MovieChat Forums > Terminator 2: Judgment Day (1991) Discussion > Problems with Terminator 2

Problems with Terminator 2

posted 4 years ago by Heisenberg (6282)
31 replies | jump to latest

This movie is awesome, one of the best ever, one of my favorites.
But nothing is perfect, so here's my nitpicking list (to be continued):
(it's about the THEATRICAL version, so no complaints about smiling classes here)

Too many coincidences:
1 Sarah escapes the minute they are coming for her. Ok, so she saw new t101 pics. She didn't waste one second to make a plan or anything.
2 BOTH John and t1000 make the exact same "get to Sarah plan" the very same moment...It could have worked better if t101 said something like "according to my execution plan, t1000 next move is to replace your mom". At least they would have explained the perfect synch in a believable way. No, it's John deciding this and he's sharp by a matter of seconds!
3 t1000 hijacks a liquid nitrogen truck. What are the odds of that truck not being manure?
4 Heroes escape in a steel factory. Not by choice, nor strategy. It was just there where their car was pushed in the chase.
5 t1000 is dropped into a furnace. Not by choice, nor strategy. It was just there when they had no other option but shoot him. And they actually don't push him or anything, he just falls in (...thank god he does! Cuz they all just stare at him hoping he does...)

"I know the script" moments:
t101 takes off the skin on his hand to show Dyson...what? That he's a cyborg? Did he know that he had the hand of his brother in his lab? How did he? It could have worked perfectly if they spent a line saying that skynet or future John knew that they recovered the chip and the hand. Otherwise, it's another coincidence, a pretty unnecessary dramatic one (wouldn't he just do something a bit less self damaging? What if they later on needed to pass him as human? Sarah made that point 20 minutes before "you self heal? good, it's important that we can pass you as human". wtf, did Cameron forget he just wrote that?)

t1000 in pain...
1 why would a melted metal machine be in pain when he gets shot in the belly with a granade bullet? What's there to do other than take a minute to reprogram his parts to form another humanoid form? No, he stands there baffled, screaming in pain. As if it didn't get shattered into a million drops 10 minutes before...
2 Later on, he drops in the melting furnace. Why the screaming and painful expressions? I can go with the thrusting in the liquid, since it was trying to swim out. But the yelling? And the painful face he makes? (Also, who's the stripper there in that little "best of" montage???)

t101 not acting like a terminator:
1 at the end he says he understands crying. Why would he? Maybe he was referring to the little performance given by his brother in the lava a minute before, he looked like he was crying.
Also, it didn't work in the moment, would have been more tragic and sad if he didn't understand the sentiment but simply sympathized with John, and he just kept going with his new mission without all this "I'm turning into a human" bs.
2 he picks up a gatling gun and smiles. Ok, it's a great scene. But would the terminator from the first film smile at John like that? It would have been better if he posed with it confidently, as in "this fits like a glove", and John could have commented "that's definitely you" and smiled at him all the same.

I'm sure I'm forgetting something now, but anyway, what's on your list?

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

Nothing, the movie is perfect and you're just in love with the new woke Terminator movie.

[–] actionkamen (23176) 4 years ago

Oh come on... it's just an action movie, not a peer reviewed scientific journal or something. The coincidence were needed to make cool scenes. Would you rather seeing them chased by a manure truck? That would be silly. Liquid nitrogen truck is logically the better choice. Your nitpicking is beyond ridiculous.

[–] Heisenberg (6282) 4 years ago

No, I don't need them to use a manure truck, mine was a reference to BTTF who repeteadly used manure trucks on Biff and pointed out themselves how silly was this coincidence in the movie. But that's comedy.
In T2 case, not explaining this unbelievable coincidence in any way, not even with irony, it's just bad writing. I agree that these coincidences had to be there for the awesome action, I just wish they motivated them a bit better.
Nitpicking is nitpicking, there's no level of ridicolousness in mine.
It's a great action movie, I wish these little mistakes were not there.

[–] crc32 (2584) 4 years ago

In T2 case, not explaining this unbelievable coincidence in any way, not even with irony, it's just bad writing. I agree that these coincidences had to be there for the awesome action, I just wish they motivated them a bit better.

Thats what I thought. Your demanding a chekov's gun for an actual chekov's gun.

The purpose of a chekhov's gun is to prevent the perception of a Deus Ex Machina IE an ass pull. IE strories where some one finds a gun at the very end to use on a bad guy would seem like an Ass Pull if the gun wasn;t shown or described earlier in the story. You on the other hand want an expository scene to show some dick driving a nitrogene truck. IE When the nitrogen truck is interrduced there is no way you could have known it would have been used to freeze the terminator. The fact that a nitrogen truck is on the freeway at this point is already a chekhov's gun to avoid a Deus Ex Machina when the terminator gets frozen at the end. Now your demanding that an expository shot be included in the film to explain why a nitrogene truck was on the freeway tobegin with. Its not a stretch imagine that we'd have trucks carrying hazardous materials on the industrial side of town (We're already seeing shots of the steel mill at this point so we know where in an industrial area), This chase is taking place on a freeway to begin with. If a cargo plane dropped a container of niroge been in the story sure you'd have a point but this is a freewa in the industrial area where trucks with hazardous cargo are already common. Your complaint would have been more ligitimate if you had complained this was too close to the ending of terminator 1 where a fuel truck was used to damage and glitch out the terminator. The cynical side of me feels like you won't be happy untill we have expository shots of the big bang leading up to this truck on the freeway, at which you'll just complain the story is boring.

[–] Heisenberg (6282) 2 years ago

No, your only solution is crap, and not what I am talking about at all.
A good and easy fix would be for the good guys to make a PLAN to have the t1000 frozen at any point, so the Chekov's gun happens in an acceptable way.
Like, they are the ones picking that truck with that exact purpose, and they smash it on the t1000 to freeze it. Or they notice it hijacked it randomly, so try to have it frozen by it on purpose.
In the movie instead it plays a series of coincidences that are just too much:
1 t1000 rams them, causing an accident
2 a liquid nitrogen truck happens to be right there
3 t1000 picks such a sporty vehicle to chase 'em
4 he manages to tip the nitrogen all over himself
5 he freezes
6 there is a furnace right there so he melts again...

[–] MrFilmJunkie (857) 4 years ago

Too many coincidences:
1 Sarah escapes the minute they are coming for her. Ok, so she saw new t101 pics. She didn't waste one second to make a plan or anything.

well, you explained youself why this isn't a coincidence.

t1000 in pain...
1 why would a melted metal machine be in pain when he gets shot in the belly with a granade bullet? What's there to do other than take a minute to reprogram his parts to form another humanoid form? No, he stands there baffled, screaming in pain. As if it didn't get shattered into million drops 10 minutes before...
2 Later on, he drops in the melting furnace. Why the screaming and painful expressions? I can go with the thrusting in the liquid, since it was trying to swim out. But the yelling? And the painful face he makes?

the main reasons is it looks more dramatic for the audience, of course. but what appears to look like he was "baffled, screaming in pain" could also be interpreted as him being severely damaged / not functionning well. that's one of the things that got a bit lost in the theatrical version. in the director's cut it's clearer that the t-1000 has become very glitchy after his nitrogen incident.

the "why are you crying" stuff doesn't make much sense to me either. if he has detailed files on human anatomy, he should also know why humans cry.

[–] Heisenberg (6282) 4 years ago

T1000 glitching after the liquid nitrogen is a great motivation, they should have expanded on that or kept it in every version, I wish he had some of that glitching while torn apart before falling in the furnace, it would be perfectly acceptable.
The way it is in the theatrical version, it looks like he's in pain from the granade...

[–] wearsalan (5554) 4 years ago

Some fine points. Just don't expect too any on here to agree with you.

[–] Heisenberg (6282) 4 years ago

Yeah ok, but this is not a perfect movie, I think everybody agrees.
It's still awesome, one of my favorites, but what can I say, I'm a perfectionist.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

I agree.

T2 was the downfall of the series but ppl have their rose tinted glasses on to see it. Reminds them of the "good old dayz in the summer of 91!" lmao.

[–] crc32 (2584) 4 years ago

A lot of us saw both films in the cinema. These aren't rose tinted glasses the second film was a major improvement on a movie that was also very good to begin with. T2 represents one of the times when movies began resurging from lame to awsome. Like the late 70s early 80s
(triggered by Star Wars) and again in the early 90s(films like Jurassic park and Terminator 2. etc). Hollywood actually needs another resurgence. We have been in the lame side of the movie cycle for too long now.

[–] ebhaynz (3525) 4 years ago

This spectacular sci-fi action movie vaulted movie-making into a whole new era and you're complaining that both John and T1000 try to get to Sarah at the same time?
I guess it would have been better if T1000 got to her first and a couple hours later John arrives but can't get through the yellow police "Crime Scene" tape to see his mum in seventy pieces.

[–] GreenGoblinsOck8 (7393) 4 years ago

I don't feel like going into the other questions since some of them are really already answered. But the Terminator smiling at John makes more sense in the extended cut where John tells it to smile in an earlier scene. Also the T-1000 obviously received a ton of damage from the grenade round. It's not like the other times it was shot with a gun where it just did a tiny bit of damage and could heal from it right away. I will say some things are clearer in the extended cut. Like the T-1000 glitching so he tries to get Sarah to call John. Heck, that scene shouldn't have been included in the theatrical since there's only one glitching scene that is too vague for the audience to know what's going on. Frankly I prefer the extended cut. Some people can't stand the smiling scene I mentioned but I like it.

[–] Heisenberg (6282) 4 years ago

Like I stated above, the extra glitching moments would have helped the idea that it was already running into problems. I would have had the glitching go off once the granade explodes and he's standing half blown, that's the moment where it was needed to sell the idea.
The way it is now it seems like this invincible machine is all of a sudden in trouble because it's been about 2 hours and the movie needs to end.

[–] crc32 (2584) 4 years ago

We can agree on that. I'm not sure why cameron opted to remove those glitch scenes. During the grenadfe scene I never got the impression that the T2 was in pain more like he was loosing control. IE before he fell he was loosing his balance. The sounds he made I always assumed was just his failing audio system rather then crying in pain. When he fell into the molten steel the trashing just seemed like violent convulsions. I didn't read any pain or emotion just involuntary spasms.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

Haha you’re an IDIOT. Some of those points are just moronic. The manure truck hahaha. The escape plan comment hahaha
Get a job dude then get a life