blowing 12 years ago

This is a very shortsighted and generalized assessment. On what basis have you deduced this?

This movie, irrespective of gender, is certainly among those, which show the ugly side of human behavior. This is the crux.

Yes! The lead women depicted in this movie are absolutely HORRIBLE ROLE MODELS for women. They shouldn't be regarded as ROLE MODELS at all. Controversial aspect is that the story tends to be sympathetic towards them.

The above is also true for the men who exploited these women; Harlan and J.D., in particular.

In case of Harlan; both him and Thelma are guilty but Harlan moreso. Thelma aroused the man to such a degree that he attempted to rape her. On the other hand, Harlan turned out to be a pervert and couldn't control himself when a woman gave him some attention.

In case of J.D.; once again both him and Thelma are guilty - equally this time. Thelma cheats on her husband with this man - looks factor, I presume. On the other hand, J.D. is only interested in bedding her and shows his true colors afterwards by theft and leaving her.

Now coming towards the men who were related to the lead women; Jimmy has my sympathy. On the other hand, Darryl is stupid but he is committed (not a cheater at least).

If sexism is the argument then this movie is actually biased in favor of women but ends up degrading them ironically.

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[–] SinemaGirl 12 years ago

pc-daisy, you are spot-on with your thoughts on this, IMO. Sorry to learn of your experience. I'm sure it brings a significantly different perspective to this movie.

And novastar-6, you make perfect points as well. The fact that this movie continues to be singled out for vilification over the protagonists' actions is pure gender discrimination. No need to go into the double-standard again, but after 21 years, this quality continues to amaze (and yes, dare I say, impress) me.

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[–] jtf1986 12 years ago

"All these movies contain female leads that are somehow oppressed by the world of men. Instead of rebelling and losing all control, they concentrate their emotions, determination, and desire in a positive direction. Far better than just losing it and turning into felons."

You seem to be mixing up what a better reaction to oppression in real life would be with what would make a better movie.

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] amber-yinixu 12 years ago

It's a feminist classic, you rarely see movies like this. It basically mocks all the road movies that solely contains two buddies or a heterosexual couple.

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[–] AlexSefton 12 years ago

The gender of the protagonist(s) isn't what makes this film great. People have put women as the hero since 1950s or earlier. Watch Shadow of A Doubt (1943), for example.

In my opinion, this movie is great because it has a lot of elements in it that make people want to invest emotionally in the characters, yet at the same time it is a tragedy. The ending, especially, is really strong. The music also complements the scenes and successfully builds up emotion for the audience. Great actors/actresses. They all come together and create this powerful show.

I especially love the element of friendship between Thelma and Louise, and how the plot shows two seemingly ordinary people change to extraordinary through a series of events which aren't hyped by the writer(s) that they are quite plausible.

I admit this movie has some flaws, but, if you have extensively contemplated on the meaning of life and on the subject of death, you'll might be able to appreciate this movie even more.

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[–] popthree 12 years ago

This is a film about nothing and no ones!

Check My Guitar Video here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXVYXprSS_c

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[–] Degree7 12 years ago

Because it's a great, funny, heartwarming, and eye-opening movie!

A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it. - Roger Ebert

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[–] DeadPersephone 12 years ago

It has a perfectly constructed script. That is the most obvious reason that many film-makers regard it as a classic.

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