I just watched Undiscovered Country for the first time since I was a kid and remembered the questions I had back then.
#1 Why was it so easy to detect the cloaked Bird of Prey by using its exhaust gases? Wouldn't they have figured that trick out decades earlier?
#2 Why were there phasers in the kitchen anyway and since when did firing one set off all the alarms?
Those questions and lots of others have had some of us scratching our heads over this movie for twenty years.
Basically, they all have the same answer: the movie was conceived and written pretty sloppily.
----
Lazy + smart = efficient.
1: they never had occasion to need to search for exhaust before. When in battle, the BoP has to uncloak, making its location known. When it was cloaked, the feds never knew it was there to go looking for it. This seemed to be the first time since "Balance of Terror" they knew one was there and cloaked. (best B.S. answer I can come up with)
2: phasers should be present in most locations of a ship, galley included. Why an alarm goes off is because cooking with phasers is prohibited on the ship and so the only reason to shoot one in the galley is when there is an enemy present, hence the alarm. (best B.S. answer I can come up with)
My "#3" key is broken so I'm putting one here so i can cut & paste with it.
2: phasers should be present in most locations of a ship, galley included. Why an alarm goes off is because cooking with phasers is prohibited on the ship and so the only reason to shoot one in the galley is when there is an enemy present, hence the alarm.
Not bad, not bad. Still, I think we have to acknowledge that picking one up and firing it without warning across a room full of people (and melting a pot full of food) is a fairly silly and dangerous way to demonstrate a point that she says Chekov already knows anyway.
Her way of explaining the point is odd too: "As you know, Commander Chekov, no one can fire an unauthorized phaser aboard a starship." First of all, yes, they can; she just did. Second, surely the phaser itself is "authorized," or it wouldn't be there; it's the firing that isn't authorized. So presumably what she means is that if someone fires a phaser on a starship without authorization, alarms go off.
And even that turns out later to be malarkey, when we find out that a phaser set to stun can be fired without setting off any alarms.
In short, it's an ad hoc device introduced for the sole purpose of preserving two pairs of gravity boots, and not even maintained consistently at that because they introduced another round of ad-hockery to allow Burke and Samno to be killed.
----
Lazy + smart = efficient.
ALL valid points, Spifflock
what's involved with authorizing a phaser anyway? I'd imagine any security guard could do so. and anytime in a yellow alert, perhaps. i would think Velaris might have clearance enough to authorize a phaser..
But yeah, all just plot devices set up to make the foot joke.
My "#3" key is broken so I'm putting one here so i can cut & paste with it.
but later we find
A stun setting is allowed
When the plot requires
Phasers in galley
in case ship is taken and
only Rybeck is left
I grow more tired
Minute by minute. I hope
It won't last too long
A better question is why Valeris has to explain about phasers and alarms to Chekov. He's been in Starfleet 30+ years, he doesn't know this? I realize someone has to be the audience surrogate but why one of the senior officers? Why not some wetnosed Ensign?
A better question is why Valeris has to explain about phasers and alarms to Chekov.
Heh.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102975/board/nest/208601531?d=209688421#2 09688421
----
Lazy + smart = efficient.
3) When the assassins beam back from Gorkon's ship, they have control of the transporter, and apparently (since nobody ever says Hey, let's check the transporter records) it's not keeping track of who uses it when and for what. So why don't they turn around right then and dispose of their "incriminating footwear" by beaming it into deep space, widest possible dispersion?
----
Lazy + smart = efficient.
It's a "mystery"
A "locked room," puzzle, except
The room's full of holes
I'll say it again
Who thought that a "whodunit"
Was the way to go?
Agataha Christie
And Star Trek? They thought it a
Good combination?
I grow more tired
Minute by minute. I hope
It won't last too long
Agatha Christie,
Mr. Spock, Sherlock Holmes, and
Ten Little Klingons.
----
Lazy + smart = efficient.
Hard to believe that the transporter keeps no records of who it beamed over, since it has to make an exact pattern of whoever it transports.
"Oh no...they sent the wrong Spock!"
Hard to believe that the transporter keeps no records of who it beamed over, since it has to make an exact pattern of whoever it transports.
Well, that can't be right, because that would mean there's a plot hole in this movie.
----
Lazy + smart = efficient.
Not really...if you think about it...they (being the conspirators -- probably Valeris) edited the inventory log to show that two torpedoes had been fired...surely she thought well enough ahead to alter the transporter log too...
"Fat, drunk, and stupid so no way to go through life, son."
Not really...if you think about it...they (being the conspirators -- probably Valeris) edited the inventory log to show that two torpedoes had been fired...surely she thought well enough ahead to alter the transporter log too...
And if you think about it a little further (or bother to read my earlier post), you'll realize that if they could do that, they could also have beamed the gravity boots off the ship and then altered the records about that. And in that case, the fact that they didn't would constitute a plot hole. Kinda the point I was making.
----
Lazy + smart = efficient.
They could have been transported by the Bird of Prey. If it had enough power to fire while cloaked, it stands to reason it could transport as well.
shareThat was my thought. They didn't use the Enterprise's transporters, they used the Bird of Prey's. After all they don't want to risk beaming aboard the Enterprise and have witnesses in the transporter room. They probably beamed directly into their crew quarters.
After all they don't want to risk beaming aboard the Enterprise and have witnesses in the transporter room. They probably beamed directly into their crew quarters.
I might buy that if the film itself hadn't shown them beaming back to the transporter room on the Enterprise -- as confirmed by Chekov's later finding Klingon blood on one of the transporter pads. As it is, though, they did exactly what you say they shouldn't have done, and if the BoP was operating the transporter, they were risking detection needlessly.
----
Lazy + smart = efficient.
Oh yeah, you're right, they did show that. LOL. Stupid script.
They could have been transported by the Bird of Prey. If it had enough power to fire while cloaked, it stands to reason it could transport as well.
That's not inconceivable, but we appear to see the Enterprise's own transporters activate. And if the BoP was doing the beaming, why did they need to be on the Enterprise's transporter pads? Wouldn't that have posed an unnecessary risk of being spotted?
Moreover, even if that were the case, it would exacerbate the problem with the gravity boots. Why didn't the BoP just beam the "incriminating footwear" off the ship after the assassins were done with them?
One way or another, somebody somewhere had control of a transporter whose records Splock Holmes couldn't check in order to find out who the assassins were. Dumping the boots should have been easy.
----
Lazy + smart = efficient.
THis movie asks us to believe that someone fires at the Klingon ship from below the Enterprise and that the Enterprise crew couldn't prove that they didn't fire. Give me a freakin' break.
BTW, do Volaré, the Romulan Ambassador and Admiral Cartwright get sent to Rura Penthé?
"Oh no...they sent the wrong Spock!"
THis movie asks us to believe that someone fires at the Klingon ship from below the Enterprise and that the Enterprise crew couldn't prove that they didn't fire.
Yeah, it's absolutely ridiculous.
In TOS (especially "Court Martial") and TSFS, whenever they need to check something, they just play back their security videos. In TVH Starfleet even has footage that shows the destruction of the Enterprise from a POV outside the ship. Are we seriously expected to believe that nobody has any visual records that show the photon torpedoes originating from below the ship? And even if those were altered, surely the records of their activity on the bridge would show that they hadn't fired on Kronos One.
----
Lazy + smart = efficient.
I hate to say it, but I enjoyed this movie a lot more than I did the latest episode of "Plothole Detectives."
hkfilmnews.blogspot.com
porfle.blogspot.com
THANK YOU.
shareIn one of TOS episodes, Yeoman Rand said she used a phaser in the galley to heat coffee. We're supposed to infer that phasers set to kill set off the alarm.
George Carlin: It's all bullsh-t and it's bad for ya.
about No #1 Its was so easy because its after all a star ship , when at impulse it consumes regular fuel and that fuel creates the gasses that are detected. Nothing in this movie indicates that they have not indicated this trick earlier , the reason why it takes them some time to connect the dots is because cloaked kingon ships , cannot fire hence not the need to attack a cloaked ship, do not forget that Federation is an organisation of peace, science and exploration not of attack.
#2 Phasers are all over the ship in the case of an enemy boarding party appearing at random locations. You would not expect a boarding party to teleport at the places where is armed personel would you ? Concerning the alarm there can be many different ways to set an alarm , could be as well a silent one or one that informs only the executive personel.
I am not saying that there is not plot holes in this movie, all I am saying is that I can find plot holes in your plot holes. To really make a solid script would require so much explanation that would ruin the story , this is why movie makers do not care so much about plot wholes also known as "artistic licence".
Why was it so easy to hit a cloaked Bird of Prey?A better question is, why was it so hard? The shots the cloaked ship fired had a straight line trajectory, and it didn't dart to a different position after firing. It should be child's play to take note of the direction in which the shots that hit the Enterprise came from, and then return fire in that same direction.